Raven Guard Retex and tactica

[chapter master 454]

I think we can all come to the agreement that Master of Ambush is AMAZING. Something about being able to effectively have old deep strike on WHATEVER you like for free basically which for units like Centurions, Aggressors and any unit that just wants to get across the board fast is often a pain when paying for transports. Amazing ability.

Close behind that is the Strike from the Shadows...however I still wonder how they sneak centurions and aggressors around? (again, my theory is just a bit of branch taped to the front of the armour).

 

Not going to lie, I am still surprised by the Raven Guard Codex imo, a surprise favourite for me (I thought I was going to be hardcore Iron Hands usage).

[SkimaskMohawk]

Close behind that is the Strike from the Shadows...however I still wonder how they sneak centurions and aggressors around? (again, my theory is just a bit of branch taped to the front of the armour).

"Experimental reflex technology"

[Archon_77]

I like to think of us as having some of our Primarch's ability to psychically screw with folks to make them not really be able to see us well :D

[MajorNese]

My head canon when starting the "small" Raptors project revolved around smuggling dismantled light support weaponry into the target area, assemble in a hidden staging ground, then march out and shoot stuff.

 

Mostly intended for Tarantulas, Rapiers and Centurions, since that's the stuff you could leave behind in an emergency and still being able to fight on with the crew, or make a dash for it to some hidden transport. That would at least explain the "they were reported as wiped out several times" fluff - ditch the gear, save the crew. The latter can't be replaced, and the former might buy them some time if automated/servitor controlled.

[Nusquam]

Theyve had stealth aircraft since the heresy. Their forgeworld also specializes in stealth tech. They even could render titans invisible with application of reflex tech. Some came cloaks here and stealth tweaks there could have some rubble suddenly com alive as centurions. Also the Invictor is a thing now.

Plus it could simply be jamming tech and have been hidden outside line of site infiltrators style.

I think everything fits as far as RG goes with their stratagems.

Game tonight. Going to try deepstriking Hellblasters and going to use as many new strats as possible. Opposite of my Gunline Raptor Army that is the Stealth path. I'm trying the Ambush path now. Feels like these paths are applicable to games too.

 

Edit: Had the game. Practice for ITC Champ mission tourney again. Double battalion with sniper scouts, auto intercessors, relic twin las contemptor, redeptorm 15 hellblasters, two caps, two LTs(one with Tenebris), libby, relic banner, apoth vs knights/admech with raven wrathstellan, lancer, castigator, lightning moirax, and 30 skittles.

 

I did seize but between Master of Ambush and infiltrators saw that i was prepared to hide out of LoS or double tap turn one(which I did). Deepstriking the other hellblasters, banner, and cap was every bit as good as one would expect turn two against and army of character knights.

 

Umbral form and Spectral blade libby did 11 to the castellan. Had I known honour the chapter was 3CP not two I would have saved 3 to swing again with him.

 

Genewrought might net me a few wounds too. Other CP was on needed rerolls so I couldnt use as many new strats as I wanted.

[MajorNese]

As there is news that the Impulsor should be arriving soon - any potential uses for that thing, that might be rather specific for our guys?

The transport thing might not be as necessary as it is for other chapters, but surely it's not exactly bad - 14" move, 3" disembark, 6" infantry move means we'll be pretty much anywhere we want.
If we deployed Infiltrators/Incursors/Invictors/Insomethingelseors, we could instantly back up their position with further squads, and deploy Reivers in grenade/scary look range to actually make use of their abilities and/or box in units.

As for the vehicle itself, I find the weapons options rather uninspiring. While two stormbolters are okay, both the missile launcher and the AA stubbers are heavy weapons that suffer when moving.
The shield dome is useful to keep them alive at closer ranges, otherwise our cover mechanism already gives us a 5+ save against AP-3.

What might be fun would be a certain number of comms arrays. Orbital Bombardment strat is 3 CP, the comms array (that does the same) is just 18p.
Any time our opponent clusters everything around a captain/Ironstone guy/whatever buff character, things become interesting. The only limiting factor is that it's only one per phase, so maybe a maximum of 2 make actual sense.

Once the bombardment is spent and the transported guys arrived where needed, that vehicle is low enough on the target priority to not attract much fire. Soak overwatch, hold objectives, lock stuff in CC, block lanes, there's enough uses to go around.

[Nusquam]

I tried three games with impulsor proxies with my hellblasters when the new dex dropped and I loved them.

 

3 with 5man helblasters, and a character each with banner, nullzone libby, and captain. They're basically turn one Primaris drop pods.

 

After disembarking units I used them to bully lanes and charge units to soak overwatch and force a line of russes to keep falling back/not shoot. Also gangblocked knights.

 

Always took the 4++, they soaked up firepower that can fell a repulsor. Plus with Fly they always had a shooting phase to threaten troops.

 

I myself may not get them for my lists post supplement as deepstriking into Surgical Strikes is a big deal for my lists. So I'm taking more bodies, it was the different of a double Battalion for 13 cp vs 8 cp.

[Claws and Effect]

Hmm.

 

I have a quandary.

 

I have a killy smash Captain that I kitted out with a hammer and combi-melta.

 

I'm stuck on the best way to run him for killing big stuff like Knight characters.

 

Do I give him Champion of Humanity and Shard of Istvaan and bank on more of my attacks connecting?

 

Or

 

Do I master craft his hammer and give him a different Warlord Trait?

 

Or

 

Do I do some other combination?

[ShinyRhino]

I'm trying to think of a way to use the Gravis Captain. I've been holding off building and painting the model, but I'm thinking he and the rest of the characters from DI are next after I finish up my last bit of Shadowspear (Lib, LT, Eliminators).

 

I was always jealous of the Salamander "Anvil" build from the last codex, so I was thinking Armor of Shadows, then Iron Resolve (+1 W, 6++) and/or an RG trait.

He ends up with a boat load of wounds, the 6++ save, and makes 1,2,3 miss automatically.

 

Probably a terrible idea.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Hmm.

 

I have a quandary.

 

I have a killy smash Captain that I kitted out with a hammer and combi-melta.

 

I'm stuck on the best way to run him for killing big stuff like Knight characters.

 

Do I give him Champion of Humanity and Shard of Istvaan and bank on more of my attacks connecting?

 

Or

 

Do I master craft his hammer and give him a different Warlord Trait?

 

Or

 

Do I do some other combination?

 

 

For me I think its The Imperium's Sword + Master Crafted Thunder Hammer. It's simply a question of if you want to give up Slay the Warlord easily.

 

If you dont mind, then you can use Tri-Fold path to give him something else like Shadowmaster or maybe even Feigned Flight against the right opponent. 

If you DO mind, then you just give him Imperium's Sword with Hero strategem.

 

Re-rolling charges, Strength 10, 6 attacks, -3 4D

[MajorNese]

Swift and Deadly WL trait might give some mileage too, especially when he's got company nearby. Advance and charge, on a guy with 12" move and going over screens, should give you quite a surprising reach. That captain has to get into CC in the first place - if he fails, he's out in the open.

[Shadow Captain Nykona]

Hi all,

 

second ever post on B&C and first in the forum, please be kind if i'm missing the obvious stuff for my list and how i run my RG.

 

I run two battalions and a spearhead,

 

First Battalion 

 

Primaris Cpt, Power Fist & Plasma.

Warlord & Tri fold path - Ambush & Shadow master

 

Primaris Libby

Shadowstep - Umbral Form

Tome of Malcador - Might of Heroes

 

3 x 5 Intercessor's. One squad with Stalkers, other two with auxilary launchers.

 

5 Aggressors

 

2 x 3 Inceptor squads 

 

Thunderfire Cannon

 

Battalion 2,

 

Phobos Cpt

Hero of the Chapter - Lord of Deceit

Korvidan Bolts

 

Phobos Lt

Ex Tenebris 

 

Phobos Libby 

Enveloping Darkness - Spectral Blade

Silentus Pistol

 

2 x 5 Infultrator Squds

 

1 x 5 Intercessor squad - Stalkers

 

1 Sppressor Squad 

 

Spearhead

 

Shrike 

 

3 x Eliminator Squads 

 

I have played my friend and his Ad-Mech army twice and both times it has not gone past turn 3 due to me maxing out on ICT secondary points and being in too much of a commanding position on the board. I have not gone first in either game and have used Lord of Deceit to re position my eliminators to more safe locations, also after being seized on to move the aggressors and Cpt out of sight and in cover. 

 

My characters all go off hunting for other characters, MoH is cast of Shrike to make him even more amazing! I know i do not have a lot of anti tank, mass heavy bolter shots from the Inceptors has been doing the ranged work of either killing my friends dune crawlers or taking the down to 1/2 wounds. Aggressors in combat are no joke with full re-rolls from shrike, falling back from combat, shooting before charging back in or on to another unit is just amazing in my experience so far.

 

Sorry for the long rambling post.

[Dracos]

Welcome to the Ravenspire. Looks like a sound list. Are you using LoD on the Eliminators to position them outside your own deployment zone? I’ve been told I can’t use them that way though I haven’t found a rule yet that makes sense why I can’t use their Concealed Positions

[Shadow Captain Nykona]

Hi Dracos,

 

Thank you for the welcome.

 

No i am using LoD to re position them if i need to before the first turn takes place. As i am reading it as deploy them again as if it was how they would deploy normally in the mission, i.e deploy with concealed positions like their normal rules for deployment in the mission. Now i am wondering if i am reading it wrong  .

[Nusquam]

Welcome

 

First thing is that the wording on the tome relic changed in the new codex, it doesnt grant a Librarius power anymore and Umbramancy replaces Librarius for that detachment in terms of accesss. So it's all on the same table. To which I have considered a Phobos libby in my second battalion for Umbramancy and the regular one in my first battalion for Librarius as a buff bot.

[Shadow Captain Nykona]

Hi Nusquam,

 

Thank you   

 

I thought with the wording being "can know all of their powers from the Umbramancy discipline instead of the Librarius or Obscuration disciplines", meaning they still have access to the other powers with ToM allowing a power from any that you could have potentially picked from. So i could pick MoH and Null zone plus one Umbramancy for example, or two Umbramancy and one Librarius as long as i pay the tax of taking ToM. 

[Nusquam]

The "can" is so you're not forced to take umbra, the "know all of.. instead of" is the replacement effect. I dont see it the other way so I'll leave it at "your mileage may vary" with this one.

 

I do like the list though. RG definitely play ITC well. Playing the mission is a big advantage.

[Bluflash]

Also LoD was faq'd in Shadowspear to clarify that you redeploy per the mission rules, not with any abilities.

 

So you can deploy agressive and pull back if you get 2nd, but you can't spring forward if you go first.

 

Otherwise looks like a solid list.

[SyNidus]

Also LoD was faq'd in Shadowspear to clarify that you redeploy per the mission rules, not with any abilities.

 

So you can deploy agressive and pull back if you get 2nd, but you can't spring forward if you go first.

 

Otherwise looks like a solid list.

Does that still apply? LoD is from codex SM

 

I tried three games with impulsor proxies with my hellblasters when the new dex dropped and I loved them.

 

3 with 5man helblasters, and a character each with banner, nullzone libby, and captain. They're basically turn one Primaris drop pods.

 

After disembarking units I used them to bully lanes and charge units to soak overwatch and force a line of russes to keep falling back/not shoot. Also gangblocked knights.

 

Always took the 4++, they soaked up firepower that can fell a repulsor. Plus with Fly they always had a shooting phase to threaten troops.

 

I myself may not get them for my lists post supplement as deepstriking into Surgical Strikes is a big deal for my lists. So I'm taking more bodies, it was the different of a double Battalion for 13 cp vs 8 cp.

Also Nus, i’m quite curious about this too. It sounds like the impulsors gave you a lot of utility.

[MajorNese]

 

Also LoD was faq'd in Shadowspear to clarify that you redeploy per the mission rules, not with any abilities.

 

So you can deploy agressive and pull back if you get 2nd, but you can't spring forward if you go first.

 

Otherwise looks like a solid list.

Does that still apply? LoD is from codex SM

The wording is extremely obscure, GW used the term "Deployment" for a phase, a mission paragraph and a model placing, but those have no interaction with each other. Hence it's quite common for people to mix it up. GW FAQed it for the Shadowspear WL trait (as Q&A clarification, not rules change), but I can't say if they did it for the codex version (with identical wording) too.

 

The short version of it:

You remove the models from the board. Then you set them up as described "Deployment" paragraph of the mission. And that paragraph explicitly states that every model has to be in your deployment zone when you are done.

 

Concealed Positions is limited to the Deployment phase, not anything called "deploy" or "Deployment". At the time LoD comes into play, the Deployment phase is already over, so the ability never applied to it in the first place.

[Shadow Captain Nykona]

Hi Blueflash and MajorNese,

 

After going over it again the WL trait does say at the start of the first battle round but before the first turn begins. This is definitely out of the deployment phase, which i now feel slightly silly i haven't full grasped before now. Luckily in my two games with my friend i hadn't deployed them back out of my deployment zone only used it to move them back in to mine and out of LoS. Glad it has been clarified for me before i attend Blood & Glory, my first ever tournament and don't look more of fool.

[MajorNese]

Yep, no big deal on a casual setting, and as I've said you're not the first on that particular rule. GW and their wording is often obscure and/or confusing, and there are several interactions that were RAW entirely undefined (like the interactions between IFs additional hits by Bolter Drill and effects that trigger on 6s).

 

But at least this keeps RG from being the "hit or miss" faction where people entirely gear for having turn 1, and are royally screwed if not. Because if we could deploy them wherever we wanted, people would gear up for guaranteed first turn charges instead of looking beyond those simple solutions.

 

 

In unrelated news...I'm looking for some inspiration on vehicles.

My primaris guys have all the Tarantulas I could wish for, 2x Repulsor/Redemptor, and 3x Invictors in the mail. In short, every primaris vehicle except for the Executioner and Impulsor, or the FW superheavies.

 

Which other vehicle (converted oldmarine if necessary) would actually work well with our guys?

With RG doctrine they all get improved armour saves, but mobile heavy weapons are still firing at a penalty since we're not IH, and there are otherwise no real vehicle buffs.

But mobility is what most primaris armies lack - it's either dreads, or slow Repulsors/footsloggers, not much to create and keep up pressure/board control.

Any ideas?

[Shadow Captain Nykona]

I have 2 Repulsors, 2 dreads and the Astruas (which is a beast!). I don't feel RG are that geared for Mech atm, the Impuslor might change that with it's low cost, speed and ability to get out, move and shoot.

 

Mobile hellblaster hit and run squads could be really fun to use like Nusquam pointed out 

[Malakithe]

I would think RG would prefer to use more fliers then actual battle tanks and such.

[SyNidus]

Yeah, i think the fliers would benefit most...if they weren't so expensive i'd fit an airwing into my army just because i like the idea of it.