Are people finally starting to accept Primaris!?

[Ishagu]

I made a topic similar to this about a year ago, and perhaps the subject was still a bit touchy back then as it led to some severe arguing. Fast forward to today I believe the attitudes are starting to shift, albeit slowly. So... let's keep this civil.

 

I can accept that Primaris might have been a shock to the system of long term hobbyists when they were first unveiled. I certainly wasn't happy myself and I remember it very clearly!

 

Rewind back in time a few years. 7th edition was starting to wind down and the game was a bloated, broken mess - magnitudes worse than anything today. I had literally just completed a massive re-build of my extensive Ultramarines army. I had fallen in love with the Heresy era Mk4 armours and had painfully replaced most of the infantry in my army with these more exotic looking Astartes. I was also a big collector of Forgeword and had invested in multiple vehicles (I was also playing a lot of 30k back then too).

One day I stopped by my local GW and saw that the store manager was re-basing the store's Astartes army; He was putting every model on a raised base. I asked why he was doing this but he couldn't tell me. This was mere days before the Primaris reveal and I believe many of the store managers had been briefed about the huge release. He was literally trying to raise the Astartes to the same height as the up-coming Primaris. Funny enough he had only just completed the army – same as me with the Ultras...

 

The big reveal happened and at first I didn't know how to feel. I was both upset and mildly in disbelief and that feeling continued until I saw the models in person. That's when things changed for me and I decided to take the plunge.

As we all remember the rules were not particularly exciting when they first dropped - The Primaris were absolutely not required for an Astartes army to function, and the model line was extremely limited on top of that. I was actually grateful for this! I knew that this wouldn't be the case forever, and it allowed me to collect the army at a leisurely pace as there was no game related need to include the models or rush. Gradually over the course of a year I amassed a big army and continued to add to it as new things were released. I now find myself with over 4000 points of fully painted Primaris and have enjoyed using them very much - especially with the new codex.

 

I think a lot of people were upset or angry with the release and I do understand the feeling, however after two years I firmly believe it should be subsiding or even gone. I think GW focused heavily on the Ultras for a long time and that also upset people. The Primaris and the Ultramarines were merged as a single enemy of the lore and hobby in people's minds, even though this was not going to be the case in the long term - as we can evidently see now.

I also think that the lack of variety was turning people off as well, but again that was only ever going to be a temporary state for the Primaris. The old range wasn't released in its final state from the start - it began with a few basic kits and it grew over many years and releases. The new range was never going to compete with this in terms of sheer variety out of the gate. It's the same with the lore.

 

The new codex has been a great success for the hobby and fans of Astartes. The book is high in quality and powerful (perhaps too powerful) and the supplements are allowing for more unique ways to play the various chapters than ever before. Finally they are getting the lore and rules support they deserve and also quality, unique models in most cases. I think this is finally starting to separate the Primaris from the hated Ultras in people's minds lol.

 

So, more than two years after Primaris were revealed. After many months of complaining from certain parts of the community, after much rage and ager, are we finally starting to see the community shift?

I think so! I'm seeing a lot more topics discussing the Primaris units that aren't being derailed and far less hostility, and the chapter unique models have been very well received by the vast majority - and that is not something that typically happens with a Primaris release!

 

Thoughts?

[MegaVolt87]

Yeah for me, was a bit of a shock with primaris. I only just started to do loyalists since the new SM dex. I had no interest in them initially as they seemed a square peg in a round hole. They fit way better into the range now. Plus I am fixing elements I dislike as I built my hobby skills by being mainly a CSM player. There is plenty to dislike about the actual models sure, but I feel not enough people are putting up to fix them, let alone give them a chance. I can't fault their new rules now either. The lore how they were first introduced is like fan fiction, though it seems to be turning around and making improvements. I honestly can't truly accept them, but have made my peace with the direction SM are going. Its weird, I like and hate them at the same time, yet I am still going to do an army of them with just primaris. The best I can give them is back handed complements I guess. 

[Lucerne]

No. The  fans of actual Marines are just taking refuge in better written pastures (Heresy),are in hibernation/shifted focus until a real Marine release comes along, or have given up on the hobby outright.

 

A reminder Primaris are expected to be the mainstay of a force but can't ride in any vehicles worth a damn, have no real weapon options, are missing most of the Marine arsenal, still have no real close combat units, and all around are a cobbled together, half-baked mess of a subfaction years into a release schedule that showered them with pointless release after pointless release. Even units they've planned out, and that obviously fill at least a few of the inelegant cavities in Primaris as an army - Overlord dropship says hi- are still nowhere to be found. All this despite cannibalizing the entire screentime and release schedule of the Astartes factions.

 

It took them this long to release something halfway decent as a unit that isn't the power shorts brigade no one uses and the Totally-Not-Tacticals, and to make the obvious cash grabs with a mere handful of Primaris faction HQs.

 

If people aren't talking about the half-baked joke that is Primaris as a subfaction, it's because they've given up hope of GW getting on with things in a reasonable timeframe.

 

Incredibly, GW seems to finally realize that fans want Marines that look like Marines with proper detail and classic design elements and iconography. Give them another few years and maybe they'll get around to reinventing the wheel and dropping this tunnel vision on the Intercessor/Reiver design eyesores outright while bringing back the real power armour models. Even their artists are getting the hint, dropping the Intercessor look, and just cribbing more and more from the real Marines for the designs.

 

I'd talk about the compelling, believable and story driven lore for them at this point- if any of it existed.

[Dagoth Ur]

Hypothesis: The reason why chapter-specific primaris miniatures/characters, along with Intercessor/hellblasters and arguably aggressors, have been so well received is because they do not stray as far from standard space marine design philosophy in terms of silhouette as the majority of the other primaris miniatures does. Personally, I am a big fan of the regular Tacticus armor and the non-potbellied gravis armour of the new characters, because this is what space marines are to me: big, lumbering, though, somewhere inbetween storm-trooper and knight in design and with large, empty panels for freehands and transfers (Much like terminators and regular tacticals).

On the other hand, I am not a fan of anything Phobos related. The change in shin armour and asymmetric shoulder armour just breaks up the familiar space marine silhouette too heavily for my taste (Personally, I have taken to using regular tacticus armor and transplanting helmets/weapons/markings and use them as reavers/infiltrators). Similarly with the Omnis armour and the Inceptors, it just strays too far from the familiar silhouette of the space marine for my taste and thus I will not be including them in my army.

That said, I've been on board with the concept of Primaris from day 1, everything that pushes space marines towards better scale and more realistic proportions is good in my book and I will happily financially support that with my purchases. Currently I am just sitting and twirling my thumbs until a larger wave of Gravis and Intercessor kits comes out.

[chapter master 454]

I accept primaris as the models generally look good (I even like interceptors, fight me) and they have been a boon to marines as a whole HOWEVER my discontent with them lies not to their fault.

 

GW not giving us a clean answer on Old Marines vs. Primaris and if they are getting axed or not. I want my final, fully fleshed out answer and truth from GW about the story of Primaris, not market talk. Give us the truth well and true. Were they planning Primaris from the start of their inception or was it something they figured later? After all we now know from the Reivers it is models first then rules second, but was it a case they wanted new models for new rules or was there any possibility of just making these new models for the current marines and upping their stats to what we see primaris at.

 

I want the truth. Were Primaris a remainder of the old GW where cash grabs and bad rule writing was rife or were they an actual product from the ground up designed to ALWAYS been like this. I want the full truth: Are they in addition to old marines or are they replacing them?

 

Because I checked the new codex, funny how they dodge the question of new marine creation process and what reason they would have to not make a primaris marine. Literally nothing about this or the process. Like they are dodging the question trying to hide the axe behind their back. If they weren't axing marines then why hasn't there been more lore about marines REFUSING the rubicon. After all, Calgar, Tigerius, an off-hand mention captain in ultramarines, Shrike and Korsarro ALL WENT PRIMARIS. Why?

I reserve judgement, the salamander and imperial fist codex may shed light on why lysander and he'stan didn't make the crossing, maybe mirroring the chapters heritage to when the codex astartes was revealed and their refusal of it.

 

I want answers, ALL OF THEM. Not some, not honey words nor words smithed of silver, I want the truth and full disclosure before I fully accept them in their entire form. As how the primarchs who resisted the codex, I too will still hold final judgement. I will use them, I enjoy the models and the stats but their lore and possible implications irk the warp out of me.

[Captain_Krash]

No.

 

Krash 

[Leif Bearclaw]

So, more than two years after Primaris were revealed. After many months of complaining from certain parts of the community, after much rage and ager, are we finally starting to see the community shift?

I think so! I'm seeing a lot more topics discussing the Primaris units that aren't being derailed and far less hostility, and the chapter unique models have been very well received by the vast majority - and that is not something that typically happens with a Primaris release!

 

Thoughts?

You sure about that? We're still getting fairly regular Primaris threads. The last one on this sub was only shut down last week, and had fallen into the same old back and forth. You were even posting in it with the same old 'Primaris are the future, accept or move' and 'Primaris can't suck, GW are doing well' posts. Seems to me precious little has changed. If anything, the new dex has actually raised another issue with Primaris, that they're already a surprisingly bloated range, with a lot of overlapping troops while still having some major holes.

 

Really there were 3 'camps' about Primaris (basically 'Primaris are amazing', Primaris are '' and 'X about Primaris is decent, Y sucks'), and tbh I see precious little evidence of a mass switch in opinions. Closest you might find is that people are tired of the same old arguments, so they just don't bother posting.

[Marshal Loss]

I do wish you'd reflect on the extent of your bias from time to time. Even in this post you state your belief that people's opinions should be subsiding. If you want to have constructive discussions, consider your phrasing.

 

Anyway, my take:

 

Primaris lore: terrible. Indefensible.

Primaris models: sometimes good. They're getting better as they add more character, but I still miss old armour patterns, I still miss old units, and I still feel that they tried to reinvent the wheel and were forced down unnecessary avenues in an attempt to differentiate their new products from what came before.

 

So my opinion hasn't changed, really. I still firmly believe GW made a mistake introducing Primaris the way they did, and that the direction they have taken 8th edition more broadly betrays a lot of what made 40k so fantastic in the past. But many of the setting's core pillars are still in place and a combination of great new models for factions I love & good novels (e.g. SOTE by ADB) have kept me around. But I certainly feel no obligation to bow down and accept my new Primaris overlords as the flawless harbingers of a new golden age.

[Evil Eye]

Primaris don't bother me so much. I think it's an interesting concept that whilst handled badly in some bits of fluff, could pave the way for some much better fluff (I still think the "retirement"/"civil war" thing has a lot of potential) and the models are mostly very nice. I think the Intercessor base design is actually pretty great, and as a basis for true-scaled conversions they're awesome.

 

There's things I don't like (the overly toyetic nature of some of the kits *COUGH* Flying autocannon dudes, Dreadnought lite etc *COUGH* and I think their vehicles thus far have been a bit daft. But I don't hate them and I think they have a place in 40K. From what I've seen I think GW is self-aware enough to realize the implications of "Shiny new Marines" hence established characters (Gabriel Seth notably) outright saying "Yeah this isn't cool, I don't like it", so I do have faith that GW will pump out some decent fluff with them in.

TLDR: In theory I have no issue at all, in execution there's work to be done but there's potential.

[Lord Blackwood]

I  enjoy the range , I  also love  the old marine range particularly the MK3 armor  , I  have painted two legions ( VI  and VII )  as well as a plethora of vehicles for the old range. 
I have painted about 3000 points of Primaris with another 2000 or so in progress 

Would like to see Primaris get a dedicated close combat unit with weapons options ( and defensive options )  not glass hammer but like , hammer and shield / sword and shield / SPEAR and shield 

I would also love to see a battle tank  in the cost range of the predator 

The slow roll  is a bit painful , but I have faith that we will get the tanks and the close combat units  eventually. 

The new transport is certainly a nice step in the right direction as well. 

[havlar]

Our hobby has many aspects - gaming, modelling, lore.

I'm not a gamer, so no opinion about primaris rules.

 

From the modelling perspective, Primaris brought us GW-made true scale marines. Some of the models I really like, some are just too weird or outlandish for me.

The other issue is that a rapid change in scale effectively invalidates the existing armies from modelling perspective, and predicting that GW will continue to expand the Primaris offering, one should no longer expect any large releases for "classic" space marines. And now, that after some time has passed since the Primaris release, those who had to vent have vented already, and (like a poster above notices) some of the disgruntled users have come to terms what is happening right now, for example - by posting less.

 

In the end, if one does not like the hobby... there are always other things to do, wh40k-related or not.

 

Personally, I don't mine Primaris. I just like my 60 pained figurines and the ones that are bit odd in size would look ... odd

[m0nolith]

No, even though I want to like them, the releases so far have left a lot to be desired.

 

On the aesthetics end, save for some models in MkX armour like Intercessors and the new Salamanders model, the majority of the line I'v disliked so far, especially the vehicles which look like something out of GI Joe. No amount of time is going to change the fact that the rest of the range looks poor in my eyes.

 

On the lore end...ugh, there's nothing I'm going to say that hasn't been said before.

Is abysmal.

 

In the end if the company made models that looked cool and had good lore to back it up, I would spend money on it, something which the Primaris range so far has not done.

 

So is there a shift? Depends on what you mean by "shift".

I can see a lot of the anger has subsided because that's what always happens with situations like this in the long term, but acceptance...not really.

The models still look like they do and the Lore is still what it is, so I'm not seeing former detractors jumping on the Primaris bandwagon.

 

Which is a shame really. I want cool Primaris models and lore, but its something I just havent gotten from the range so far with the exception of a few models.

[Kolgrim DeathHowl]

I'm returning from like a 10+ year hiatus and the Primaris Marines is a super new thing to me that I don't really understand. Are they like replacing the old models or are they like a new thing that still works with the older models? I never actually played the game I was more into the hobby building, creating armies and painting them. I was just becoming a teenager when I was doing it so life ended up taking over and I had to stop doing it but now I'm in a good spot where I actually have the time and means to start up again, and there's actually a few stores that carry stuff not too far away from me making it alot easier to get back into.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

I'm just tired of repeating the same arguments over and over. Lore bad. Models meh. Not enough grit and too much heavy-handed pressure from GW to bully me into accepting them. Tying the releases so heavily to UM lore just made me like them less. In fact, the aspect of Primaris that I like the least is how every new release seems to take some epic part of old lore and take a giant dump on it. One of the coolest ideas behind dreadnoughts was that the warrior inside was an ancient pile of meat barely able to move, granted a metal shell of a body so that he could prove his devotion and fight on endlessly for thousands of years. 

 

The latest Primaris dreadnought doesn't even require the dude be wounded. It's just a damn battle suit. If we could do that the whole time then why did old dreads even exist? It's frustrating. Dreads were more than just life support, they were a vicious and tragic trade off. Now we don't need to trap dying brothers in an endless loop of pain to get our heavy walkers on field. SGT Jim Bob Mc'fly can just pilot one.

 

I'm not happy about Primaris. I don't like or except them any more than I used to. I'm just so worn down by the relentlessly bad nature of every new release. It doesn't matter what I say or do. This is what marines are now, and when old marines die out, so will my Templars.

 

Maybe I'll reach a point where I can start a Primaris force under a completely different faction. But I won't ever be able to play Primaris Templars. There's some block in the loyalty part of my brain that will never let that be a thing. As a result, I've been enjoying a lot more Sigmar lately. Blades of Khorne, Beasts of Chaos, Sylvaneth, Gloomspite Trogs. New and exciting ventures that don't make me angry to think about. I don't want to play another faction. i want to Crusade with my boys.

[Lucerne]

And as a bitter postscript, all they had to do to avoid alienating their biggest fanbase was one set that had "Primaris" Aquila-armoured marines. One set with traditional Marine leg designs and maybe torsos.

 

One damn troop set in between the endless waves of forgettable Lieutenants.

 

Bad lore and bad rules can be forgiven or mitigated without GW lifting a finger, but screwing over the fanbase on the models front is how you kill off interest in what you're hawking.

[Adrax Agatone]

No... and yes.

My reasons echo much of what is above. I believe GW missed the simplest way to make Primaris acceptable. They should have been created by the Emperor's decree and boldly announced to the chapters by His word alone, not as some Primarch's and AdMech's super-secret-science project. By the Emperor's Command, love it or leave it, the Emperor hath spoken! Then let's have the rollout of Primaris tactical, assault, and devastator squads. 

I walked away from the hobby for this nonsense, but I'm back because I love 40K. I'm still going to lean toward "classic marines" unless my chapter's new supplement says otherwise.
"Even in model dissatisfaction duty does not end."

[Azekai]

I picked up a few reivers and intercessors for a Mortifactors killteam. I don’t hate the stock minis, but I am going to make them more appropriately gothic by strapping bone relics onto shoulder pads and whatnot.

 

I would never want a whole army of the things, and all the new marine vehicles released in the last few years are stupefyingly ugly. The grav tank looks like a flying boot.

 

From a lore perspective, l would rather the Primaris marines be a precious and deadly elite used to bolster a faltering Imperium, rather than the new hotness turned status quo.

[Legionnaire of the VIIth]

Aesthetic wise I actually like the look of Mk X power armor, so there is that I guess.

 

Lore, well everything I can say about it has been said already by others in who knows how many threads and some of those probably did a better job of explaining it than I would. To be clear I'm not a fan of it. Sure they are working to make it more palatable but I would rather not dine on it if possible. Then again I never was a big fan of the Imperium of the 41st Millennium. The only Astartes and Imperium armies I have had are for the Horus Heresy, so I just take refuge there and ignore Primaris for the most part. As my 40k armies are Eldar I don't mind taking my frustrations out on the Primaris by killing them.

[Brother Tyler]

Do we really need to stir this pot?