Oppressor's End

[SyNidus]

Is anyone else itching to somehow make this relic work?

I think this could make quite a powerful close combat character Assassin. But how though?

[MajorNese]

...to be honest, no, not really.

 

Most characters have some other weaponry that does pretty much the same, but named differently. Chainswords, paired combat blades and such.

So far, the only character I know of to have that thing is the phobos lieutenant without grav chute, and that is hardly a mobile assassin. The only way to get them surprisingly close would be the deep strike strat.

 

And the profile doesn't seem too impressive, compared to other relics or even standard stuff - Teeth of Terra has 2D and +3A, but same S and AP. The only above-average quality of the knife is 3D against chars.

[SyNidus]

...to be honest, no, not really.

 

Most characters have some other weaponry that does pretty much the same, but named differently. Chainswords, paired combat blades and such.

So far, the only character I know of to have that thing is the phobos lieutenant without grav chute, and that is hardly a mobile assassin. The only way to get them surprisingly close would be the deep strike strat.

 

And the profile doesn't seem too impressive, compared to other relics or even standard stuff - Teeth of Terra has 2D and +3A, but same S and AP. The only above-average quality of the knife is 3D against chars.

 

I was thinking maybe 5A, wounding on 3s or 2s with the doctrine, doing 3 damage each might be able to zero a character in one round.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Kind of touched on this in the other thread so let's do it again.

 

Both phobos captain and lieutenant (in reiver mode) can take the relic. If you pair it with imperiums sword, you get 8 and 7 str 6 attacks respectively. On turn 1, you can use lay low the tyrants to hit and wound all toughness 5 and lower on 2s; turn 2 you're benefiting from surgical strikes.

 

In terms of getting them into combat, the captain has concealed positions for a threatening deployment and can get closer with infiltrators, but there's more options. Strike from the shadows, master of ambush, shadowstep and even temporal corridor if you take swift and deadly as well as the initial trait; once you're close, imperiums sword really helps the charge going off.

 

In terms of math; once you're wounding on 2s (so turn 1 vs t5 and lower with lay low the tyrants and turn 2 vs t6 and lower with it) the captain generates 9 damage against something with a 4++; the lt does about 8. They'll kill just about any character that's hideable and can assassinate big ones that have taken just a bit of damage like flyrants. In contrast, the teeth of terra captain with imperiums sword will do 6 damage to 4++ characters.

 

Basically, oppressors end is really strong at killing characters, but more traditional weapons give more utility; teeth of terra is better against other targets, as is a thunder hammer (though you pay both a lot of points and a to-hit modifier for that utility). Personally, I like it the most on a captain as you have a lot of synergy with his gun; support the backfield clump turn 1 and maybe soften a target up and then shadowstep him in turn 2 and kill something (also shoot again because that gun is great). You can really throw people off, as the model is known for his shooting and will be far less expected than a thunder hammer or bike captain. That being said, a lt is really quite cheap.

[MajorNese]

You're right, that's a lot better than I expected. And considering how fragmented our supplement discussions are currently, I'm not even aware which other thread this might be.

 

Though it is quite an investment - relic, WL trait(s), strats, psychic powers, as well as quite a few hoops to jump through.

I guess I stick to just shooting that guy from across the table instead, as (with my luck) such overspecialized tricks tend to go sideways in the least opportune moment.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I mean, every strong melee character is going to usually have a relic and imperiums sword at the very least. The rest all kind of depend on how you want this guy to appear and how many command points you want to spend. Shadowstep has a chance to fail, but doesn't cost cp. Stfts costs a cp, as does any extra warlord traits floating around, but if you take master of ambush on the Assassin character, you still get to reposition another unit too. In the end, the phobos captain is the more versatile since he comes with concealed positions and has his own deepstrike push back.

[Claws and Effect]

Will probably stick it on the Phobos Lieutenant and not bother with any of the extra bells and whistles.

 

1CP on the extra relic is enough investment. He can deep strike with grav chutes. If he murders a character, cool. If he dies in the attempt he was cheap enough I'm not out much.

 

Will likely do that in lower points games where I'm not running 5 characters.

[VanDutch]

Taking this with Champion of Humanity could also be hilariously effective against T5 characters without invuls.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Will probably stick it on the Phobos Lieutenant and not bother with any of the extra bells and whistles.

 

1CP on the extra relic is enough investment. He can deep strike with grav chutes. If he murders a character, cool. If he dies in the attempt he was cheap enough I'm not out much.

 

Will likely do that in lower points games where I'm not running 5 characters.

You can't take it on the chute version. Paired combat blades instead of combat knife.

 

@van Dutch, you pretty much can just save a CP against t4 and t7 characters. Invuls don't really matter much unless they're 3+, the sheer damage is enough to kill them.

[Claws and Effect]

Taking this with Champion of Humanity could also be hilariously effective against T5 characters without invuls.

Bye Mephiston.

[Nusquam]

Dial it up more by giving him the Master of Vigilance via Trifold. Big investment but deadly. I looked at this relic a few times but every character I gave it to had better relic options it felt like.

[SkimaskMohawk]

My only issue with that, is that you only average 1.3 6s off 8 attacks. It doesn't push you into the realm of killing guilliman, abbadon or calgar in one shot as you only do 7 damage total. Of course investing even more into chapter master to fish produces better results, but at that point you might as well take the teeth of terra character on bike.

[Dracos]

I appreciate this discussion having its own thread. I’ll be using both a Grav-Lt and Phobos Capt but haven’t gotten as far as deciding what relics and traits optimally combine with my overall game plan. I definitely want to use this relic though.

 

These decisions are particularly harder for a Primaris army ;)

[SkimaskMohawk]

I'm very happy with the supplement because there's so many different choices for each unit in terms of deployment or role.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

There was a fun discussion on Master of Vigilance on the warhammer competitive subreddit yesterday (I have been looking at builds to abuse this WL Trait). Located here https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/d95qjn/master_of_vigilance_raven_guard_trait_untapped/

 

Some of that overlaps a tad here with Oppressor's End.

 

I have been toying with Oppressor's End lately, and I am warming up the idea of it on a Reiver Sergeant in a unit of 5 with Bolter Carbines.

 

Given, I have very little experience with Reivers thus far, but what limited experience that I do have is this: I use them to go after weak backfield units that are artillery/buffing type units (Mortar teams, Weirdboys/other backline psykers, Devastators, etc). Oppressor's End is deceptively good on a Reiver Sergeant in this context. You drop on T2 with Tactical is active, the carbines can soften up or clear a small screen. You can put in the charge and he gets 4 attacks - 5 on the charge, that hit on 2s (against a character) and wound most other characters on 2s. For killing these buffing type characters, he is quite effective, and the unit is dead cheap and doesn't require extra investment in CP/Psychic powers.

 

Edit: Misread Favour of the Ravenspire strategem. Oh well.

 

I agree with Skimask, I think Master of Ambush is the most viable method of delivering this relic into CC. The only question for me with regards to that becomes this: If I am delivering a CC relic into close range via Master of Ambush, why not Benediction of Fury via a Chaplain instead. For me also, I think the Phobos LT is best suited to carry Ex Tenebris, which makes it a tougher fit (though I suppose I can see the argument for having it on the Phobos Captain).

[SkimaskMohawk]

A lot of it comes down to which models do people own, followed by the points costs.

 

For example, in terms of pure points efficiency, the tacticus lt with stalker is the best carrier of ex tenebris over the chute lt since he's 10pts cheaper. A normal chaplain is pretty much the same cost as reiver lt and does 8 damage, but needs mantra of strength to go off or else he's under performing the lt. A primaris chaplain can pretty much match the captain, but again needs mantra of strength.

 

If you're like me and bought the reiver lt because the model is sick, then its pretty much the only way to include one in a list without asking myself "why" .

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

For example, in terms of pure points efficiency, the tacticus lt with stalker is the best carrier of ex tenebris over the chute lt since he's 10pts cheaper. 

 

Actually 11 points, but who's counting 

 

For me personally, I think the combination of Comms Array with Infiltrators and the Phobos LT/Captain combo might be a bit of a sleeper, so I value him a bit higher in that regard.

 

 

A normal chaplain is pretty much the same cost as reiver lt and does 8 damage, but needs mantra of strength to go off or else he's under performing the lt. A primaris chaplain can pretty much match the captain, but again needs mantra of strength.

 

If you're like me and bought the reiver lt because the model is sick, then its pretty much the only way to include one in a list without asking myself "why" .

 

Reiver LT is 75 Points and 1 CP (with OP)

Primaris Chaplain is 77 Points and 1 CP (with BoF)

 

Reiver gets 5 attacks at S5, AP-2, D1 (3)

Chaplain gets 4 attacks at S6, AP-2, D3 - 6s to Wound cause a mortal wound

 

I would say they are pretty equal before the Mantra, to be honest. The Reiver gets one more attack, but the Chaplain does D3 against everything, with one more Strength. The Reiver is without a doubt better at killing characters, but the Chaplain is more flexible with better utility, I think.                                                                   

 

Edit: Im converting my new Revier LT into a Smash Captain 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Actually 11 points, but who's counting

Me; you have to pay for the mastercrafted stalker.

 

Reiver LT is 75 Points and 1 CP (with OP)

 

Primaris Chaplain is 77 Points and 1 CP (with BoF)

 

 

 

Reiver gets 5 attacks at S5, AP-2, D1 (3)

 

Chaplain gets 4 attacks at S6, AP-2, D3 - 6s to Wound cause a mortal wound

 

 

 

I would say they are pretty equal before the Mantra, to be honest. The Reiver gets one more attack, but the Chaplain does D3 against everything, with one more Strength. The Reiver is without a doubt better at killing characters, but the Chaplain is more flexible with better utility, I think.

Well here's the thing, you obviously have a very narrow use case for oppressors end; your main target is going to be a character, which means you're going to be using lay low the tyrant. The chaplain is for sure more general use, but that makes it's most desired matchups harder to determine. It really comes down to whether you value reliability and narrow use vs. Higher potential and more general use. For me though, if I want a general use beat stick, I'll shell out the points for a teeth of terra chapter master or chaplain dread or something.