How would you expand the BA Chapter Tactic?

[Claws and Effect]

All the Codex Marine Chapters have a 2 part Chapter Tactic now. I want to get some ideas for how you guys think the BA Tactic should be expanded to equalize things.

 

My wife plays Blood Angels, and she's a little discouraged at the moment after seeing what the vanilla guys are getting. She's especially annoyed that my Raven Guard got a lot of things from the Blood Angels playbook.

 

An idea she had was improve Red Thirst so it is active all the time, rather than just on turns someone charged.

 

I also figured it would be thematic and cool if Blood Angels got +2 to charges.

 

My wife also suggested a cumulative Red Thirst, in which the bonus improves the longer a combat continues.

 

What sayest thou?

[BluejayJunior]

I think the +1 to wound is still fine. I wouldn't change that part of it at all. I would add on something to increase the mobility, especially of vehicles. Something like "can advance and still fire heavy weapons" or something similar. It would allow vehicles, especially the Baal Predator, to make use of their mobility a bit more. Right now, the Baal Pred gets a nice bonus to advancing, but then it can't shoot at all because all it's weapons are Heavy. 

Most of the changes to the Chapter Tactics have made sure that vehicles can benefit from it. A change that just increased our melee effectiveness would just mean our vehicles are just that much worse than other chapters. 

[GrinNfool]

Blood angels is a hard one to "improve" directly the +1 to wound is really really strong, and shock assault arguably benefits BA more than any other marine faction.  I would imagine GW will probably look elsewhere than combat for a secondary CT effect, and it would probably not be a big effect since the +1 to wound is a huge effect.  Could see something like reroll charge rolls (both dice only) or add 1 to advance rolls, or some other nice to have but not great type ability like that.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Agree, the current heavy weapon rules are annoying for tanks.

When Leopards II can blast over a field at high speed, target locked with their main gun, so should tanks 39.000 years later, you’d think.

That’s something of a rule book-fix though.

 

For BA, I’d like to see some “heritage” units to become more of a thing. I was thinking of a rule for RAS, the new marines, being a bit more headstrong and therefore could make a move similar to Forlorn Fury. They’re very lackluster atm.

 

Anything that isn’t close-combat related would be a bit of a waste with red thirst. Since regular chapter doctrines are out for us, a BA specific rule other than red thirst could be a re-roll of a charge die for our units, extra charge distance (+1 or 2), or some AP increasing rule. Tough call, but let’s see what’s in it for us in psychic awakening.

[Gingerninja]

Stratagem wise I would like to see a counter charge strat.

 

If a unit ends its movement within 12" you may charge at the start of your opponents charge face. You may fallback and charge with this stratagem.

 

Should cost 2 CP

[Hintzy]

Like previously mentioned, it'll probably be something that has a positive impact on vehicles as well. Advancing and firing heavy weapons is a likely candidate.

 

Remember we'll also get doctrines, which I think is reasonable to believe will be altered from the vanilla doctrines as they could have given those to us just as easily as shock assault but chose not to. I'm hoping for something that improves mobility active first with the second step improving melee. No idea for the third step, I just hope it doesn't take three turns to get into the melee doctrine.

 

There's also a third piece, I forget what it's called. The piece that is only active if your whole army is mono-chapter and improves one doctrine further. Perhaps that could increase our pile-in and consolidate moves while in the combat doctrine.

[Klod]

I like the idea of treating heavy weapons as assault when advancing. Those Baal Predators with Flamestorm Cannons rolling out 24'' on turn one sounds really nice. Land Raider Redeemers also. Landspeeders getting into good positions, Redemptors advancing up the board. Thats a lot of threat right into your opponents face.

 

Also a stratagem that allows you to reroll a charge roll is necessary.

[Morticon]

I said it before but, i think straight doctrines + the +1 is all I need, but if we had to follow the same style, as SM, i think a call back to the 3rd ed dex is great. Disembark after moving. Maybe disembark and charge(but not move after disembark).

 

I think also, maybe a change of the dev/tac/ass sequence. Maybe losing dev, to get to assault quicker...fits our theme and play style.

[The Unseen]

We're still a codex compliant chapter more or less, so I'd be fine with doctrines being the same, but I also wouldn't mind if it was more flavored on our descent of angels style deep strikes.

I'd use the horus heresy rite of war for inspiration maybe?

 

Our 2nd chapter tactic piece should be vehicle focused, and others have already said, treat heavy weapons as assault after advancing for vehicles, would be quite nice.

 

Our super doctrine effect should be letting jump pack guys deep strike turn 1 like pods now can.

[brother_b]

Are we sure we’re getting doctrines? Was it said? How about litanies? Are we sure were even getting a new codex or supplement? My rumor radar is dialed way down I haven’t heard anything.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Are we sure we’re getting doctrines? Was it said? How about litanies? Are we sure were even getting a new codex or supplement? My rumor radar is dialed way down I haven’t heard anything.

I’m not sure that we will actually. If we were in C:SM or a supplement, we’d gotten full access to the doctrines, but as it is now, I think we get one part of a doctrine max, if at all. Gaining the benefit of a doctrine is the reward for being codex-compliant, which apparently we’re not as much as we used to be, hence our own book.

[Xerxus]

I think we would have received doctrines already, if it was going to be in the codex. They specifically erratad us to get shock assault and not the whole angels of death rule. I expect that our doctrine equivalent will be considerably more assault focused. As for the chapter tactic, it will at least be amended with a vehicle bonus going by the current trend. Probably related to firing on the move.

[Vermintide]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Look at the supplements/CTs vanilla marines have had so far- There's a lot there that would fit the BA theme. So we're either going to get something even better or just straight up copy/pastes.

 

Stuff like being able to charge after falling back, disabling overwatch, treating heavy weapons as assault and so on. I'd expect we will have:

 

- Something that makes charge rolls easier

 

- Something that aids mobility

 

- Adjusted warlord traits and psychic discipline

 

I'm just hoping it's something applicable to the army overall rather than specifically vehicles or specifically jump pack infantry or what have you. We have iconic units like assault terminators which feel left out because they can't take advantage of it. I don't like stuff like what White Scars got where it pigeon holes you into using a certain type of units to get the benefit.

[Panzer]

Whatever it is it will be most likely Jump Pack focussed. ^^

[BluejayJunior]

If we were getting a supplement, we would benefit more directly from the new Codex. I think it is most likely that we will get a new standalone codex. We may not get the combat doctrines directly, but I would expect to get something comparable. 

[Blindhamster]

Worcester store manager was pretty convinced we will be waiting till a new edition before we see anything. Guess we will see.

[Bonzi]

I would think an expansion of our CT/ vehicle bonus would be movement based. +1 to wound is already solid, we just need something good for our vehicles. At a disappointing end would be something basic like reroll advances or get a flat 6" on any vehicle that advances. At a competitive level would be an ability to advance and shoot or a flat bonus to our movement value.

 

I'd love for our combat doctrines to be to substitute the devestator doctrine for a mobility doctrine. Tactical and assault are fine as is. I'd love to see us get an Assault doctrine bonus like 'no respite, if an enemy unit falls back from combat the friendly unit can immediately make a move of d6 inches'. Basically a free pile in to try and catch fleeing enemy units or tie in to other nearby units. Making it harder to run or leave our units hanging out to get shot.

[Djangomatic82]

I'm somewhat pessimistic that we or the other non codex chapters will get any doctrines, but regarding an updated tactic, I'd put money down that will be coming in the Psychic Awakening books for us.

Personally, seeing how successful it was for GW to translate Encarmine Fury from HH into the Red Thirst,  i'm hoping they do the same with the other BA defining rules in Malevolence.

Day of Sorrow
- Whenever a unit that is reduced to half of its starting number of models, or a unit consisting of a single model is reduced to half or less of its total wound count, roll a D6 each time this unit loses a wound. On a 5 or 6 the wound is not lost. If a unit already has a similar ability, other than that granted by the Banner of Sacrifice,instead reduce the result required by 1.

 

Fires of Heaven
- When a unit with this ability Advances, it may treat all of its Heavy and Pistol weapons as though they were Assault weapons until the end of the turn.(Eg. a Heavy D6 weapon is treated as an Assault D6 weapon.)

 

IF i was to get really crazy and wish listy, I'd love something like Orks Dakkadakka. It would go a long way into helping us make up the difference in damage output versus codex marines, would mesh well with all the high volume, low AP weapons GW loves giving to Primaris, AND it would do a good job of representing our surprisingly dakka-ness from HH.

[Panzer]

Day of Sorrow would be great but with a slightly dimnished value since Primaris are more expensive so you have less and smaller units aka less models to benefit from it.

 

Fires of Heaven is weird though. It leaves Rapid fire weapons, the definitely most common type of weapons, in a weird spot.

[Djangomatic82]

Day of Sorrow would be great but with a slightly dimnished value since Primaris are more expensive so you have less and smaller units aka less models to benefit from it.

 

Fires of Heaven is weird though. It leaves Rapid fire weapons, the definitely most common type of weapons, in a weird spot.

Re; Fires of Heaven

Yeah, that was somewhat intentional on my part. Rapid Fire is already the default option across so many weapon options. But considering the intent behind the rule, to be able to improve the mobility of our units, Rapid Fire weapons are in a fine spot, it is our heavy weapons and BA specialty pistols that could use a helping hand. Being able to advance a unit of Devastators or a predator while only incurring the same -1 to hit as moving otherwise incurs, is pretty interesting.

[Karhedron]

I'm somewhat pessimistic that we or the other non codex chapters will get any doctrines

I actually suspect that all armies will get Doctrine-equivalents and probably sooner rather than later. I think that GW are going to use Doctrines as their anti-soup rule. A bonus for running mono-codex is probably better than a penalty for souping.

[Charlo]

Stratagem go move, disembark and charge would be nice. 2CP for that one seems fair.

 

As for chapter tactic, I think the jury is still out on whether we'll get doctrines. We'll absolutely get a second (maybe 3rd) additional rule to our CTs though. I wouldn't be surprised if we got an advance and charge for jump pack units (similar to how WS got a biker-centric addition to thier CP) though I think I'd prefer a flat bonus to charging of perhaps even a minimum 6" for jump Packers? That would be unique and interesting! It doesn't make deep strikes any more OP but it means you aren't failing those easy charges across the board.

 

Actually even something like a larger pile in move would be astoundingly cool and unique, that would represent the blood thirst quite well too.

[SnorriSnorrison]

We could also steal a bit from the 'Nids for a chapter tactic. Ultramarines get to fall back and shoot, perhaps the Blood Angels could fall back and charge. Basically Dante's abilitiy from the 5th(?) edition codex(could've been 3rd as well, not sure) for the entire army. That would be powerful, right? I mean it activates Red Thirst for all our units, all the time. Even Tactical marines would be quite strong in bigger units with that. Downside is that you need bigger units to survive and fall back...

[Panzer]

We could also steal a bit from the 'Nids for a chapter tactic. Ultramarines get to fall back and shoot, perhaps the Blood Angels could fall back and charge. Basically Dante's abilitiy from the 5th(?) edition codex(could've been 3rd as well, not sure) for the entire army. That would be powerful, right? I mean it activates Red Thirst for all our units, all the time. Even Tactical marines would be quite strong in bigger units with that. Downside is that you need bigger units to survive and fall back...

That's already the White Scars chapter tactic though. Just that White Scars get also to charge when they advanced and Bikes not suffering from the penalty for moving and shooting with Heavy weapons or for advancing and shooting with Assault weapons.

And that's before the super doctrine.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Aha! Good point, sir! I haven’t played against WS yet and didn’t realize they were that strong.

Well, it could be everything. Advance and charge would be very useful for BA as well obviously.