Infiltrators - Worth building a list around?

[GenerationTerrorist]

Hi guys.

I love the new Mini-Codex. Definitely not overpowered, but rewards tactical play :-)

 

How are you guys doing with Infiltrators? Are they the go-to Troop choice?

 

I have built a list that includes a trio of 10-man squads with the Comms Array. I feel the Helix Adept is a waste of points.

With this, I am getting a boatload of rapid-fire, re-roll stuff that can operate autonomously of HQ buffs.

 

Do you think this can be semi-competitive? Or should I run one unit of Infiltrators and a pair of Scout units?

 

The rest of the army (Battalion, Spearhead, Vanguard Detachments) would be:

 

Phobos Lieutenant

Reiver Lieutenant

Phobos Librarian

Infiltrators

 

Phobos Captain

2* Las-Fusil Eliminator squads

1* Sniper Eliminator squad

 

Shrike

2*5 Knife/Pistol/Grapnel Reiver squads

Primaris Apothecary

1*Supressor squad

1*5 Bolter Inceptor squad

[Bluflash]

I love them, but I feel their biggest ability has diminishing returns, and they pay a pretty big points premium for that no deep strike aura. 

 

I'm running:

2x 5 infiltrators with coms for midfield holding and deep strike denial

2x 5 scouts with boltguns for cheap movement screen/forward ds denial/objective holding

2x 5 bolt rife intercessors w/ GL for back/midfield support/objective holding.

 

with 3x Bolt Rilfe Elims, 4x Assault Cents, and 2x Invictors for aggressive pressure/midfield gunline depending on 1st or 2nd turn.

 

I'd be careful going grapnel over grav chutes. RG can put on a lot of downfield pressure and if the enemy collapses into their deployment zone, you may be hard pressed to find a useful flanking spot to bring them in. Chutes would allow you a bit more space, including middle of table objectives and the like.

[Dracos]

I think they're a great unit but very pricey. Still going to go with two units of five to open the midfield for my Aggressors. Other four Troop slots going to Intercessors. They're just to good for the points imo.

 

Definitely with Bluflash on diminishing returns. Only so much room for forward operators with a unit that basically has no more offensive ability  than Reivers. I think one of the best uses is placing them in such a way you force your opponents into poor decision when it comes to DaJump or other Reserves.

[MajorNese]

Agree with Bluflash and Dracos - their utlity is good, but the returns diminish hard after 2 units.

 

Basically, 2 units can lock down most of the midfield when it comes to deep strike. Both can smoke for a turn (-2 to hit when in terrain), only one can receive another -1 by strat. And there they are - hopefully still around when deep strike has to happen, forcing bad positions for deep strikers, preventing charge from deep strike, and being a general but limited threat. Their firepower is barely above bolters, they're no better in CC, and at +5ppm compared to Intercessors (or +4 for the best midfield version, the autobolt) there is hardly a reason to ever include more of them.

 

The only way I see to build a list around them would probably be an all infiltrating/reinforcing force - Infiltrators for turn 1 charges, Invictors as larger threat, the redeployment WL trait/deep strike strat/transports/shadowstep/etc. for reinforcements. Grab board control turn 1, reinforce the center and launch disruption attacks on the deployment zone, and hope those guys won't get smoked by every plasma gun in rapid fire range.

[CCE1981]

Infiltrators can be interesting using Strike from the Shadows. If you have first turn, drop a 5-man unit on turn 2 on top of an objective it would be as good as sitting them in the table.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

I like where you're going with the Comms array and LT/CPT on the board, I do think it ups their value.

 

That being said, the points you pay for their aura is not cheap (30% more expensive than Intercessors). I think the thing to keep in mind is how you list-build. I personally like to build TAC (Take All Comers) lists, and in that situation, I don't think Infiltrators have a place beyond 1-2 min sized units. If you end up playing against an army with no forward elements/no deep strike (Like, say, a more standard Tau Triptide Castle list), I think you will find them to be over-costed and die very very easily putting out very little damage. 

[Galron]

I honestly cant figure out a use for them. Way too pricy for the usefulness. I would prefer a phobos captain to protect the shooters in the back and buy scouts and sniper scouts and intercessors for stalker rifles. Too many other good units with better firepower than to waste 100+ points on 5 guys.

[dode74]

They seem too expensive for my tastes.  If a Phobos Capt getting Chapter Master still allowed them to reroll then I might see a use for them in side-board forces, but as it is they're on their own.

[Archon_77]

I like them most to hold things midfield and make it harder for deepstrikers, and echo everyone here that no more than 2 5 man squads.  I feel as if they can't be AT or Anti-horde enough for much more compared to Eliminators or Intercessors.  They are a perfect example of a "get in their head" unit and should be used as such to backfoot the opponent.  They wont win you the game alone, but may force some poor decisions in deployment or movement that we have the tools elsewhere to capitalize on.  

[Dracos]

I’m going to follow up on Vyper’s thoughts.

 

If you find you’re going up against an army that deep strike denial is useless, I’d suggest turning them into Engineers or digging into hard to get to objectives. Shooting them off is going to quite a trick and usually it’s the shooty armies that lack the dangerous deepstike stuff.

[ImperialTuba]

For those of you who use 10 Infiltrators in your armies, do you take a single a squad of 10, or two squads of five? Also, in order to use the combat squads ability, do you have to pay the command points to use the stratagem, or is that only if you want them to break into squads once the battle has already started? Not exactly a question exclusive to Infiltrators, but this post really made me reconsider them.

[Jacques Corbin]

Well, why just midfield? They would be great to place in your own Deployment Zone. "Mistakenly" leave a gap or 2 in your deployment, your opponent will be salivating to drop Deep Strikers in there, and then, via Concealed Positions, you seal up those gaps. Now your opponent is disappointed, because you snatched that opportunity away, but now also has to rethink, on the fly, just what he will do with Deep Strikers, and the game is just about to start. For me, that beats having Intercessors in the backfield, and letting him plan, without any disruption/distraction, as I deploy.

[ShinyRhino]

For those of you who use 10 Infiltrators in your armies, do you take a single a squad of 10, or two squads of five? Also, in order to use the combat squads ability, do you have to pay the command points to use the stratagem, or is that only if you want them to break into squads once the battle has already started? Not exactly a question exclusive to Infiltrators, but this post really made me reconsider them.

I currently use a single squad of 10. If you want to use Combat Squads before the battle, you have to declare EVERY unit that will split before anyone puts a single model on the board. Or you can just use the strat after the game starts.

[MajorNese]

Well, why just midfield? They would be great to place in your own Deployment Zone. "Mistakenly" leave a gap or 2 in your deployment, your opponent will be salivating to drop Deep Strikers in there, and then, via Concealed Positions, you seal up those gaps. Now your opponent is disappointed, because you snatched that opportunity away, but now also has to rethink, on the fly, just what he will do with Deep Strikers, and the game is just about to start. For me, that beats having Intercessors in the backfield, and letting him plan, without any disruption/distraction, as I deploy.

With 40k being effectively not limited in decision time, I don't think it has much value beyond temporarily distracting the..."easily enthused" players. Anyone else will just shrug and think you made a mistake, effectively wasting Concealed Position, board control and midfield deep strike buffer for something the much cheaper and less flexible units could have done all the same. Deep strike usually happens on turn 2+, so that "surprise" would have been long gone before things would get relevant. Yes, we play mind games with deployment, but this just seems like wasting points and abilities.

[seriade]

I think you possibly take one squad to provide an aura of protection for stuff you really don't want your opponent messing with from deep strike beyond that I believe Incursors will be the troop of choice to build the list around.  You will most likely have a unit of intercessors with stalkers, scouts, and a possibility with the new pickup trucks for primaris go with 2 5 man teams of guys with auto bolt rifles.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

I don't like comparing Reivers to Intercessors because the Phobos keyword and deployment/movement options are relevant. They may not compare favorably to Infiltrators, but at least it's no longer simply ignoring the Reiver's actual relevant upsides just to treat them as overpriced yet inferior Intercessors.

[seriade]

I think the comparison needs to be infiltrator to Incursor to be honest.  We can say a list should always have x,y, and z but i think the core will be Incursors possibly 2-3 units with a mine.

[MajorNese]

Yeah, Incursors...let's say the mine is nice, but they suffer from the same issue as Infiltrators - they are more expensive than Intercessors, bring basic bolters (which are a lot worse than let's say autobolt rifles) and are made special by Concealed Positions (which is nice) and special wargear/abilities that entirely depend on what your opponent brings.

If you face any army without -1 to hit or deep strike, both units are just expensive primaris with basic bolters and some very situational buffs, which are limited by the fact that they only apply to basic bolters.

 

A single squad of Infiltrators seems useful to hard counter certain units (Mawloc anyone?) and create board control, but beyond that there is little incentive to use more. The sole exception that comes to mind would be an all out infiltrating approach to create maximum pressure. Except for that, we have rather unique deployment options to do something similar with more effective units, making Concealed Positions a bit less necessary than it is for other chapters.

[seriade]

Right but my argument is if your building a list it would probably be something like this 2 incursors, 1 infiltrator, 1 stalker intersessor,  2-3 scouts or 2 intersessors w auto boltrifles/transports, a Thunderfire cannon, and some eliminators.  This in some form will mostly the core for most ravenguard lists.  This takes the middle with a large core of the force secures that point from any form of counter deepstrike.