Road to FA Cup - Hong Kong ITC - Nov 2019

[Morticon]

DC blown away again, even when deployed in cover :/

Did you write up a batrep bud? curious to see what happened/how it went! 

Do you use VanVets at all?  

Also, did he have no LOS stuff? 

[The Unseen]

Curious Morticon, about the fists in your DC compared to Hammers.

I know there cheaper, but I've been burned by d3 damage before.

How has it been for you?

 

Also, love the pure BA list.

It's very similar to what I've been playing and having success with.

[Morticon]

Curious Morticon, about the fists in your DC compared to Hammers.

I know there cheaper, but I've been burned by d3 damage before.

How has it been for you?

 

Also, love the pure BA list.

It's very similar to what I've been playing and having success with.

 

 

They're brilliant, and I dont see myself going back to hammers again.  

 

It's 3 hammers vs 5 fists, 12 attacks vs 20.  The d3 damage evens out nicely - also, more importantly, vs single wound tough models, you're smashing with wounding on 2s with a boat load of attacks - throw in Astorath and you're laughing. 

 

If you're used to 2 hammers in a DC squad, i can understand.  If you're used to 5 for example, try 8 fists! I promise, you wont be sorry. 

[Morticon]

The issue i was having with my vanvets before was that I was taking 2 fists, and maybe  a powersword.  I'm going min 5 fists now.  It's making a very big difference- even more so with shock assault. 

[Panzer]

The adjusted points really make fists shine in a unit where you have the freedom to equip every model how you want. If it's just one model and you have to decide between fist or hammer (Sergeants or charakters or such) I'd still always go for the hammer though.

[Morticon]

The adjusted points really make fists shine in a unit where you have the freedom to equip every model how you want. If it's just one model and you have to decide between fist or hammer (Sergeants or charakters or such) I'd still always go for the hammer though.

 

I'd be inclined to agree with this.

[Jolemai]

 

 

DC blown away again, even when deployed in cover :/

Did you write up a batrep bud? curious to see what happened/how it went!

Do you use VanVets at all?

Also, did he have no LOS stuff?

Nothing to say really. Deployed in cover, gambled on first turn which I lost, got wiped out from tank fire (I was up against a twin Baneblade list).

 

No better place to deploy and whilst I suppose I could have dropped them T2, I was after a T1 charge in tandem with my Smash Captain (despite not being built for the +1 to the roll for first turn - BRB missions).

 

Non-ITC cover rules so not a great deal of LoS terrain and nine that can hide ten DC.

 

Basically, I dropped my SG for DC and I'm not getting to grips with it yet. No VAS modelled.

[Morticon]

That's what I was curious about- if it was direct fire or not.  Not much help I can offer in that regard, if there's literally no place to hide 10 marine models out of LOS - i would feel that's an issue with the table. 

Maybe look to the VanVets next project?

[Morticon]

I'm sad to say it, but there's a strong chance I may not make the tourney on account of the trouble that side. 

Also, Ive stumbled on a RG list that plays almost identically to my BA list, but more fun, stronger and more versatile - so...would likely be taking that! ><; 

[The Unseen]

 

Curious Morticon, about the fists in your DC compared to Hammers.

I know there cheaper, but I've been burned by d3 damage before.

How has it been for you?

 

Also, love the pure BA list.

It's very similar to what I've been playing and having success with.

 

 

They're brilliant, and I dont see myself going back to hammers again.  

 

It's 3 hammers vs 5 fists, 12 attacks vs 20.  The d3 damage evens out nicely - also, more importantly, vs single wound tough models, you're smashing with wounding on 2s with a boat load of attacks - throw in Astorath and you're laughing. 

 

If you're used to 2 hammers in a DC squad, i can understand.  If you're used to 5 for example, try 8 fists! I promise, you wont be sorry. 

 

 

I guess you also get to pick up bolters too, which is a nice bonus.

But yeah, my usual forlorn fury squad only runs 2 hammers, since they usually end up running into infantry, but I do have the ability to smack a counter-charging character if they try being cute, and makes the unit a threat to characters and tanks the turn after, forcing people to deal with them.

 

My Descent of Angels squad runs 3 hammers... I can see the appeal of 5 fists instead. Makes them worse vs 1 wound infantry, but my list doesn't exactly struggle with that anyway.

20 attacks is probably enough to make the d3 damage roll average enough to be fine.

 

Thanks Mort, have something new to try now.

 

And not that I'd swap to RG anyway, but what is said RG list then?

Edited October 15, 2019 by The Unseen

[Morticon]

(Interestingly enough- I've found the 5 fists makes them better vs 1 wound infantry on account of the 2+ to wound and no save!)

As for the RG, I'm looking at this:

 

Phobos Cap (relic gun in some cases)

"Slaplain" build Chaplain (relic crozius, with Sword of Imp. and mantra) - jp

Chaplain - JP (WL - ambush and shadowstalker with +2 charge)

Librarian - bike, axe (usually tome) - Null Zone, Might of Heroes and no OW power. 

 

10x Intercessors - Autobolt Gun, Hammer (usually these guys get blinged)

10x Intercessors - Stalkers

5x Scouts

5x Snipers

5x Snipers

5x Snipers

 

10x VanVets -5fists, 9 shields

10x VanVets - 5fists, 8 shields

 

Thunderfire Cannon

Thunderfire Cannon

 

Contemptor Mortis -las

Contemptor Mortis -las


Plays a LOT like my BA, but even more aggressive.  Has more solutions for a lot of things.  It burns a LOT of CP pregame though (Around 6, but 8 if I go first).

Vs Knights its a GREAT matchup (assuming I hang tight for turn 1).  I'm really excited to play it.  

(Uses Artisans and Whirlwind, btw!) 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Morticon

[Lynnean]

Its kinda sad raven guard does our trick better atm.

 

I want the new book!

[Xenith]

Hi Mort, can't really offer much comment as I havent played competitively in a while, but I'm building a van vet squad pretty soon and was wondering what you'd consider a 'strong' VV build? I see you're running with 10 shields, 4 fists now, but previously it was a handful of power weapons? 

 

I'm strongly considering a full 'sword and board' squad, which would be super cheap - a couple of fists in there would be useful though I guess.

[Morticon]

Hi Mort, can't really offer much comment as I havent played competitively in a while, but I'm building a van vet squad pretty soon and was wondering what you'd consider a 'strong' VV build? I see you're running with 10 shields, 4 fists now, but previously it was a handful of power weapons? 

 

I'm strongly considering a full 'sword and board' squad, which would be super cheap - a couple of fists in there would be useful though I guess.

 

 

5 Fists!!! 

 

DC by themselves with shock assault put out 4 attacks each with the +1 to wound., while VV put out 3. 

VV have a 3++ and are likely to use Wings or DS + Descent , while DC have the 6+++ and are likely to use forlorn.  They work wonderfully together

But, here's the thing - with regards to BA, you need some kind of force multipliers. 

 

Astorath

Chaplain

Rage/Shield Libby (Phobos works a charm for this! Or otherwise Mephy's 3rd power)

Sanguinor, 

Captain.

Lieut. 

Those units combo REALLY well with the VV (and stacked with each other) - Ive ranked in personal pref order.

 

I really didnt like my VV before, and they were lackluster.   But, shock assault + a different tooling changed that up for me.  Having 5 fists REALLY meant that they were putting out severe damage.  I used them as harassment units, engaging with enemies - but rarely did they do anything.  With 5 fists, they now fight really well.   I strongly recommend this build. 

 

 

Its kinda sad raven guard does our trick better atm.

 

I want the new book!

Dude- its really, really sad.  But, I'm happy to use my models and heraldry with rules that I think better represent my lore and "my" Angels. 

 

So, i'm all good.  

 

 

 

 

[Morticon]

Highlight of last tournament for me was my buffed (Mass of Doom + rerolls)  DC (not even fully buffed with +1 from Rage) charging a knight and one-timing it.  It's not a once off thing either.  With that combo, its quite easy to do.   

 

[Semirhagge]

In your Double batt mono BA list, what do the rest of the VVs have along with the shield? chainsword s?

[Morticon]

In your Double batt mono BA list, what do the rest of the VVs have along with the shield? chainsword s?

Just chainswords and shields- i realised that the list I posted above had 4 fists (i think in retrospect, i would try find points to make it 5 if humanly possible). 

In previous iterations, I have used 10 man, with 8 shields, 5 fists and 2 with double chainswords.  The VV always need to take MW or standard saves, which is where the non shields come in. 

[keeblerartillery]

Mort - just had a game against raven guard today. Pretty much won it after the first turn. Granted, I seized, so that was a big part of it - but let me endorse sanguinary guard with an ancient as the warlord. Six dudes + ancient with fists, with rerolls is brutal. Supported by two invictors, death company + astorath and slam? Man did I put out some hurt. My sicarans really didn’t pull their weight - they’ve been consistently solid but never great. Trying to find a replacement. But you should give them a chance

[Morticon]

Yeh dude!!! Tim (Shazeus on BnC) plays that locally -he rocks 8-10 SG with the Ancient - and he does very, very well!!!! 

I'm going to look to playing RG for the upcoming tourney *IF* i go, but i'm unsure if i will.  Awesome to hear the feedback though.  I'll ty a SG build in the near future.

[Morticon]

So....

I went to the tourney.  

 

Good news, bad news. 



Bad news is, as noted, I went Raven Guard (which are now kinda so BA+ , it hurts).

 

Good news is.....I won it :D 

[keeblerartillery]

So....

I went to the tourney.

 

 

Good news, bad news.

 

 

 

Bad news is, as noted, I went Raven Guard (which are now kinda so BA+ , it hurts).

 

Good news is.....I won it :D

I WANT to congratulate you...but feel dirty doing so

[Morticon]

 

So....

I went to the tourney.

 

 

Good news, bad news.

 

 

 

Bad news is, as noted, I went Raven Guard (which are now kinda so BA+ , it hurts).

 

Good news is.....I won it

I WANT to congratulate you...but feel dirty doing so

[Xenith]

I have conflicting emotions regarding this news  , but well done nonetheless!

 

I mean, rules are rules, as long as they're played in the spirit of BA right?

 

So the 2x 10 intercessors worked?

 

As I begin the Primaris upgrade to my army, I'm looking at replacing my objective holding and objective approaching units of tacs with perhaps 2x5 auto and stalker intercessors. The 24" range on boltguns hanging back feels wasted. Other options are sniper scouts. 

[Jolemai]

For those who (quite rightly...) don't follow the RG forum and rules, what is the main differences that currently reside between us and how would a similar BA list have performed in your view?

 

Historically, you tend to play better with BA as you have to considering what we are normally up against. Did you need to reach those levels with the RG force?

[Charlo]

For those who (quite rightly...) don't follow the RG forum and rules, what is the main differences that currently reside between us and how would a similar BA list have performed in your view?

 

Historically, you tend to play better with BA as you have to considering what we are normally up against. Did you need to reach those levels with the RG force?

-Extra AP across most of the shooting

-Bonuses to Hit/ Wound against enemy characters

-Better defences with chapter tactics

-Stratagem to infiltrate any unit

-Can also negate overwatch (WLT instead of Relic)

-Stratagem to Advance and charge with jump unit with a +1 to charge

-Stratagem to fall back and charge

-Can take two WLT on one Character for maximum shenanigans

 

So basically, more mobile than us and just as hitty where it counts.