Units that mesh the best with BT special rules?

[Link2edition]

Ironhands have their dreadnought lists, White scars have their biker lists, what units go best with black templar chapter tactics?

This is a rules crunch thread not a fluff thread

 

I recently went through the codex with a good friend of mine to answer this question. Our tactics seem to favor jack-of-all trades units that don't mind a little bit of close combat. The unit that seemed to fit this role best was Inceptors.

Hear me out on this. So what Templar are good at is resisting mortal wounds and making long charges. Inceptors are T5, 3 wounds. A good target for mortal wound spam. They can deepstrike, but they have enough attacks to finish off units in CC, and they can fly so they don't care too much about being in close combat.

BT tactics lets them last a little longer, while bouncing around the board, shooting, charging who they please pretty reliably, and then flying off to do it again.

I wanted to hear what other units the community has found to go with these tactics well.

[Medjugorje]

write already a big post... but was not able to post it. will write it again but close form:

 

must have:

- Captain

- Company Veterans

- Emperors Champion

 

good:

Intercessors with Impulsor 

[Link2edition]

I can't say I have tried using the impulsor yet. Do you get your intercessors into combat a lot?

[Medjugorje]

its not just to get them into combat (and yes they do very fast). Its about "screening" and input and mobility too.

[jeremy1391]

Invictor war suits seem like a great fit.

 

Pretty much will always get a turn one charge if deployed aggressively. And if used will often be up close to smite spam armies.

[Link2edition]

Invictor war suits seem like a great fit.

 

Pretty much will always get a turn one charge if deployed aggressively. And if used will often be up close to smite spam armies.

I hadn't considered that. This here is why I made this thread.

[Jacques Corbin]

Yes, between Invictor Warsuits, and Suppressors, it will be a wonder that anything will be able to fire overwatch, as they will be tied up in melee with the suits, or have a model killed by the Suppressors.

 

I would dare say Thunderfire Cannon as well. They have a range of table, and are AP-2 on turn 1 during Devastator Doctrine. They can remove or deplete screening/FTGG units. Also, their tremor shells will severely slow down horde units, and fast units that will try to go around your Crusaders. Won't work on the various Eldar Jetbikes, but it will still wound them on 3s, and they will have tshirt or tinfoil saves. Still, Tremor Shells on a charging enemy unit will be the difference between your Crusaders being on the giving or receiving end of a charge.

 

Ironclad Dreadnought. Great one-two punch with an Invictor Warsuit. The Invictor makes the first turn charge, and holds them down while the Ironclad runs up the board to join the fray.

[SydonianDragoon404]

Bring incursors to join the invictor, extra hits on roll of a six in close combat, very templary to me even if they are "knife fighters".

[Link2edition]

I have taken swordfighting classes, you need to know how to use knives too. Its all part of the templar skillset.

 

Have you found incursors to be worth the points?

[redmapa]

If our Doctrine bonus is autowounds on 6s to hit as the rumors say then the Incursors will be really good for Templars, extra hits AND wounds as well aggressive deployment for mass charges if neeeded makes them a very enticing troop choice in my opinion. As for current rules I have a soft spot for Inceptors, yes they are expensive but they are fast and offer a lot of firepower whicch makes them really good at supporting your choppy elements either by softening a target or eating overwatch since they have 3W each.

[Marshal van Trapp]

So my current plan for my "black tide (& friends)" list is either double batallion or brigade with 2 each of 10-man incursors, 5 man intercessors, and 20 man crusaders, back up by helbretch, sigislash (biker captain with SS, ToT, and ImpSword trait), and either a regular chaplain or Grimaldus

 

Literally all my other points are spent in as many Dev squads (triple las and HvyBolter) and Invictor suits as I can cram in. I'm still waiting on the supplement to nail down the list (and before I spend the money on 3 suits lol) but I'm hoping this will work, the idea is that the invictors and incursors deploy as close as possible to put on 1st turn pressure while helbretch and the crusaders move into position and the intercessors go to claim midfield objectives

[Medjugorje]

Didnt the FAQ change this rule so far? No more autowounds for the extra Hit.

with this new rules 3x Battallion is maybe playable

 

• Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [76 PL, 1,997pts]
  • No Force Org Slot
    • **Chapter Selection**

      Selections: Black Templars

  • HQ [34 PL, 644pts]
    • Captain [6 PL, 143pts]

      Selections: Jump Pack [1 PL, 19pts], Storm shield [10pts], Thunder hammer [40pts]

    • Captain [6 PL, 143pts]

      Selections: Jump Pack [1 PL, 19pts], Storm shield [10pts], Thunder hammer [40pts]

    • Chaplain [5 PL, 90pts]

      Selections: 1. Litany of Faith, 6. Canticle of Hate, Jump Pack [1 PL, 18pts], Litany of Hate

    • Chaplain [5 PL, 90pts]

      Selections: 1. Litany of Faith, 6. Canticle of Hate, Jump Pack [1 PL, 18pts], Litany of Hate

    • Lieutenants [6 PL, 89pts]
      • Lieutenant [6 PL, 89pts]

        Selections: Jump Pack [1 PL, 18pts], Power fist [9pts], Storm bolter [2pts]

    • Lieutenants [6 PL, 89pts]
      • Lieutenant [6 PL, 89pts]

        Selections: Jump Pack [1 PL, 18pts], Power fist [9pts], Storm bolter [2pts]

  • Troops [42 PL, 771pts]
    • Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 101pts]

      Selections: Bolt rifle

      • 4x Intercessor [68pts]
      • Intercessor Sergeant [33pts]

        Selections: Thunder hammer [16pts]

    • Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 101pts]

      Selections: Bolt rifle

      • 4x Intercessor [68pts]
      • Intercessor Sergeant [33pts]

        Selections: Thunder hammer [16pts]

    • Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 101pts]

      Selections: Bolt rifle

      • 4x Intercessor [68pts]
      • Intercessor Sergeant [33pts]

        Selections: Thunder hammer [16pts]

    • Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 101pts]

      Selections: Bolt rifle

      • 4x Intercessor [68pts]
      • Intercessor Sergeant [33pts]

        Selections: Thunder hammer [16pts]

    • Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 101pts]

      Selections: Bolt rifle

      • 4x Intercessor [68pts]
      • Intercessor Sergeant [33pts]

        Selections: Thunder hammer [16pts]

    • Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 101pts]

      Selections: Bolt rifle

      • 4x Intercessor [68pts]
      • Intercessor Sergeant [33pts]

        Selections: Thunder hammer [16pts]

    • Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
      • Scout Sergeant [11pts]

        Selections: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

      • 4x Scout w/Boltgun [44pts]
    • Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
      • Scout Sergeant [11pts]

        Selections: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

      • 4x Scout w/Boltgun [44pts]
    • Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
      • Scout Sergeant [11pts]

        Selections: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

      • 4x Scout w/Boltgun [44pts]
  • Dedicated Transport [582pts]
    • Impulsor [97pts]

      Selections: 2x Storm Bolters [4pts], Shield Dome [18pts]

    • Impulsor [97pts]

      Selections: 2x Storm Bolters [4pts], Shield Dome [18pts]

    • Impulsor [97pts]

      Selections: 2x Storm Bolters [4pts], Shield Dome [18pts]

    • Impulsor [97pts]

      Selections: 2x Storm Bolters [4pts], Shield Dome [18pts]

    • Impulsor [97pts]

      Selections: 2x Storm Bolters [4pts], Shield Dome [18pts]

    • Impulsor [97pts]

      Selections: 2x Storm Bolters [4pts], Shield Dome [18pts]

Edited October 2, 2019 by Medjugorje

[Link2edition]

I am going to throw thunderhammer/stormshield terminators into this discussion, as i think our chapter tactics run them better than anyone elses. Edited October 5, 2019 by Link2edition

[SydonianDragoon404]

I finally got to use my new Invictor warsuit tonight, little hidden gem here. When they explode, they explode d6 mortal wounds within six inches. My opponent surrounded it with Wraiths and Lichguard, it took so many of them out from the overwatch and the explosion. The explosion made my counter punch in the following turn into wiping out 2 units of lichguard and the remaining wraiths. It was great. 

[Medjugorje]

I am going to throw thunderhammer/stormshield terminators into this discussion, as i think our chapter tactics run them better than anyone elses.

had a few fungames with them. They are good but I dont know how competitive they are. I think they must be played with "canticle of hate" and the stratagem "Transhuman physiology"

 

 

but we are not the only ones who make them strong. Salamanders for example are strong with them too I think.

Edited October 5, 2019 by Medjugorje

[Medjugorje]

Invictors must be good so... any thoughts here?

[SydonianDragoon404]

Every tournament space marine list I've seen that is taking first place has been taking three of them with the ironhail autocannons. The flamer is obviously the more Templar choice but the autocannon seems to be the better choice per the tournament winners. 

 

I've used mine twice and every game it has died turn one because each of those games I got seized on and I deployed it extremely aggressively. 

Edited October 13, 2019 by SydonianDragoon404

[Medjugorje]

tournament players use Ultramarines - they have a stratagem to redeploy them (and then they must deploy them in their deploymentzone). Thats why they play them with Autocannons...

 

And its always the same... if you play only one - the whole army shoots at him in round one.

[Jacques Corbin]

The new Impulsor transport, anyone? You can disembark after it moves. Transports 6 Primaris marines, as long as they do not have Gravis or Jump Packs.

 

Ok, best case scenario. Primaris Emperors Champion, and Primaris Sword Brethren become reality on the tabletop. What is the best build to get them into combat? The shield dome seems pretty obvious.

 

Now, what about a non-Gravis Primaris Techmarine being released? Zoom it into place, have him and his screening unit disembark, and let loose with the Missile Launcher. But, who would ride with the Techmarine?

 

Finally, how I would use them. One or two, in reserve, with a unit of 5 troops in each. Turn 3, they zoom on, 14" at least, then the troops disembark on a midfield objective, that your opponent thought he had cleared with shooting.

 

Thoughts?

[redmapa]

The Impulsor wants to carry units that are good at shooting and charging or at least decent at both, if the unit just wants to shoot then it doesnt want to be close and if the unit just wants to charge then it gains nothing as you will still need to sit tight for a turn before charging, right now the only unit that will benefit from the Impulsor is the Intercessor and this hypothetical veteran unit will need to be able to do both things to  make the most of an Impulsor. Repuslors may be more expensive but are certainly better for an all assault unit in my opinion.

[SydonianDragoon404]

Chaplain with the nasty stick + auto bolter intercessors in the impulsor. Though a captain and hellblasters are the more obvious combo. I wish our chaplains could take more than one litany. Edited October 14, 2019 by SydonianDragoon404

[Jacques Corbin]

The Impulsor wants to carry units that are good at shooting and charging or at least decent at both, if the unit just wants to shoot then it doesnt want to be close and if the unit just wants to charge then it gains nothing as you will still need to sit tight for a turn before charging, right now the only unit that will benefit from the Impulsor is the Intercessor and this hypothetical veteran unit will need to be able to do both things to make the most of an Impulsor. Repuslors may be more expensive but are certainly better for an all assault unit in my opinion.

Yes, but...

 

While it is certainly no Landraider Crusader, it is cheap, and versatile, with a modest transport capacity. I could see a mix of Repulsors and Impulsors in a mechanized list. Which to shoot at, the big one with all the guys and lots of big guns, or the lighter one that is either shuttling a character and his retinue or is there for support as in the air defense or the Missile launcher?

[Medjugorje]

 

The Impulsor wants to carry units that are good at shooting and charging or at least decent at both, if the unit just wants to shoot then it doesnt want to be close and if the unit just wants to charge then it gains nothing as you will still need to sit tight for a turn before charging, right now the only unit that will benefit from the Impulsor is the Intercessor and this hypothetical veteran unit will need to be able to do both things to make the most of an Impulsor. Repuslors may be more expensive but are certainly better for an all assault unit in my opinion.

Yes, but...

 

While it is certainly no Landraider Crusader, it is cheap, and versatile, with a modest transport capacity. I could see a mix of Repulsors and Impulsors in a mechanized list. Which to shoot at, the big one with all the guys and lots of big guns, or the lighter one that is either shuttling a character and his retinue or is there for support as in the air defense or the Missile launcher?

 

especially a LRC normally have the problem to get tied in combat. With Impulsors and good Melee units a LRC can be close to them and give firesupport and its not easy for enemy units to come too close.

[kombatwombat]

I run 10 TH/SS Terminators with a Terminator Chapter Master and Jump Castellan, with a Jump Chaplain rocketing up the board to give them the +2 to charge the turn they arrive, and drop Fury of the First on them.

 

It’s a goddamn horror show when they arrive. 31 Str8 Ap-3 (-4 if Assault Doctrine) Dmg3 attacks hitting on 3s with full rerolls and reroll 1s to Wound will kill anything worthy of note. If you can deep strike or move them into cover and put Transhuman Physiology on them they’re borderline unshiftable. I love them.

[Ado]

I run a 6 man termie assault squad and terminator chaplain. If I get them into combat from deepstrike they can wreck. But fir full effectiveness I feel like I need to have 8+ TH/SS termies and like kombatwombat suggests, a JP Chaplain bouncing around to give them the +2" charge to help. I played in a tournament at the weekend and in 3 out of the 5 games they failed the charge even with the re-rolls and they all failed on 7s. It was soul detsroying!! When I did get them in, I destroyed a chaos knight that had had a couple fo wounds plucked off by shooting. That was very satisfying!