Thoughts on Grey Knights and the future

[Andarius the Red]

So, once again the GWs has gotten themselves into a fluff corner with the GK.  

 

According to the fluff, there aren't any other new models.  And Cawl doesn't have their "stuff/tech/geneseed/dooberhickey?" so he can't "improve on the design".  They are supposed to be thousands of years more advanced than anyone else, because of how time flows there.  So either GW pulls more Wardian fluff out of left field and gives them Primaris, or this is all they are getting save for maybe a Character release or FW.  

 

As to new codexes and re-release, PA is still ongoing.  It's very possible they will get SOMETHING.  But if there was a new codex coming down the line we'd have heard something by now.  Hell we had Sisters model leaks in 2018.  

 

If you go by that logic we'd have heard something about the rest of the forces too! Currently we haven't.

 

Book 2 of PA has the fighting focus in the Segmentum Solar where it'll involve the Sisters of Battle, Black Templar, White Scars, Salamanders, Imperial Guard, Titan legion (loyal and traitor), Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors, World Eaters, Emperor's Children and Word Bearers.

 

Although we're fully made aware of Sisters getting a plastic overhaul and the inquisition in White Dwarf in November plus the latest updates to Salamanders and White Scars, the rest are at best a mystery. There has been very little to nothing about the chaos forces being introduced and whether there will be updates of any kind whatsoever. If anything GW is playing things pretty close to the chest in terms of what to leak and what to keep hidden. The reason they introduced the Sisters so early most likely would be to build up anticipation for the release due solely because of their transition to plastics. which is a pretty big deal! Grey Knights went through the same hype when they too jumped from metal to plastic.

 

The remaining forces on the list do not have that huge a leap in progress, they're all mostly plastic now. The only major changes they would get would be rule updates and maybe a new kit or two.

 

That also whittles down the remaining forces to look forward to. After book 2 the remaining armies to get updates would be Tyranids, Tau, Necrons, Genestealer Cults, Deathwatch, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Orks, Thousand Sons, Daemons and of course Grey knights.

 

I figure we'll probably end up being book 4 or 5 after lines are drawn over who fights whom in the next books.

[Watcher]

 

So, once again the GWs has gotten themselves into a fluff corner with the GK.  

 

According to the fluff, there aren't any other new models.  And Cawl doesn't have their "stuff/tech/geneseed/dooberhickey?" so he can't "improve on the design".  They are supposed to be thousands of years more advanced than anyone else, because of how time flows there.  So either GW pulls more Wardian fluff out of left field and gives them Primaris, or this is all they are getting save for maybe a Character release or FW.  

 

As to new codexes and re-release, PA is still ongoing.  It's very possible they will get SOMETHING.  But if there was a new codex coming down the line we'd have heard something by now.  Hell we had Sisters model leaks in 2018.  

 

If you go by that logic we'd have heard something about the rest of the forces too! Currently we haven't.

 

Book 2 of PA has the fighting focus in the Segmentum Solar where it'll involve the Sisters of Battle, Black Templar, White Scars, Salamanders, Imperial Guard, Titan legion (loyal and traitor), Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors, World Eaters, Emperor's Children and Word Bearers.

 

Although we're fully made aware of Sisters getting a plastic overhaul and the inquisition in White Dwarf in November plus the latest updates to Salamanders and White Scars, the rest are at best a mystery. There has been very little to nothing about the chaos forces being introduced and whether there will be updates of any kind whatsoever. If anything GW is playing things pretty close to the chest in terms of what to leak and what to keep hidden. The reason they introduced the Sisters so early most likely would be to build up anticipation for the release due solely because of their transition to plastics. which is a pretty big deal! Grey Knights went through the same hype when they too jumped from metal to plastic.

 

The remaining forces on the list do not have that huge a leap in progress, they're all mostly plastic now. The only major changes they would get would be rule updates and maybe a new kit or two.

 

That also whittles down the remaining forces to look forward to. After book 2 the remaining armies to get updates would be Tyranids, Tau, Necrons, Genestealer Cults, Deathwatch, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Orks, Thousand Sons, Daemons and of course Grey knights.

 

I figure we'll probably end up being book 4 or 5 after lines are drawn over who fights whom in the next books.

 

The rumor is the current phase focus is Black Templars/ Sisters with an overall focus on the remaining armies of Chaos (All the old boys who didnt get new rules in the CSC). Next phase s reported to be Blood Angels and Tyranids (they've leaked a few things for 'nids like how they probably wont have any new units). The Phase featured after Christmas is supposed to be Space Wolves and Orks (This is also the last phase of Psychic Awakening). I would suspect that Grey Knights will only be getting minor tweaks in a White Dwarf OR Grey Knights wont be seeing an exclusive Codex 2.0 for awhile after.

 

Could be sooner than a full year, lads. Chins up!

(Didnt mean to quote this, but oh well.)

Edited November 2, 2019 by Watcher

[Ichar]

 

 

 

 

So, once again the GWs has gotten themselves into a fluff corner with the GK.

 

According to the fluff, there aren't any other new models. And Cawl doesn't have their "stuff/tech/geneseed/dooberhickey?" so he can't "improve on the design". They are supposed to be thousands of years more advanced than anyone else, because of how time flows there. So either GW pulls more Wardian fluff out of left field and gives them Primaris, or this is all they are getting save for maybe a Character release or FW.

 

As to new codexes and re-release, PA is still ongoing. It's very possible they will get SOMETHING. But if there was a new codex coming down the line we'd have heard something by now. Hell we had Sisters model leaks in 2018.

If you go by that logic we'd have heard something about the rest of the forces too! Currently we haven't.

 

Book 2 of PA has the fighting focus in the Segmentum Solar where it'll involve the Sisters of Battle, Black Templar, White Scars, Salamanders, Imperial Guard, Titan legion (loyal and traitor), Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors, World Eaters, Emperor's Children and Word Bearers.

 

Although we're fully made aware of Sisters getting a plastic overhaul and the inquisition in White Dwarf in November plus the latest updates to Salamanders and White Scars, the rest are at best a mystery. There has been very little to nothing about the chaos forces being introduced and whether there will be updates of any kind whatsoever. If anything GW is playing things pretty close to the chest in terms of what to leak and what to keep hidden. The reason they introduced the Sisters so early most likely would be to build up anticipation for the release due solely because of their transition to plastics. which is a pretty big deal! Grey Knights went through the same hype when they too jumped from metal to plastic.

 

The remaining forces on the list do not have that huge a leap in progress, they're all mostly plastic now. The only major changes they would get would be rule updates and maybe a new kit or two.

 

That also whittles down the remaining forces to look forward to. After book 2 the remaining armies to get updates would be Tyranids, Tau, Necrons, Genestealer Cults, Deathwatch, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Orks, Thousand Sons, Daemons and of course Grey knights.

 

I figure we'll probably end up being book 4 or 5 after lines are drawn over who fights whom in the next books.

The rumor is the current phase focus is Black Templars/ Sisters with an overall focus on the remaining armies of Chaos (All the old boys who didnt get new rules in the CSC). Next phase s reported to be Blood Angels and Tyranids (they've leaked a few things for 'nids like how they probably wont have any new units). The Phase featured after Christmas is supposed to be Space Wolves and Orks (This is also the last phase of Psychic Awakening). I would suspect that Grey Knights will only be getting minor tweaks in a White Dwarf OR Grey Knights wont be seeing an exclusive Codex 2.0 for awhile after.

 

Could be sooner than a full year, lads. Chins up!

(Didnt mean to quote this, but oh well.)

Where did you read that SW and Orks would be the last phase of Psychic Awakening”? That would leave out a lot of forces that were initially teased (Necrons, Tau, Deathwatch, Grey Knights amongst others).

 

I for one am just glad that GW sees fit to address successor chapters of both flavors of Astartes, Eldar, Blood Angels and presumably Tyranids (maybe even Orks and Space Wolves) before even looking the way of armies that generally scrape the bottom of the barrel (GK, Necrons). Other than SW and BA, the rest of those armies seem to compete just fine. Sigh.

[Watcher]

 

 

 

So, once again the GWs has gotten themselves into a fluff corner with the GK.

 

According to the fluff, there aren't any other new models. And Cawl doesn't have their "stuff/tech/geneseed/dooberhickey?" so he can't "improve on the design". They are supposed to be thousands of years more advanced than anyone else, because of how time flows there. So either GW pulls more Wardian fluff out of left field and gives them Primaris, or this is all they are getting save for maybe a Character release or FW.

 

As to new codexes and re-release, PA is still ongoing. It's very possible they will get SOMETHING. But if there was a new codex coming down the line we'd have heard something by now. Hell we had Sisters model leaks in 2018.

If you go by that logic we'd have heard something about the rest of the forces too! Currently we haven't.

 

Book 2 of PA has the fighting focus in the Segmentum Solar where it'll involve the Sisters of Battle, Black Templar, White Scars, Salamanders, Imperial Guard, Titan legion (loyal and traitor), Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors, World Eaters, Emperor's Children and Word Bearers.

 

Although we're fully made aware of Sisters getting a plastic overhaul and the inquisition in White Dwarf in November plus the latest updates to Salamanders and White Scars, the rest are at best a mystery. There has been very little to nothing about the chaos forces being introduced and whether there will be updates of any kind whatsoever. If anything GW is playing things pretty close to the chest in terms of what to leak and what to keep hidden. The reason they introduced the Sisters so early most likely would be to build up anticipation for the release due solely because of their transition to plastics. which is a pretty big deal! Grey Knights went through the same hype when they too jumped from metal to plastic.

 

The remaining forces on the list do not have that huge a leap in progress, they're all mostly plastic now. The only major changes they would get would be rule updates and maybe a new kit or two.

 

That also whittles down the remaining forces to look forward to. After book 2 the remaining armies to get updates would be Tyranids, Tau, Necrons, Genestealer Cults, Deathwatch, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Orks, Thousand Sons, Daemons and of course Grey knights.

 

I figure we'll probably end up being book 4 or 5 after lines are drawn over who fights whom in the next books.

The rumor is the current phase focus is Black Templars/ Sisters with an overall focus on the remaining armies of Chaos (All the old boys who didnt get new rules in the CSC). Next phase s reported to be Blood Angels and Tyranids (they've leaked a few things for 'nids like how they probably wont have any new units). The Phase featured after Christmas is supposed to be Space Wolves and Orks (This is also the last phase of Psychic Awakening). I would suspect that Grey Knights will only be getting minor tweaks in a White Dwarf OR Grey Knights wont be seeing an exclusive Codex 2.0 for awhile after.

 

Could be sooner than a full year, lads. Chins up!

(Didnt mean to quote this, but oh well.)

Where did you read that SW and Orks would be the last phase of Psychic Awakening”? That would leave out a lot of forces that were initially teased (Necrons, Tau, Deathwatch, Grey Knights amongst others).

 

I for one am just glad that GW sees fit to address successor chapters of both flavors of Astartes, Eldar, Blood Angels and presumably Tyranids (maybe even Orks and Space Wolves) before even looking the way of armies that generally scrape the bottom of the barrel (GK, Necrons). Other than SW and BA, the rest of those armies seem to compete just fine. Sigh.   

The Space Wolves and Ork rumor dropped a year ago and was hush hushed until their Codex release, and so given their release history they have been released commonly side by side. On a European(French) forum and a few American (I don't have a link but a Google search should turn it up quick), the last two tomes were "predicted/leaked" before release dates and has thus far been accurate. Blood Angels have also been officially teased with the re-release of Mephiston as Primaris. 

 

As for the "minor" armies included, its under general assumption that these other races will be receiving adaptions, but these adaptions will be smaller in comparison to the SM:Codex 2.0. Likely, all the new additions for those armies will be covered in upcoming White Dwarfs or Battle Boxes, much like what the Ynnari received (tackling both Eldar and Dark Eldar in one box/edition)

 

Because of such, I imagine GK (and Necrons) wont be getting the treatment they deserve until after Psychic Awakening has passed. Even though it seems rather the best time to bring them back to an acceptable power level other than being a single-function elite army. Here's to hoping.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Watcher

[The Woodsman]

Without being Grey Knights per say, and not necessarily Psychic Awakening-related, the Inquisition update (coming in November's WD) could possibly bring a nice, themed option for Grey Knight armies. If Inquisitors and their lot were to function a little like Scions and Auxilla in the Astra Militarum, or how the different Drukhari subfactions work together (without breaking Battle-forged but without getting their own faction bonus) then it could provide some interesting options. As it is the Terrify and Dominate powers (-1 Ld + no overwatch and make a character attack one of his own units, respectively) could be useful to Grey Knights - is there anything sadder than losing 2-3 Paladins on the charge? The problem is that it you don't want to be sacrificing a CP to just stick an Inquisitor in a Grey Knight army, and to be honest Acolytes are a points sink if you want to build a Vanguard. Point being its hard to fit that Inquisitor in, in a tactically-efficient manner. The return of Inquisitorial Henchmen/Stormtroopers, under similar army composition rules as stated above, could also provide some cheap screening/objective holding units to the sons of Titan.

 

This is coming from someone who played with the old Daemonhunters Codex back in 4th Edition, but to me Grey Knights and the Inquisition definitely could work together as a single faction, heck, the Inquisition should be able to integrate into any Imperium army without breaking Battle-Forged or counting as soup. Anyways we won't know until the White Dwarf drops, and I guess it isn't Grey Knight specific (and won't fix any of their inherent problems) but might open up some interesting options outside of building a straight-up soup.

 

Just my 2 cents!

[Andarius the Red]

Sisters appear to be getting some significant changes to their armored vehicles. Everything comes with a free heavy bolter now!

Edited November 6, 2019 by Andarius the Red

[Mainely Wargamming]

Sisters appear to be getting some significant changes to their armored vehicles. Everything comes with a free heavy bolter now!

 

In the words of Jake Gellenhal in Crazy, Stupid, Love: Be Better than the GAP.  A Free heavy bolter is not what we want.  A free Hurricane Bolter, now we're talking.

[Waking Dreamer]

 

Sisters appear to be getting some significant changes to their armored vehicles. Everything comes with a free heavy bolter now!

 

 

In the words of Jake Gellenhal in Crazy, Stupid, Love: Be Better than the GAP.  A Free heavy bolter is not what we want.  A free Hurricane Bolter, now we're talking.

Wasn't that Ryan Gosling?

 

Anyway, GKs don't have any unique vehicles like the SoB to get better upgrades, well the closest thing would be our twin psycannon mounted vehicles. I truly believe there was some initial plans to upgrade all the GK razorbacks and Landraiders to Twin HEAVY psycannons! This would match the FW GK dreadnought's psycannon arm upgrade to the HEAVY variant, and match the previews of the GK unit profile upgrades of the (now disappeared) Talons of the Emperor release. The price point matches the cost of the Heavy psycannon x2. Lol

[Ichar]

I just wish GW would come out and say what they think about the status of each army is in terms of competitiveness and fun. That would speak volumes about whether or not an army could expect to see improvements any time in the near future.

If they would just make a statement such as “Quit whining, Grey Knights are fun, competitive, and awesome!” then we would know. Instead, since the GK Codex was released, we get statements such as the one that said Chapter Approved has great stuff for Grey Knights, when it really didn’t change anything. I for one am tired of feeling like it is a lost cause. If we are just not going to be supported, I wish they would at least tell us.

[Aothaine]

I just wish GW would come out and say what they think about the status of each army is in terms of competitiveness and fun. That would speak volumes about whether or not an army could expect to see improvements any time in the near future.

If they would just make a statement such as “Quit whining, Grey Knights are fun, competitive, and awesome!” then we would know. Instead, since the GK Codex was released, we get statements such as the one that said Chapter Approved has great stuff for Grey Knights, when it really didn’t change anything. I for one am tired of feeling like it is a lost cause. If we are just not going to be supported, I wish they would at least tell us.

 

GW is designing armies and their rules for narrative and friendly play. So they will say every army is fun to play. In a narrative environment every army is fine. The problem comes when WAAC players enter the field. At least we have a GW that is updating the rules again. Need to remember GW had a dark age where rules updates could take years, or even decades. Cheer up. This is the best GW community outreach we have every had and it is awesome! 

 

Something else to remember is that you're playing a really niche army. Models for your army are generally not transferable to other factions like the primaris line. Knights had to wait a good long time for their update as well. Just be patient. GK 2.0 will come and will be full of nasty tactics. Keep the faith.

[Mainely Wargamming]

If GK want to ever get a fair shake, they can't be one of the first codexes out of the gate.  Those are always the weakest and prone to the worst mistakes.

[Aothaine]

If GK want to ever get a fair shake, they can't be one of the first codexes out of the gate.  Those are always the weakest and prone to the worst mistakes.

 

Or the last right before a new edition or big rules change. :D Poor CSM.

[momerathe]

I find it hard to believe that the codex publication model can continue for very long. I know it's a massive cash cow for GW, but with the frequency of updates (to other armies) errata and things like CA and psychic awakening, it's basically a living ruleset in all but name. 

[Mainely Wargamming]

Are you joking?  GW is posting record profits doing literally everything except publishing re-writes of already written codexes.  This is their entire business model now.  Until the slavering masses stop buying every stupid bit of paper the GW pushes out, they won't stop this model.  

 

Also, they will never go fully updated digital because that would destroy said model.  If they shift numbers around and re-release the books ever couple of years, with new pretty pictures, people will still buy it.  

 

PA 1 was a complete and total joke of a release, and people bought it BEFORE knowing what was in it.  Think about that.  The pre-order capitalism on display from GW is hilarious.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Brother Tyler
Profanity (concealed) removed

[Slasher956]

What I can see is GW doing a mixed approach going forward....like they did with the SM codex.

 

That is release codex, release 3 or 4 boxes / books with rules, and 2 or 3 errata and points review...then release updated codex start the cycle again. Then after 3 codecs no. 4 removes entries which are then published in a ledgends codex ...which will be reprinted in 2 years with the newer data sheets that have been removed from the current dexs

 

Now they can easily do a cheep subscription rules only app alongside this model.... £5 a month per codex...ever 4 dexs get no 5 free...supplements at £3 a month

 

Then you put a list builder app that can swap lists during games for £10 a month...,

[Andarius the Red]

There has been some sneak peaks of the new book 2: Faith and Fire for PSychic Awakening that reveals some tidbits for updates to Astartes rules. Specifically towards upgrading HQ choices to higher ranks:

 

If this is the update for ALL Astartes chapters, one would see an interesting twist in having a CHIEF Grey Knight Librarian or Brotherhood Champion of the CHAPTER! Might add more character and punch to HQ and Elites.

[Ichar]

There has been some sneak peaks of the new book 2: Faith and Fire for PSychic Awakening that reveals some tidbits for updates to Astartes rules. Specifically towards upgrading HQ choices to higher ranks:

 

If this is the update for ALL Astartes chapters, one would see an interesting twist in having a CHIEF Grey Knight Librarian or Brotherhood Champion of the CHAPTER! Might add more character and punch to HQ and Elites.

Willing to bet that this is only for the vanilla marines, not GK, DW, SW, BA, or DA. However, if the next PA book really does feature BA, that may clue us in to changes we could possibly expect.

[Slasher956]

 

There has been some sneak peaks of the new book 2: Faith and Fire for PSychic Awakening that reveals some tidbits for updates to Astartes rules. Specifically towards upgrading HQ choices to higher ranks:

If this is the update for ALL Astartes chapters, one would see an interesting twist in having a CHIEF Grey Knight Librarian or Brotherhood Champion of the CHAPTER! Might add more character and punch to HQ and Elites.

Willing to bet that this is only for the vanilla marines, not GK, DW, SW, BA, or DA. However, if the next PA book really does feature BA, that may clue us in to changes we could possibly expect.

No bet...the whc says if you use codex SM then you get these strats

[Corvus Fortis]

At least we do have inquisitors now and can take one without breaking detachment. We can take Xenos for 5+ CP gain, but I'd go for Malleus for their psychic powers. Hector Rex is still the best choice here. Since he is not in the list of mandatory warlord traits, he could use the one that gives +1 psychic power known, +1 cast and deny. Dominate+Castigation+Psychic interrogation are great. Dominate could be swiped for Terrify if there are no good characters to gain control over (unfortunately, singe models in units would be considered in close combat with their unit RAW, so can only make a single attack). Only VEHICLES are exception for the targets, but nothing was told about monsters. Enjoy taking over shooty hive tyrant!

 

Now acolytes are characters if taken as single model unit, so they are even better backfield objective holder for a couple of first turns. 

[Waking Dreamer]

It's unfortunate the Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in TDA didn't go down in points (while also losing that extra attack). Maybe with CA2019 they'll get more cheaper.

 

The Ordo Malleus relic sword is also bad (Bearer has a 1/6 chance of suffering a MW each time they fight with it). Hector Rex's Relic Force Sword is still much better overall.  

[Andarius the Red]

I've read some of the sneak peaks towards the inquisition options, VERY powerful indeed. The psychic powers are OK, but then again I think those shine better with a Sisters or Guard army. The dream of fielding Gregor Eisenhorn has come true!... Shame Grey Knights would kill him on sight.

[Corvus Fortis]

I see no point in TDA inquisitors. Two turns of running will bring any inquisitor into the casting position on the same turn 2. I don't think, that extra points worth it. 

 

Relics are very meh (I wish Plasma Syphon was back). So named characters are always better. Every Ordo is useful for GK. Xenos is good purely for CP generation, Malleus is nice for WT and Xenos is best for debuffing. My choices would be 1) Hector Rex with castigation+Mental Interrogation+dominate or terrify; 1.1) If IA is banned than I'd go for Coteaz with Castigation and Mental Interrogation; 2) Generic Xenos inqusitor with cheapest wargear, 5+ return CP WT, Psychic Veil and -1 to-wound relic; 3) Greyfax with unique Hereticus power. 

[casb1965]

@ Andarius

 

We already have rules in our Codex for a Grand Master and the Supreme Grand Master in Voldus, Standard Grand master, GrandMaster in Dreadknight and Draigo.

[Andarius the Red]

This is true, but what might also be true are these strategems are capable of upgrading our current HQ or Elites before a battle, such as granting us a Chief Apothecary or Chief Librarian for flavour or boost in abilities.

[Mainely Wargamming]

What's the point?  You'd be wasting already precious CP on making one model in your army be slightly better?  I'd rather Psy-ammo or Gate with the CP.