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Thoughts on Grey Knights and the future


Ichar

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I can see a number of challenges in terms of codex design for introducing Primaris that are peculiar to Grey Knights. So far, GW has shied away from producing Primaris units that are direct replacements for First-Born units. Grey Knight units are much less diverse than those of other chapters, so there seem to be fewer niches into which Primaris units could be inserted, without the new units ending up looking out of keeping with the existing design. The basic Primaris GK troop would be a Tacticus-armoured marine with a Cawl-pattern storm-bolter (R 30” AP -1) and a Nemesis force-weapon: lose either the wrist-mounted gun or the NFW and you’ve got an Intercessor with silver paint. However, you’ve now got a Strike Squad with 2W and 2A: except we’ve already got that, with the bonus of a 2+/5++ save. We also have to face the numbers problem: a Primaris GK army is likely to have even fewer models on the tabletop than it does now.

 

Some ideas that might be welcome: Inceptors with twin assault psycannons or psilencers; a fire-support Squad with an anti-tank variant of the psycannon; Aggressors with twin incinerators and a heavy daemon-hammer.

 

I really like the idea of Inceptors with psycannons. I kind of want to model that up now.

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For the millionth time... this isn't the end for Grey Knights.

 

Psychic Awakening will pep them up. It's coming. Just wait.

Grey Knights are all about being Psychic. Of COURSE Psychic Awakening will give them something - They're on the update list.

I’ll take that bet. I’ll bet we get nothing more than an afterthought of effort.

Edited by Holier Than Thou
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As interesting it is to imagine how cool Primaris models can be with GK custom armour/weapons. It also has highlighted, for me at least...would that make my current 4K points worth of GK models anymore viable in the future?

 

Grey Knight Agrressors and Grey Knight Inceptors doesn't actually make our purifiers, purgation, or interceptors any more effective on the table. Sure, business-wise, it would be great for GW to get new and old GK players to BUY a whole new Primaris GK army with more powerful weapons and vehicles - and that would at least keep GKs in the lore / production line more relevant / updated.

 

Though that does not intrinsically mean our current models will get actually better logically, I mean surely its much easier for GW to keep our psycannons that same bad profile now, while make the future "primaris psycannon" strong and effective, than make our psycannon effective and than make the primaris variant as good or even better (but also be different again), and then promote sales for the new.

 

As to future thoughts of GK models I actually have now, I am observing the rule updates of non-primaris models of say SoS, Inquisition and BT, to see the current efforts of GW as a basis for my expectations.

Edited by Waking Dreamer
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I don't want to rain on a parade here, but GK will not be getting the changes they NEED to be active in PA.  They will at most get a few new rules, but they will still be overcosted Elite Melee armies with extremely weak psychic abilities.  PA isn't going to fix their weapons, their stats, and their costs, lack of units, and CP needs.  

 

They are the Tempestus Scions of the Space Marines.  Extremely niche army with a few models that do one thing and thats it.  They kill daemons, and they mostly suck at that too in comparison to the new codex's.  GW has no interest in pushing old models up a hill that is currently occupied by Iron Hands, Raven Guard, and White Scars.

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As interesting it is to imagine how cool primaries models can be with GK custom armour/weapons. It also has highlighted, for me at least...would that make my current 4K points worth of GK models anymore viable in the future?

It's an excellent question. It's possible; I can imagine new models patching holes in the codex which in turn could allow the existing models to focus on what they're good at.

 

If I look at the primaris range, it's actually the Vanguard stuff that stands out most to me, not the Agressors or Inceptors etc. Snipers, infiltration, DS-denial and objective holding, along with long-range anti-tank are all things that will open space for heavy-hitters to do their thing.

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Terminators are a really iconic model for the GK could it be possible they get the first "Terminator" armored Primaris?

 

I could totally get behind this

 

Krash

I'd definitely support that:yes:

=Deathwing wish to know your location=

 

That being said, yes. I could see Grey Knights getting the first Primaris 'Terminator' unit (even though I'd prefer Dark Angels to get that..... Eh, they'd probably get the first Primaris bikers :lol:)

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 GW has no interest in pushing old models up a hill that is currently occupied by Iron Hands, Raven Guard, and White Scars.

 

As an observation there does seem to be a difference in  the effort of rules update between units or armies where GW can push new models for players to buy (eg primaris armies), and those that dont have new models in the works (sisters of silence), whos rules is virtually unchanged since the index. Waiting to see  GWs treatment of Inquisition in November's White Dwarf. I wouldn't  mind if they put Inq back together with GK if it makes them put more effort in their combined book as it would mean the potential of 2 player bases buying it.

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I love our OG Grey Knights, but hey if they throw some Aegis armored Super Saiyan pure Primaris terminators our way. They can take all my money.:biggrin.:

 

Lets also remember that Grey Knights should be receiving some (probably small) updates due to Psychic Awakening. 

Edited by Watcher
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Considering the abundance of chapter specific rules that have been the new Space Marine codices and their suppliments I'm curious if the same will occur for Grey Knights. Maybe even pull some inspiration from previous editions such as giving Grey Knights Shrouding and true grit back in their current renditions; granting knights a -1 BS to opponents firing on them as a target and their storm bolters treated as pistol 2 or 4. Could even bring back psychic quake where strike squads make a no deepstrike zone around them. But lets wait and see.

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The only problem with introducing Primaris Terminators (outside of Grey Knights) is that they would end up invalidating the old Terminators which so many in the SM player base still buy regularly. In Grey Knights alone, I imagine it would be a variant  Aegis armor much like the Phobos armor variant which could probably incorporate a similar invulnerable save much like the Terminus Crux. That way they wouldn't invalidate the terminators via wounds and they would still have the deepstrike ability like a Strike Squad. Primaris with a stock (5+) invul. is still pretty decent and I wouldn't mind.

The only problem is they wouldn't be Terminators which is no fun! :yucky:

Food for thought.

Edited by Watcher
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Terminators in general are a sticking point with the SM product lines as a whole. So far there is nothing in the Primaris line up that would serve as a close analog, and no major reason to believe that GW is going to do a general refresh of the terminator models and/or datasheets.

 

Given the prominence of terminators in the GK, it leaves Chapter 666 in an awkward place in GWs product management schema.

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I would really love, REALLY LOVE, to dust off my squads of Paladins and Strikes, and somehow slot them into a list of Custodes....but it can't happen.  Can you imagine the psychic whining that would occur if they were to give a primaris supplement to the GK, the way the supplements are going?

 

ALL GK GET +20 to all cast rolls

ALL GK ARE NOW S24, with 12 attacks

ALL GK now have a 72" smite that does D6 mortal wounds.

 

No thank you.  I enjoy playing my severely gimped boys in Silver, just as a silliness at times.  They are the literal Dan Hibiki of 40k.  If you beat an opponent with them, your opponent has to sell all his stuff and take up knitting.

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I think the other thing is, GW has been trying to distance from the HORRENDOUS Matt Ward-tainted fluff in the past years.

 

And Grey Knights were horrifically tainted by him, so they're probably trying to figure out how to de-Marty Stu the entire army.

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