Thunderfire Cannon Overwatch

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Is it possible to charge the Techmarine such that he can’t shoot the TFC? Assume the enemy unit is visible.

[dode74]

 

Crewed Artillery: After this unit is set up on the

battlefield for the first time, it is divided into two units,

one containing the Thunderfire Cannon and the other

the Techmarine Gunner. If at any point there are no

friendly <CHAPTER> Techmarine Gunner units within

6" of a Thunderfire Cannon, that Thunderfire Cannon

is destroyed.

 

Operated Artillery: You can only shoot with a

Thunderfire Cannon if it is being operated. At the

start of any phase, each Techmarine Gunner model

from your army can operate one friendly <CHAPTER>

Thunderfire Cannon model within 3" of it. Until

the end of that phase, whilst it is within 3" of that

Thunderfire Cannon, that Techmarine Gunner is said

to be operating that Thunderfire Cannon.

I think so, yes.

 

If the techmarine is 3-6" away he cannot operate the TFC and the TFC is not destroyed.  If the TFC is not being operated then it cannot shoot.

 

The Crewed Artillery rule suggests that they are individual units, and if you charge the Techmarine unit you're not charging the TFC unit, so the TFC can't fire overwatch (barring the Defensive Focus Ultramarines stratagem).

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Techmarine was within 1" of the TFC.

[dode74]

It's still a separate unit as per Crewed Artillery, so the TFC cannot overwatch if the Techmarine alone is charged (unless it uses the aforementioned strat).

[BluejayJunior]

Nothing from the way the rules are worded would limit the techmarine from operating the TFC while it is in combat. If you only have the techmarine in combat and the TFC is out of combat, but still within 3" of the techmarine, the TFC can still be operated. 

[dode74]

Sure, it can be "operated".  But it is its own unit and you are not charging it.  Therefore the TFC cannot fire overwatch.

 

If the techmarine is within 3" the TFC is "being operated".  If the TFC is being operated then it may shoot.  In the charge phase a unit may shoot if it is being charged.  The TFC is not being charged, therefore it may not shoot.

[dode74]

You know what, I just realised I misread your question.  I thought you were talking about firing Overwatch rather than simply shooting in the shooting phase.  My bad.

 

I think you're right: I think if the Techmarine is in combat then he can still be said to be operating the TFC in the shooting phase if he is inside 3".

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Looking at the rules for firing the TFC I definitely think he can shoot it.

[Panzer]

First things first: The Techmarine only needs to be in range for the TFC to be able to shoot. He does not need to be able to shoot something himself. They are two different units with one requirering the other to be nearby.

 

Second thing: Since they are two different units and don't have any special rule saying otherwise, they can't overwatch when only the other is declared as target for a charge.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Doesn’t need special rule as it clearly states he can fire it during a phase if in range.

[BluejayJunior]

He can operate it during any phase, not fire it. They are not the same thing.

If only the techmarine is charged, he can't fire the TFC for overwatch. They are separate units for all rules purposes and a unit cannot fire overwatch unless it is charged (unless there is a specific exemption, like the UM stratagem or Tau). 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

How does it operate other than firing ?

[Dr_Ruminahui]

The thing is, the Thunderfire Cannon (TC) is not one of the techmarines weapons.  Rather, it is a unit of its own that can only fire if a techmarine is nearby.

 

So, in the shooting phase, it isn't the techmarine who is firing when you activate the TC.  Yes, it needs the techmarine nearby to fire, but its the TC shooting, not the techmarine.  This means, for instance, that you don't have to declare the techmarine's shooting and the TC's shooting at the same time (though, realistically most players will shoot one then the other, if only so they don't forget to shoot both).

 

Since its the TC shooting, not the techmarine, the techmarine does not get to use it to fire overwatch unless the TC is also a target of the charge (in which cases it can shoot on its own behalf provided techmarines are close enough to it).

 

Ruled your way, if there were multiple techmarines near a TC, the TC could shoot once for each techmarine, as its the tech marine's shooting, not the TC's.

[dode74]

How does it operate other than firing ?

Being operated allows it to fire.  It a comment on the state of the TFC: it either is or is not being operated regardless of how many techmarines there are nearby.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I am sticking with my interpretation . Thanks everyone.

[Tyriks]

Nothing allows the TFC to fire overwatch unless it is declared as a target of the charge, or a special rule (like the ultramarine strat) explicitly says it is able to.

[Panzer]

If you decide to stick with your own interpretation anyway, don't ask for clarification in the rules section in the first place.

[Dam13n]

The question has been answered clearly. Regardless of whether or not the OP is willing to accept that answer, there is little to be gained by allowing this to carry on, as it will only end up circling. So I'm ending it here.