September Big FAQ speculation and wishlisting

[burningsky25]

Remember that the random number of hits represents scatter... which does accurately represent flame template weapons.

 

Random number of hits might represent scatter, but that was an attribute of blast weapons, not flamers.  All of the major identifying properties of template weapons last edition - their inherent advantages against larger units, and their increasing hits the closer you are to that unit (within reason), are not represented in any way whatsoever.  

 

Flamers are a fundamentally different weapon than they were in 7th edition - different uses, different targets.  

[Tyriks]

Remember that the random number of hits represents scatter... which does accurately represent flame template weapons.

Flamers never scattered, so no, that doesn't work.

[Panzer]

That's why flamer auto-hit and former blast-weapons don't. ^^

 

 

 

Unit Size to stay dead. "I park my rhino into front of this 6" high building, the units on top of it can't be targeted as they are somehow obscured from LoS due to the rhino"

 

 

I don't know how it used to be in older 40k editions but in fantasy terrain modified the "height" of a unit. Be on a hill? +1 to your units height. That can be easily adjusted for 40k ruins and give +1 for each floor.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m meant not with respect to flamers.

[Dark Shepherd]

Itd be easy enough to treat plasma explosions as bearer is slain unless its character or vehicle...in which case it takes 2 mortal wounds

 

Flamers auothitting models in range is a fething great idea

[Ishagu]

Most vehicles armed with Plasma weapons do only take mortal wounds when they overheat...

 

The only one that doesn't is the Las Plas Razorback, I believe?

[Panzer]

Flamers auothitting models in range is a fething great idea

That's what they already do, just with a random amount of shots. If they'd hit every single model in range it would just delete horde units.

[Dark Shepherd]

Most vehicles armed with Plasma weapons do only take mortal wounds when they overheat...

 

The only one that doesn't is the Las Plas Razorback, I believe?

Heavy Plasma Cannons just do MW

 

Think it was chaos rhinos with combi plas led to the rule change that you cant charge from a destroyed transport, some players were overcharging the plasma to blow them up to get off a turn one charge

[MARK0SIAN]

 

 

Flamers auothitting models in range is a fething great idea

That's what they already do, just with a random amount of shots. If they'd hit every single model in range it would just delete horde units.

I think it might work better if it was something like:

 

Select a model in the target unit that is in range of the flamer. Every model within 2 (maybe 3) inches of the target model is automatically hit.

 

It would make it good against densely packed hordes (like it should be) but wouldn’t delete the entire blob and would make it much less effective against single characters or spaced out units.

[chapter master 454]

That's why flamer auto-hit and former blast-weapons don't. ^^

 

 

 

Unit Size to stay dead. "I park my rhino into front of this 6" high building, the units on top of it can't be targeted as they are somehow obscured from LoS due to the rhino"

 

 

I don't know how it used to be in older 40k editions but in fantasy terrain modified the "height" of a unit. Be on a hill? +1 to your units height. That can be easily adjusted for 40k ruins and give +1 for each floor.

 

Unit size was three categories in 4th edition. Size 1 through 3. Size 1 was grots, Size three was Vehicles, Monsters and Buildings mainly. Same size or bigger blocked LoS in that edition (so marines could sight block just by squads but then again there was the need to leadership check to shoot at something other than the closest target). The example I said is literally what I got hit with once when I started in 4th edition and was by all rules correct and could be done in tournaments.

 

As for the whole size thing saying you gain height, similar thing in those rules, if you were on the building you were size 3. But again, same size blocks regardless of the actual models. Abstraction got insane.

[kombatwombat]

Think it was chaos rhinos with combi plas led to the rule change that you cant charge from a destroyed transport, some players were overcharging the plasma to blow them up to get off a turn one charge

On the other hand, that was just about the funniest deliberate abuse of an unintended rule interaction the game has ever seen.

 

The amazing plane-targeting plasma-shooting Berserker Rhino!

[chapter master 454]

 

Think it was chaos rhinos with combi plas led to the rule change that you cant charge from a destroyed transport, some players were overcharging the plasma to blow them up to get off a turn one charge

On the other hand, that was just about the funniest deliberate abuse of an unintended rule interaction the game has ever seen.

 

The amazing plane-targeting plasma-shooting Berserker Rhino!

 

 

I wouldn't even be mad, I would be impressed as well...bravo good sir, well played.

[Dark Shepherd]

Yeah in a way it is kinda hilarious, this 10 wound model explodes from 2 plasma wounds, ok have some bezerkers in your face

[Claws and Effect]

I don't want templates coming back.

 

People spreading their units out to the max and taking the time to measure between them for coherence made the movement phase take way longer than it should. Especially when you have a mob of 30 Ork Boyz that the player insisted must all be exactly 2" apart at all times.

 

Random number of hits is fine. When people spread their models out how many did you realistically hit anyway?

[Ishagu]

Yeah I never want them to return either. Game is quite slick only needing dice and measure.

[Claws and Effect]

Also, how many horde army players bought Apocalypse movement trays to make managing the movement of 100+ models easier. Bringing back templates would either punish those people by making their units easier to kill or by wasting their money on trays they never use.

[The Unseen]

I don't want templates back, but more things need bonuses against large squad sizes like the grav weapon on leviathans.

Morale isn't cutting it, as per the usual for 40k.

[kombatwombat]

I don't want templates coming back.

 

People spreading their units out to the max and taking the time to measure between them for coherence made the movement phase take way longer than it should. Especially when you have a mob of 30 Ork Boyz that the player insisted must all be exactly 2" apart at all times.

 

Random number of hits is fine. When people spread their models out how many did you realistically hit anyway?

Thing is, now those same armies spread their models exactly 2” apart to deny deep strikers! We’ve lost a lot more than we gained with templates going the way of the dodo.

 

Also, punishing those armies is good. It allows template weapons to function as horde control, which the game is in dire need of now.

 

The idea above about autohitting all models in a unit within range with flamers is excellent. Discussed it with my gaming group and we’re keen to give it a try. The only caveats are that weapons with 2D6 shots cause 2 hits per model in range, and that you cap out at 10 models hit per shot.

 

Edit: Also, y’all ever tried playing with a Titan or other big gun without templates? Hope you enjoy your $3000 6000pt model shooting 4 units per turn.

[Claws and Effect]

Edit: Also, y’all ever tried playing with a Titan or other big gun without templates? Hope you enjoy your $3000 6000pt model shooting 4 units per turn.

I've never seen anything bigger than a Warhound in the wild. And I can't say much about it's effectiveness because it only got 1 shooting phase before a Cadian Shadowsword deleted it outright. 37 damage in 1 phase.

[sairence]

 

I don't want templates coming back.

 

People spreading their units out to the max and taking the time to measure between them for coherence made the movement phase take way longer than it should. Especially when you have a mob of 30 Ork Boyz that the player insisted must all be exactly 2" apart at all times.

 

Random number of hits is fine. When people spread their models out how many did you realistically hit anyway?

Thing is, now those same armies spread their models exactly 2” apart to deny deep strikers! We’ve lost a lot more than we gained with templates going the way of the dodo.

I play Guard and I've never had to resort to that in 8th. Had to do it in 7th, because a deepstriker could show up right next to me. Have also never seen anyone do it. The main complaint about templates is honestly the amount of time it ads on both side of the match. Having to spread all my Guardsmen so much was massively tedious, as was maximising the effect of templates. If I never have to figure out what shooting a Wyvern's 4 small twin-linked barrage blasts did I won't be a sad man.

 

Now, I do agree that some flamer-type weapons should get additonal hits based on the size of the target unit. They should cover more area when firing on a blob of 20 than a unit of 5. Or at least I though that until an infilitrating 12" flamer existed.

[Azaiel]

In regards to the FAQ for my Deathwatch I cant see GW doing anything.

 

Im scared of chapter approved though, nothing good will come out of that book for my army.

[Trevak Dal]

I don't want templates back, but more things need bonuses against large squad sizes like the grav weapon on leviathans.

Morale isn't cutting it, as per the usual for 40k.

If it was like 30k where msu was more expensive and you got a discount for larger squads (though I don't know how that would work out for non marine factions, or how it would do with stuff like Primaris who don't have options)

[Claws and Effect]

 

I don't want templates back, but more things need bonuses against large squad sizes like the grav weapon on leviathans.

Morale isn't cutting it, as per the usual for 40k.

If it was like 30k where msu was more expensive and you got a discount for larger squads (though I don't know how that would work out for non marine factions, or how it would do with stuff like Primaris who don't have options)

That would make hordes broken. If they got cheaper the more models you took, you'd see 150 models at the same points that 120 are at now, while not doing anything at all for Marines because their rules encourage you to take smaller squads in the first place.

[Vermintide]

I don't want templates back, but more things need bonuses against large squad sizes like the grav weapon on leviathans.

Morale isn't cutting it, as per the usual for 40k.

 

New <MASS INFANTRY> keyword added to units such as IG troopers, cultists, poxwalkers, etc.

 

If a unit with the <MASS INFANTRY> keyword is above [model count] models, wounds inflicted by multi-damage weapons spill over against targets in this unit.

 

Robert is your proverbial uncle's brother. A large group of infantry in close formation would, realistically, be just as vulnerable to anti tank weaponry as small arms- The beam of a lascannon isn't going to stop dead as soon as it hits that first cultist, it's going to keep going and incinerate the other four guys stood behind him.

 

I've thought about this a fair bit and I can't see a downside honestly.

[ERJAK]

 

 

I'm dying for a tweak to the terrain rules. Bring back abstract terrain rules - true line of sight has never been a success from day one.

 

- Woods/ruins should block line of sight through their base but you can shoot into and out of freely.

 

- Bring back unit sizes. A Rhino should block line of sight to a model rather than a tiny part of the model behind being seen and thus being open to being shot. Models would be dynamic in reality and duck and stoop etc.

No to all of that.

Legit curious as to your objections, here. I feel like one thing that almost everyone agrees on about 8th Ed is that it’s terrain/LoS rules are utter crap.

No, the cover rules are crap. The terrain and LoS rules are fine.

 

As goofy as true LoS works, abstraction is almost always worse. 'I have a knight here so you can't shoot the left side of the table.' 'I have a rhino so half my army is out of LoS even though you can clearly see them' 'oh you can't shoot through the ruin but you can shoot into and out of it despite that being stupid as heck'.

 

Plus it's a bunch of tedious memorization that ends up adding even more bad to the game than good.