"Shadow-Smash" Captain

[L30n1d4s]

I currently have an idea for a new Raven Guard Successor, using "Whirlwind of Rage" and "Stealthy" traits to maximize both the long-range and close combat capabilities that the Raven Guard supplement brings to the fight.

 

Using these two Traits, I am also thinking of a pretty potent close combat character as follows:

 

-Captain on Bike with Stormshield  and Chainsword (upgraded to Chapter Master with Strat)

-Teeth of Terra (Relic)

-"Imperium's Sword" (WL Trait), PLUS "Master of Vigilance" (2nd WL Trait)

 

This Chapter Master would run around with a Biker Librarian "Squire" (who has the "Swift and Deadly" WL Trait) to cast Might of Heroes on him (so up to S6, T6, and 8A base, thanks to Teeth of Terra) and use Null Zone when facing enemies with a strong Invul.

 

The way I see this working is as follows:

 

1 - Librarian casts Might of Heroes on the Biker Chapter Master and (as required) gets Null Zone off as well.

2 - Both Characters move 14", advance 6", and charge 2D6" (using RG Strat for re-rolling if necessary)

3 - On the charge, the Chapter Master has 10A (4 base, +1 Might of Heroes, +1 Angels of Death, +1 Imperium Sword, +3 Teeth of Terra), all at S7 AP-2 D2

4 - Using the Chapter Master ability, re-roll everything but 6s to Hit.... this should give an average of about three 6's, which generate another three 6's (thanks to "Whirlwind of Rage" Chapter Trait)... thanks to the "Master of Vigilance" WL Trait, that makes for 6 "auto" Mortal Wounds out the gate and an average of about 12 Hits.... against a tough character like a Hive Tyrant (T6, 12W, 3+/4++), you can use the "Lay Low the Tyrant" Strat for +1 to Wound, which means you are wounding on a 2+, so an average of 10 wounds, 6-7 unsaved wounds after the 5+ armor save, and 12-14 damage inflicted total (so, 18-20damage total, including the MWs from "Master of Vigilance").

 

All of this is without even being in the Tactical Doctrine for Surgical Strikes, so you can do it Turn 1 without penalty (or, if you do it turn 2 and have Tactical Doctrine/Surgical Strikes active, be even more deadly to characters). The Librarian can help with his Force Weapon if your opponent survives some how, or use his attacks against another unit. I am thinking about adding an escort of Company Veterans on Bikes with dual Lightning Claws to deal with other units and/or help out against tough characters.... the entire Bike "Battle Group" would have a charge Threat Radius of 22-32"", so very good chance of first turn charges for everyone, buying time for the rest of the army to maneuver, shoot, get into position, survive until Turn 2 when the Tactical Doctrine goes up, etc.

 

[IronDreddKnight]

I’ve been working on this build as well. Don’t forget to swing again with ‘honour the chapter’ and consider taking a chaplain for exploding attacks.

[Claws and Effect]

I’ve been working on this build as well. Don’t forget to swing again with ‘honour the chapter’ and consider taking a chaplain for exploding attacks.

Master of Vigilance already gives him exploding attacks.

[L30n1d4s]

Actually, Master of Vigilance makes any unmodified 6s to Hit cause a mortal wound... Whirlwind of Rage Trait makes any unmodified 6s to Hit generate another free hit (and, hence, another free MW)... I have tested this out a bit and , on average, the Chapter Master is generating about three 6s to Hit after trolls when he charges... that makes for 3 additional hits and 6 MWs before you even get to the to Wound phase.

[SkimaskMohawk]

The only problem I can really see is the psychic powers and possibly chaplain buff adding a bit too many moving parts. You really want might of heroes and catechism of fire going off since you generate so much damage with them.

 

Also I guess the cp investment? 2 for chapter master, 1 for trifold, 1 for hero of the chapter, possibly 1 for ravens blade and possibly 1 for lay low the tyrant. Also possibly 2 for command rerolls on might and catechism. That's 7 right there to really make sure you kill your target, though blade and tyrant are far more situational.

[L30n1d4s]

Chaplains Buff would be nice, but not at all mandatory (I didn't even mention it in my first post).... yes, getting Might of Heroes off is pretty important, but it is decently reliable already, so really it's the 2 CPs for Chapter Master, CP for extra WL Trait on the CM, and CP for second Warlord on the Librarian (not mandatory, but gives you an extra 6" to your charge threat radius)... finally, Lay Low the Tyrant is nice to have in your back pocket, but the real power is in the in initial MWs (I have been averaging 6-8 before even resolving the To Wound rolls, which will kill many characters outright by itself).

[SkimaskMohawk]

Oh yea, I'm not saying that it's hard to get the support elements off, just that its unfortunate not to. I think I'd honestly take exhortation of rage (not catechism like I mistake called it) over might of heroes if it's pure mortal wound fishing.

[Brother Quixote]

All this looks good from an offense point of view, provided that the charge and all psychic powers go off without a hitch.  You're probably going to have to invest at least another command point for a reroll somewhere.

 

But have you considered what the unit is doing turn 2?

 

Because without an escort, you've just lost a psyker and your chapter master. Losing all that command point investment, the rerolls and giving up Slay the Warlord had better be worth whatever you killed turn 1.

Even with an escort, they're probably still dead.

 

Now, depending on your opponents it may be worth it just to force the opponent to play more defensively or to kill a big model.  You're only getting away with that against regular opponents once.

[Bluflash]

I'm just giving a biker captain the Teeth of Terra, Storm shield, Chapter Master and master of ambush via Hero. He's taking Assault Cents, and is backed up by two Invictors deployed midfield. If i go first, aggressively deploy the cap and Cents, move the Invictors up into CM bubble, and go for the T1 cent charge. If i go second, I deploy the Cents midfield as a counter-charge/24" bolter threat.

 

My WL is a phobos cap in the backfield. RG has a solid ability to get Slay the Warlord regularly. Making your aggressive HQ the WL turns that point into a trade rather than an advantage.

[Claws and Effect]

I'm testing out some herohammer against my wife's Nids later.

 

6 HQs, 4 of which have jump packs.

 

Going to put the jump Libby, Shrike, and Vanguard vets in reserve and Shadowstep my jump Chaplain over to them to give them +2 to charge rolls.

 

Chaplain will be my Warlord with Iron Resolve and a RG trait to be decided later. He's also getting Armor of Shadows to increase his durability. Nids have a lot of stuff that hits on 2s and 3s in melee.

 

Captain with Teeth of Terra and a storm shield will be a Hero of the Chapter, likely running the MW on 6s trait. With Shrike right there I'll be able to reroll hit rolls and fish for mortal wounds, while being pretty confident I'll still hit with most of them even if I don't get any more 6s.

 

My jump Libby will likely be running the anti-overwatch power and Spectral Blade.

 

My wife runs a Flyrant and Swarmlord, so I'm going to have to dogpile them with heavy hitters if I need to kill them in melee.

[Nusquam]

I'm tempted to do a Phobos Libby with Armor of Shadows(And using Transhuman Physiology), Spectral Blade and Umbral form to go character hunting myself.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Honestly as cool as a psychic Assassin is and how well it fits the phobos librarian, I just don't think he has enough attacks to pull it off against anything that isn't very much a support character.

 

A phobos captain/lieutenant with oppressors end and sword of the imperium can one hit pretty much any hideable character on average on turn 2. Turn 1 if you're going after toughness 5 and less. Think about that, on turn 2 you can reliably kill guilliman with your captain, the one that everyone thinks of as a ranged support character. They'll never see it coming.

 

EDIT: forgot that guilliman has a 3++ (was mixing up with the roll to get back up) so you won't be able to whack him in one turn. Still 6 wounds isn't bad. Plus you can shoot him with your gun!

[Dracos]

Agreed except for Rule of Cool it’s not an effective use of resources. (imo)

[superwill]

...

3 - On the charge, the Chapter Master has 10A (4 base, +1 Might of Heroes, +1 Angels of Death, +1 Imperium Sword, +3 Teeth of Terra), all at S7 AP-2 D2

4 - Using the Chapter Master ability, re-roll everything but 6s to Hit.... this should give an average of about three 6's, which generate another three 6's (thanks to "Whirlwind of Rage" Chapter Trait)... thanks to the "Master of Vigilance" WL Trait, that makes for 6 "auto" Mortal Wounds out the gate and an average of about 12 Hits....

 

Are you sure that's how it works? I might be wrong but I would've thought:

 

10 attacks will get 1.67 6s and 1.67 misses, rerolled to give another 0.28 6s which adds up to 1.94 6s (let's call it 2 6s). Those 2 6s trigger extra hits, but I don't think the extra hits count as extra unmodified rolls of a 6 do they? Is that mentioned in an FAQ somewhere? If it is, then I think he would score around 4 mortal wounds. But if it doesn't work that way (and I'd presume it doesn't unless it's made explicit somewhere that extra hits count as another dice of the same result) then it would only be 2 mortal wounds.

 

6 mortal wounds would be amazing. Please let me know if I've got it wrong.

[dode74]

 

 

Is that mentioned in an FAQ somewhere? 

It is not, and it needs clarification.  That latest FAQ was nuts.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

...

3 - On the charge, the Chapter Master has 10A (4 base, +1 Might of Heroes, +1 Angels of Death, +1 Imperium Sword, +3 Teeth of Terra), all at S7 AP-2 D2

4 - Using the Chapter Master ability, re-roll everything but 6s to Hit.... this should give an average of about three 6's, which generate another three 6's (thanks to "Whirlwind of Rage" Chapter Trait)... thanks to the "Master of Vigilance" WL Trait, that makes for 6 "auto" Mortal Wounds out the gate and an average of about 12 Hits....

Are you sure that's how it works? I might be wrong but I would've thought:

 

10 attacks will get 1.67 6s and 1.67 misses, rerolled to give another 0.28 6s which adds up to 1.94 6s (let's call it 2 6s). Those 2 6s trigger extra hits, but I don't think the extra hits count as extra unmodified rolls of a 6 do they? Is that mentioned in an FAQ somewhere? If it is, then I think he would score around 4 mortal wounds. But if it doesn't work that way (and I'd presume it doesn't unless it's made explicit somewhere that extra hits count as another dice of the same result) then it would only be 2 mortal wounds.

 

6 mortal wounds would be amazing. Please let me know if I've got it wrong.

Chapter master allows you to reroll all attacks, not just misses now.

 

The faq also says that any bonus hit counts as the roll that created it, the example being imperial fists infiltrators additional hit turning into an auto wound.

[superwill]

Ohhh I see, so you would reroll even the hits just to fish for some more MW? That’s cool, then yeah that would bump it from 2ish to 3ish (at the risk of turning some hits into misses)

 

Which FAQ is it in? Just tried to find something in the general rules one and didn’t see it mentioned there (there was other stuff about multiple abilities of bonus hits on sixes stacking but nothing about them further triggering each other, or any mention of the imperial fists). Couldn’t find it in the space marine faq either. Did I miss it or is it in something else?

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's in the marine codex faq.

 

"Q. If an ability or rule generates an additional hit, (e.g. the Imperial Siege Masters Chapter Tactic), do these additional hits gain any other benefits that would apply to an attack on a hit roll of 6 (e.g. an Infiltrator’s marksman bolt carbine)? A: Yes, the additional hits are treated as having rolled the same value as the dice roll that generated them. "

[dode74]

It does say that, but it's an FAQ which requires further clarification as it potentially could lead to infinite hits...

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

It does say that, but it's an FAQ which requires further clarification as it potentially could lead to infinite hits...

 

I know the ruling is quite a bit ludicrous, but I wasn't aware it could create an infinite loop. 

 

For fear of de-railing the thread, would you mind PM'ing me the moving parts how?

[duz_]

OK not sure what happened here but were done.