Raven Guard Retex and tactica

[MajorNese]

Yeah, I guess they would.

Flyers like the Stormtalon could work, but to be honest, without any ability to claim ground they clear, they are rather limited to killing backfield stuff. Which might be worth it after all, considering those units can't be targeted reliably by our backfield stuff.

 

I'd have loved it if LandSpeeders or their variants (Tempest, Storm, Javelin) were at least able to shoot without penalty, as they fit the theme better.

As I've noticed now, Big Guns Never Tire strat might help out in that regard - it's ignoring the penalty for an entire unit, not just a single model. That would make larger landspeeder units more viable, but that's still not exactly a particularly powerful combo.

 

Well, once the infantry batch is off the table, I'll start with the Invictors and a Stormtalon or two. From then on I'll see what comes up...

[ShinyRhino]

Yeah, I guess they would.

Flyers like the Stormtalon could work, but to be honest, without any ability to claim ground they clear, they are rather limited to killing backfield stuff. Which might be worth it after all, considering those units can't be targeted reliably by our backfield stuff.

 

I'd have loved it if LandSpeeders or their variants (Tempest, Storm, Javelin) were at least able to shoot without penalty, as they fit the theme better.

As I've noticed now, Big Guns Never Tire strat might help out in that regard - it's ignoring the penalty for an entire unit, not just a single model. That would make larger landspeeder units more viable, but that's still not exactly a particularly powerful combo.

 

Well, once the infantry batch is off the table, I'll start with the Invictors and a Stormtalon or two. From then on I'll see what comes up...

Big Guns Never Tire is absolutely filthy when used on a full squadron of Speeders with heavy bolters and Assault cannons. Move them 20" (via Antigrav Upwash), use Big Guns, then hit with 18 assault cannon and 9 heavy bolter shots at standard BS. Do it first turn and that's all at AP -2 from Devastator Doctrine.

[Malakithe]

As far as fliers go the Storm Eagle might fit well with RG as a fluffy choice. Costs roughly similar to an Executioner, can move without penalty, tankier over all, and has similar firepower, and can transport 

[Archon_77]

*snip*

 

Big Guns Never Tire is absolutely filthy when used on a full squadron of Speeders with heavy bolters and Assault cannons. Move them 20" (via Antigrav Upwash), use Big Guns, then hit with 18 assault cannon and 9 heavy bolter shots at standard BS. Do it first turn and that's all at AP -2 from Devastator Doctrine.

 

 

 

Oh that is gross!  If only we had a Captain that could move 14" and keep up with those speeders to provide rerolls.... ;)

[Nusquam]

SyNidus, they were definitely a utility unit. Impulsors dont kill very well but they can get cargo in a good spot turn one and then fly around charging things and blocking stuff. Being able to charge things and force them out of a round of shooting, like russes, was great. They didnt have to kill anything but two of them kept two trusses from firing beyond turn one and have me time to clear objectives and keep my hellblasters alive.

[Brom MKIV]

 

In unrelated news...I'm looking for some inspiration on vehicles.

My primaris guys have all the Tarantulas I could wish for, 2x Repulsor/Redemptor, and 3x Invictors in the mail. In short, every primaris vehicle except for the Executioner and Impulsor, or the FW superheavies.

 

Which other vehicle (converted oldmarine if necessary) would actually work well with our guys?

With RG doctrine they all get improved armour saves, but mobile heavy weapons are still firing at a penalty since we're not IH, and there are otherwise no real vehicle buffs.

But mobility is what most primaris armies lack - it's either dreads, or slow Repulsors/footsloggers, not much to create and keep up pressure/board control.

Any ideas?

I'm in a similar boat. For one I don't want this army (which I'm rebuilding since selling my last RG force) to function too much like my others. And more so I feel mech brings vulnerability to this type of force. 

 

Anyway flyers are top of my list right now, specifically 1 talon 1 hawk to start with. I want some distractions from my elims and a way to potentially get LOS on units like TFC buried in ruins. 

 

On that note I've been considering a single impulsor. Don't really need the transport capacity but the things are pretty utility. In my case the main reason to consider it is to double up on orbital bombardment. Combined with the strat this could punish opponents who like to castle up. From there it would soak OW and basically be annoying. Probably won't make the cut but I like the theory craft with it.

 

Besides those options I feel a chaplain dread suits the army well. Character status with twin las and prayers is fairly solid considering AT options aren't easy to come by. Could be combined with one quad las relic contemptor for two durable AT options since one can't be picked out easy. 

 

Thats where I'm at. Refuse to use my leviathan at this point until some things get cleared up. 

[Claws and Effect]

I love my Fire Raptor.

 

Haven't used it with the new rules yet, but I'm looking forward to making a Knight player poop themselves when it opens up on it turn 2.

[MajorNese]

FAQs for the supplements are out, here.

 

In short:

Master of Ambush is changed - the warlord has to be infantry too. No MoA chaplain dread.

 

"See, but remain unseen" is not used in a specific phase, and thereby can be used multiple times per turn.

 

Stranglehold stacks with Callidus effect.

 

A weapon shooting Korvidari bolts is not considered a relic, thereby it can be combined with Marksman's Honours.

[chapter master 454]

-Feels Vindicated!-

 

Interesting about see but remain unseen though.

[duz_]

FAQs for the supplements are out, here.

 

"See, but remain unseen" is not used in a specific phase, and thereby can be used multiple times per turn.

 

 

 

Wait so at the end of you can nominate any number of units to apply this strat too? Interesting.... Interesting....

 

That's really neat for close support style units run them up and even if they're not in cover they get -1 to hit with no range limitation, nor INFANTRY requirement

 

Seen but unseen Redemptors and Warsuits anyone

[Dracos]

quote] A weapon shooting Korvidari bolts is not considered a relic, thereby it can be combined with Marksman's Honours.

 

If only Ex Tenebris oils work with Marksman Honors the same way :(

[MajorNese]

That's really neat for close support style units run them up and even if they're not in cover they get -1 to hit with no range limitation, nor INFANTRY requirement

 

Seen but unseen Redemptors and Warsuits anyone

...or anything with smoke launchers. Advancing Ironclad at -2 to hit and still in cover against anything that doesn't want to end up in (short) charge range.

[duz_]

Yeh thought about that after posting zoom up a repulsor pop the -2 to hit and assault next turn safely ish?

[MajorNese]

I can make no causal sense of that sentence. It involves a Repulsor and not shooting...nope, not with that amount of guns. That would be a waste, since it's more a heavy battletank than an assault transport.

 

If you want a transport that's unappealing to shoot at, an Impulsor would be interesting maybe. 3+/4++, cover, -1 to hit should not be the highest point on the target priority.

[Brom MKIV]

Sooo IH faq was just updated. They got down graded to copper hands now. 

[MajorNese]

Yep, that was foreseeable. Nothing is allowed to overshadow Eldar and Smurfs...

 

Interesting that they changed unit/strat rules so quickly - Girlyman broke the entire V1 codex for anyone not playing smurfs, but GW took its sweet time with that one when it came to removing the one buff that broke everything...

[Brom MKIV]

Well I'm pretty happy about it. They're weren't crushed just toned back a bit on some abusive elements. IH is still very good in the flyers dreads and infantry depts.  

[Nusquam]

Well now I'm never not taking a Phobos Cap with the bolts and Marksmen. Didnt expect that since it's the relic bolt doing the damage but I'll always take a buff.

 

See, But Remain Unseen is very interesting. There's definitely an end step that isn't a phase. Too bad we cant trigger it unless we have a turn.

[SyNidus]

Well now I'm never not taking a Phobos Cap with the bolts and Marksmen. Didnt expect that since it's the relic bolt doing the damage but I'll always take a buff.

 

See, But Remain Unseen is very interesting. There's definitely an end step that isn't a phase. Too bad we cant trigger it unless we have a turn.

Man, this just made my decisions a little harder. Ex tenebris LT or Korvidari Marksman Cap?

[chapter master 454]

I want to point out people were trying to say the Korvidari bolt was actually replacing the weapon with itself or turning the weapon itself into a relic. I was saying it only adds an ability to the character related to one of their bolt weapons. It is a good clarification.

However it isn't an auto-include as it does eat a relic and WT slot. Naturally if you don't have anything in particular to take then fair enough go for it or if you just want to double down and have a second phobos captain in need of a relic and Tenebris is already used, not a bad choice. To be fair, the big part of the weapon is the natural power in sniping a large section of support characters and some main line HQs when it has 4 damage. Combined with +1 to hit and wound (and if you have master artisans, that is in effect full re-rolls) on top of AP3, it can with little effort remove characters with impunity. Rightly though, the one shot does hurt it. In my testing with it (without marksmen, I was hedging against the unfavourable ruling for testing purposes) it can be quite a potent tool and could shock your opponent more than once knowing they can't hide.

 

(and quick oof for the iron hands. I saw the first version and now seeing the new one yikes, Iron Stone got hammered along with dreads now!)

[SkimaskMohawk]

And the warlord trait explicitly didn't work with any relic, weapon or not. It's the opposite of a clarification 

[Brom MKIV]

I think the bolts were custom made with the trait in mind. Even so I'm not sold on the combo.  Hmm xenos won't like it and it might even worry TFC techy's although they always have 3+ against it. 

 

Edit- Wait theres soul sight.. This thing got a bit better. What other buffs can we stack on that combo now? 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Soul sight doesnt do anything on a ph. Captain with bolts.

 

Edit: Nvm, was under the impression they ignored cover too for some reason.

[L30n1d4s]

You can take a Successor Chapter with the Master Artisans trait.... that means your Phobos Captain has a 36" range BS2+ S4 AP-2 Dmg 4 weapon that Ignores LOS, rerolls a missed to Hit AND a missed to Wound roll... once you get into Tactical Doctrine, then it becomes AP-3 and adds another +1 to Hit and to Wound vs Characters.... about the only thing saving a 4W character at that point is being in a vehicle, having a good invul, or a FNP save if some sort.

[chapter master 454]

Like I stated when i presented the combo, you also take long range marksmen for another 3" so 39" range threat bubble.

 

Fun thing I want to point out for raven guard: Their Eliminators can get up to +5 to hit. +1 from guided, +1 from doctrine benefit, +2 from mortis and +1 from a chaplain. They hit you so good they shot you last turn!

 

Also, I want to talk about how "it doesn't work with relics" talk. At what point, at any point, does the relic "replace" the weapon and become the weapon used? It merely picks a weapon to augment. As I state, it isn't a weapon relic, it is like an Ironstone, Malcador tome, or Helm of Censure in that it actually adds a unique ability to the model instead of being a direct relic. In that regard.

 

Basically, all relics can be broken into 2 categories: Weapon relics and Item Relics. Weapon Relics replace a weapon the character is carrying and is directly a relic itself, such as Ex Tenebris or Primarch's Wrath. Item Relics however do NOT replace something the character is wearing/using and instead is just added onto the character adding additional abilities or boons.

 

However I think there is a very VERY VERY fringe scenario where we could Master-Craft a weapon on a phobos character (such as their pistols I believe they have) and the Warlord trait wouldn't work with it which causes very wonky precedents. 

 

However as it stands, Korvidari bolts work with it and D4 is a very odd break point for a character targeting weapon to work with to be honest, going to rummage around see what I can find to combo with the captain. Never know, may be better choices or even more silliness available.