September Big FAQ speculation and wishlisting

[Dark Shepherd]

Possible problem with changing plasma self combustion rule for self wounding (except on vehicles and characters) is with multi wound models/units; you could theoretically have 10 hellblasters or terminators in a unit who have taken a wound each and that mucks up the system for allocating wounds

[Slasher956]

As models that are in units are  W2 I dont see the issue, as the overheating profile of plasma is D2... 

 

so on a 1 to hit the firing models takes a S8 Ap -3 /4 D2 hit... if they are firing the D1 profile (S7) it doesnt overheat so doesnt matter

[Panzer]

As models that are in units are  W2 I dont see the issue, as the overheating profile of plasma is D2... 

 

so on a 1 to hit the firing models takes a S8 Ap -3 /4 D2 hit... if they are firing the D1 profile (S7) it doesnt overheat so doesnt matter

 

Inceptors are W3 though, so the argument still holds unfortunately.

[Chapter Master Valrak]

Just leave my Repulsor Executioner alone :)

[Slasher956]

 

As models that are in units are  W2 I dont see the issue, as the overheating profile of plasma is D2... 

 

so on a 1 to hit the firing models takes a S8 Ap -3 /4 D2 hit... if they are firing the D1 profile (S7) it doesnt overheat so doesnt matter

 

Inceptors are W3 though, so the argument still holds unfortunately.

 

 

As you've pointed out to me before, each unit has its own rules so you could give inceptors a 'cronic overheat' rule that  makes their plasma D3 on an hit of a 1

[Trevak Dal]

Wishlisting?

 

"Jetpack" keyword in Tau units allows them to move 8" in the assault phase.

[Panzer]

 

 

As models that are in units are  W2 I dont see the issue, as the overheating profile of plasma is D2... 

 

so on a 1 to hit the firing models takes a S8 Ap -3 /4 D2 hit... if they are firing the D1 profile (S7) it doesnt overheat so doesnt matter

 

 

Inceptors are W3 though, so the argument still holds unfortunately.

 

As you've pointed out to me before, each unit has its own rules so you could give inceptors a 'cronic overheat' rule that  makes their plasma D3 on an hit of a 1

Of course, however I was responding to a bunch of general statements. ;)

[Trevak Dal]

Tau plasma rifle 30" range rapid 2 or 24" range rapid 1 damage 2.

 

+1 bs for crisis, stealth suits. Farsight Enclave gets +1 ws.

[Guest Triszin]

Tau plasma rifle 30" range rapid 2 or 24" range rapid 1 damage 2.

 

+1 bs for crisis, stealth suits. Farsight Enclave gets +1 ws.

30" rapid 2. Work borkan you now have 36" rifles. Which means people would actually use them

[Panzer]

Wishlisting?

"Jetpack" keyword in Tau units allows them to move 8" in the assault phase.

Keywords don't give special rules. It would be the assault phase that would allow all jetpack units to do so.

Also letting T'au Battlesuits move further than other units on an average charge roll and in any direction they want to on top? That's a bit much even for wishlisting. ^^

[Trevak Dal]

Make crisis suits great again. I want my Real Power Armor from 6th and 7th back. The Sphess Marines got their toys...they are confident and powerful.

 

And my Tau miss collecting scraps of geneseed and ceremite as trophies.

[MARK0SIAN]

I would prefer all Plasma overheats to be "suffers a mortal wound". Otherwise it's just too risky on a character.

I would agree with that but I would want to see the caveat that no feel no pain style rolls can be made against this wound.

 

I’m Not sure exactly how you’d do that in terms of wording but I think it still needs to be there or the risk of overcharging becomes too negligible.

[Dark Shepherd]

As models that are in units are W2 I dont see the issue, as the overheating profile of plasma is D2...

 

so on a 1 to hit the firing models takes a S8 Ap -3 /4 D2 hit... if they are firing the D1 profile (S7) it doesnt overheat so doesnt matter

Not sure who said it but thought someone said one mortal wound. Theres other units off the top of my head like Thunderwolf Cav that can take plasma and have 3 wounds

[BitsHammer]

As models that are in units are W2 I dont see the issue, as the overheating profile of plasma is D2...

 

so on a 1 to hit the firing models takes a S8 Ap -3 /4 D2 hit... if they are firing the D1 profile (S7) it doesnt overheat so doesnt matter

So...when it overheats it should do mortal wounds equal to it's damage profile?

[Captain Idaho]

 

 

 

As models that are in units are  W2 I dont see the issue, as the overheating profile of plasma is D2... 

 

so on a 1 to hit the firing models takes a S8 Ap -3 /4 D2 hit... if they are firing the D1 profile (S7) it doesnt overheat so doesnt matter

 

Inceptors are W3 though, so the argument still holds unfortunately.

 

As you've pointed out to me before, each unit has its own rules so you could give inceptors a 'cronic overheat' rule that  makes their plasma D3 on an hit of a 1

Of course, however I was responding to a bunch of general statements. ;)

To add to it... it still works if you apply it to the unit rather than model. Then plasma becomes dangerous to everyone around them!

[The Unseen]

Make it do mortal wounds to the unit.

Wound allocation shenanigans go away.

Also means that you could fast roll overcharged plasma shots, rather than having to roll each models shots individally, and really bad rolls could kill large chunks of squad.

Making it potentially more dangerous really.

Also leads to the hilarious bit where a guard squads plasma gun overheats, incinerates the gunner and his buddy on snake eyes, and the sergeant gets to tell his least favorite squaddie to pick the gun up. (Because you could allocate the wounds to other squad members and keep the plasmagun)

 

Buts it's stupid that you'd rather have a 1 wound model holding overcharged plasma than a 2 or 3 wound one. Somehow a plasma weapon overheating causes instant immolation, but only on the guy holding the gun.

 

Especially on characters.

"Character has 7 wounds, can soak 3 overcharged plasma shots to the face and won't die. Plasma Pistol overheats once, instantly dies"

Huh?

 

Or even better, the plasmagun/lascannon razorback or the land raider excelsior I think, that has a plasmagun pintle mount.

Roll a 1 and remove your tank with 10+ wounds please.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

1s for plasma should do mortals to the unit, or to the model. It doesn't actually matter. Just add a rule that 'If more than one model in  a unit is wounded, you must apply wounds to the model with the lowest wound count first.' Failing that, let the player assign the mortal wounds and describe it as the weapon venting.

 

More important changes I'd like to see are:

 

Template/Blast/Whatever. A tag that is added to the type of weapons (Assault 1d6B, heavy 3d3B). When weapons with the blast tag deal damage to a unit, the damage spreads between models like mortal wounds. Add it to flamers, artillery pieces that used to have pie plates, etc.

[Dark Shepherd]

IMO the shenanigans with mortal wounds for plasma would then be using other models in the unit for ablative wounds rather than the gunner being punished for his gun exploding

[ERJAK]

I'm dying for a tweak to the terrain rules. Bring back abstract terrain rules - true line of sight has never been a success from day one.

 

- Woods/ruins should block line of sight through their base but you can shoot into and out of freely.

 

- Bring back unit sizes. A Rhino should block line of sight to a model rather than a tiny part of the model behind being seen and thus being open to being shot. Models would be dynamic in reality and duck and stoop etc.

No to all of that.

 

 

Fix the "Reroll failed hits/wounds/etc." to plain reroll in all instances.

Change plasma to explode on unmodified 1s.

then you are just changing re-rolls to happen after modifiers....

 

however do agree with overheats rules being changed to unmodified....

Not exactly. You're changing rerolls to happen intelligently in a way that most benefits the rolling player.

[chapter master 454]

All Plasma should result in D3 mortal wounds. Represent the explosive nature of the weapon malfunction. Done. NEXT.

 

Unit Size to stay dead. "I park my rhino into front of this 6" high building, the units on top of it can't be targeted as they are somehow obscured from LoS due to the rhino"

 

Re-rolls are fine. However all effects that say "re-roll hit rolls" should just be that raw. Stops the stupid meme of modifiers with it.

 

"I rolled a 3, that's a hit yea?"

"Yes but actually No"

It does result in the whole "fishing" thing people seem to hate but it represents the units attempting to getting the perfect hit. It fits. "I SAID HIT THEM HARDER!"

 

 

Again, my biggest complaint is the need for targeting rules to require intervening squads to be visible. This needs to be done and addressed.

I would also add that any unit with a "Min move" requirement also cannot count towards this requirement, they are up in the sky and are certainly not making it hard to make out a target.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

The reason I'm saying that it doesn't matter whether or not we apply mortal wounds to other members of a squad than the plasma wielder is that the balance of that doesn't  actually bother me. Right now characters and vehicles dying randomly is much less balanced than a squad using other members for extra wounds. If I have to choose between one or the other with no extra rules being added, I'd rather the mortals.

 

Of course I agree that a completely alternative system would be better, but eh. For a quick and dirty fix I prefer mortal wounds applied to ablative squad members over Chaplains randomly exploding.

[burningsky25]

A lot of people have complained about the adaptation of blast weapons and flamer weapons in 8th, and I agree they need improving.  The current system for flamer weaponry espcially is way too swingy and doesn't provide any of the same benefits that last edition had with a natural counter against hordes.  Now they're just as good against single models as they are against groups, basically the antithesis of their previous role.  

 

One idea to change them would be to have them auto-hit all models within the range of the weapon that are in the target unit.  It would regain all of the natural advantages and disadvantages that flamer weapons had in the last edition, with you naturally wanting to get closer to get more hits, and being better against large groups of models than against small units.  It's admittedly not as 'simple' as the current set of rules in terms of models in range, but people have to measure weapons ranges all the time in the game, it can't be that controversial or the whole game would break down.

 

Just an idea I had, doubt they'll actually make the change though.

 

Edit: Realized this is basically just Jain Zar's Storm of Silence special rule except on a ranged weapon with auto-hits that is limited to one unit, in case I was unclear on the mechanic.  

[Lexington]

 

I'm dying for a tweak to the terrain rules. Bring back abstract terrain rules - true line of sight has never been a success from day one.

 

- Woods/ruins should block line of sight through their base but you can shoot into and out of freely.

 

- Bring back unit sizes. A Rhino should block line of sight to a model rather than a tiny part of the model behind being seen and thus being open to being shot. Models would be dynamic in reality and duck and stoop etc.

No to all of that.

Legit curious as to your objections, here. I feel like one thing that almost everyone agrees on about 8th Ed is that it’s terrain/LoS rules are utter crap.

[Khulu]

I would not mind templates coming back as long as scatter stays gone. Place the template within range, roll to hit for each model under the template. Problem solved. Or just place the template, roll one time to see if it hits, if so it hits everything underneath and if not it hits nothing.

 

The problem would be vehicles and other large models eould need to get hit multiple times or else some armies suddenly have no good anti armor. Might be better just to have former Blast weapons (not small blast) scale with the size of the target unit.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Remember that the random number of hits represents scatter... which does accurately represent flame template weapons.