How are your Thousand Sons doing?

[Prot]

I had to post a general question to you guys.

 

I'd like to hear how your games are going. Light batreps, casual comments... anything that shows you are still experiencing some gaming with your Thousand Sons.

 

Personally I just had a game utilizing my Chaos Knights force allied with my Thousand Sons.

 

I've never been big on the daemon side, and probably don't know how to use it well. So in my case I've made a decent, but not overly competitive attempt at the whole Knight/TS thing.

 

The list I'm playing has some really fun units. Basically it's this:

 

Ahriman on Disk

DP w/wings

Sorc on Disk

 

20ish Tzaangors

10 Cultists

5-6 Rubrics. 

 

5 Scarab Occult terms with stuff that largely doesn't work.... .and missiles.

 

3-4 Failed Sorcs (Spawn!) (such a fun unit with our strats).

 

3 bow and arrow Enlightened

1 Shaman on a disk

 

Knights:

Inconoclast house Tyrant (this is to get the Iron Warrior relic which I think is mandatory for this dude).  I use the Valiant variant, which is a lot of fun but sometimes amazingly frustrating with that spear. 

 

2 x Wardogs. Sometimes both are the same, sometimes I switch it up.

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++

 

My last game is crazy. I play Maelstrom vs. a really strong Dark Eldar list. Lots of boats. Lots of bodies, tons of poison and melta on the Venoms as well as two of the heavy (predator style) gunships. 

 

He clearly out shoots me. I clearly out smite him. 

 

We end up with a fantastic game that goes the distance. I literally have nothing left. I have to pour an unbelievable amount of resources into his Talos' which are buffed. The Spawn hold their ground, just long enough for me to take a risky move with my Daemon Prince which fails utterly and completely. Finally the Tyrant swings in and stomps 2 Venoms and the remaning Talos to death. Just in time to even the game out.

 

We go right to turn 7 and I win by one point. All I have left is Ahriman, and about 14 wounds on the Tyrant, and otherwise I think I had 2 cultists hiding. He still had more, but it was mostly piece meal stuff however if he drew enough objectives that he could turbo to, I think he would have won.

 

Really good game. 

 

My heroes were: Ahriman, Tyrant (this game he was really good, but his spear missed 3 turns in a row, even re rolling 1's and then again for the to wound!)

 

The Tzaangors were horrid.... the Rubrics did very little but stalled the wyches assault. The Tzaangor on Disks really do nothing for me. They basically zip around every game, and plink away harmlessly at some mid level target. But they're just cheap enough to have them go leap off a cliff for an objective.

 

I'd like to give an honourable mention to the Spawn who once again held up against Talos for 3 turns (how?).

 

I'd like to give triple Vindicators a shot with the Terrain piece for a 5++ and re roll all Psychics. but so far I really like this list.

 

[byrd9999]

Thanks for the post, Prot. I eally enjoy reading about other Thousand Sons players. I'm still quite new to playing Warhammer, so my only experience is playing approx. 50 Power Level games in my FLGS.

 

I have been playing only Thousand Sons since I started (9 months ago), and I have been gradually refining my list. I have a list that does reasonably well against the competition, which ranges from mildy competitive players to casual narrative gamers.

 

My games really improved once I worked out how to take a Battalion detachment and gain 8 CP:

 

Ahriman, 7

Exalted Sorceror, 7

 

5x Rubrics, 7

5x Rubrics, 7

10x Tzaangors. 4

 

5x Scarab Occult Terminators, 11

1x Tzaangor Shaman, 5

3x Tzaangor Enlightened, 3

 

Spells: Weaver of Fates, Glamour, Prescience, Temporal Manipulation, Infernal Gaze, Warptime.

 

I generally run them as 3 groups: Ahriman and Terminators, Exalted Sorc and Rubrics, and Tzaangors. I buff the Tzaangors Turn 1 and the threat of the them charging and auto-wounding is enough to get my opponent to target them, meaning my space marines can take a turn or two to get into position (i.e. Deepstriking the terminators and Dark Matter Crystalling Ahriman to join them).

 

Apart from Smiting, the Terminators are usually my MVPs. If I can buff them with Glamour, Prescience and use a CP on Veterans of the Long War, then they punch well above their weight. Opponents also usually forget just how resilient Rubrics and SoT are with the All is Dust rule.

[Tyriks]

I have not run mine in awhile. I've been moving more and more into "standard" Chaos. I just felt like I was running the same basic list every game and wanted to have more variety. I'm probably going to dust them back off when the narrative campaign we started is over, so I'm interested to follow what will be happening for us over the next few months.

[Prot]

Byrd, that's a good starting point and a good base to work off of and eventually you may find specialties in the codex (or daemons, or CSM) that will be fun to try out in the future.

 

Tyriks, I think a lot of us are doing that, or have tried it. I consider my own Chaos Knights experiment to be like that as well.

 

Cherry picking CSM does have some merit. I just hate doing it, but the Disco lords are great distraction units, and units like Oblits, and Havocs can help fill some issues for TSons as well. I too hope Psychic Awakening brings some evolution to our playstyle.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Interesting. I played my first game of 8th with my TS this year a few weeks ago and it ended up being very close against a buddy's Tau.

I have no tzangoors but some blue horrors that I'm thinking of trading away to focus on more rubrics and maybe fill out my 2000 point list with a defiler.

[Prot]

Just a fair warning, and I know we've kind of talked about this before but I think a Defiler is 'good', but throw a Disco Lord in and they are 'better'. 

 

That +1 to a Defiler is a world of difference, not to mention the -1 to enemy vehicles in CC is also good.

 

I'm still contemplating my Vindicator/Predator idea. lol

[CrystalSeer]

I've played tsons and tzeentch daemons exclusively for the last 10 months. I prefer rubric heavy lists which maximize VotLW and webway/DMC. I have lost once out of about 30 games, it was against a custodes/assassins/knight list.

 

My MVPs are usually buffed up SOT and Pink horrors who can split. The points efficiency of daemons balances the cost of rubrics allowing for better table control.

[Skerr]

I was surprised by my groups reaction to my sons after playing against them all a few times over a long weekend.

 

The smite volume really caught them off guard, tzangoor herds were a big lethal nuisance, 5 man Rubrics were hard to shift, SOTs were used surgically to good effect, chaos spawn were fun to play, All is Dust and Bolter Discipline rocked.

 

Good use of strats like VotLW, Cycle of Slaughter, the one that lets you choose the chaos spawn mutations, some good luck with perils as well as effective spell use was on my side that weekend to the point where my friends started thinking my sons were OP! But it was really the smite volume that freaked them out.

 

I had to talk one of my friends out of rage quiting during the first turn after the psychic round and shooting phase. He was playing guard and I talked him into continuing saying he would likely blow me off the table by turn 4 or 5. I ended up conceding end of 5 after an failed game winning masterstroke on my part. Even so things like sorcerers and Ahriman zipping around the battlefield, warptimimg on discs and dishing out mortal wounds seemed to leave a bad taste with a couple people i played. Most of the guys were new to 8th and I do remember my apprehension with mortal wounds at first as well after my first couple games. No one really brought anything antipsycher. I had a blast though and won most games!

 

I played a lot of games between 1000 and 2000 points against Imp Guard, Dark Angels, Eldar and built lists from the units listed below.

 

Ahriman on disc

DP, wings, claws, DMC

Exhalt. Sorcerer on disc, helm

Termie Sorcerer

 

Two or more 5 man Rubric squads

 

30 tzangoors with blades

 

5-8 SOT

 

1-5 chaos spawn

 

Twin Las Predator

 

1-2 Helbrutes with Las/ Missiles

[Prot]

I've played tsons and tzeentch daemons exclusively for the last 10 months. I prefer rubric heavy lists which maximize VotLW and webway/DMC. I have lost once out of about 30 games, it was against a custodes/assassins/knight list.

My MVPs are usually buffed up SOT and Pink horrors who can split. The points efficiency of daemons balances the cost of rubrics allowing for better table control.

Interesting. What is the list like? I’m trying to expand my Thousand Sons to make them a bit more interesting and I’m a bit tired of massed Tzaangors ( and Cultists in general) to keep costs down. I’m particularly curious about the Rubric tactics.

 

Stinger I sold my last thousand sons army I’ve slowly been rebuying them but I find painting the army to be super slow and of course I’ve burned out on Tzaangor painting.

[Archaeinox]

Terrible, but it's my own fault. I do not use Tzaangors or Demon Princes. As such, the army is not suited to kill even the most average opponent in my area with new space marines (to say nothing of competitive lists). The worst thing about this is that I can see the results of each game (prescience, anyone?) very early thanks to my knowledge of the game, and nothing is more disheartening than just removing models all game after devoting a day to playing.

 

I attend tournaments to try for the Best-Painted gift card, which is higher than the entry.

 

I have turned my attention to doing character commission painting in hopes that soon we will get some adjustments from Psychic Awakening to rekindle my love of the Rubrics.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Terrible, but it's my own fault. I do not use Tzaangors or Demon Princes. As such, the army is not suited to kill even the most average opponent in my area with new space marines (to say nothing of competitive lists). The worst thing about this is that I can see the results of each game (prescience, anyone?) very early thanks to my knowledge of the game, and nothing is more disheartening than just removing models all game after devoting a day to playing.

 

I attend tournaments to try for the Best-Painted gift card, which is higher than the entry.

 

I have turned my attention to doing character commission painting in hopes that soon we will get some adjustments from Psychic Awakening to rekindle my love of the Rubrics.

I know that feeling.

I'm not using goors either but I've had to swallow the DP pill. Going to try and convert one in psychic chains to make it more palatable.

[CrystalSeer]

 

I've played tsons and tzeentch daemons exclusively for the last 10 months. I prefer rubric heavy lists which maximize VotLW and webway/DMC. I have lost once out of about 30 games, it was against a custodes/assassins/knight list.

My MVPs are usually buffed up SOT and Pink horrors who can split. The points efficiency of daemons balances the cost of rubrics allowing for better table control.

Interesting. What is the list like? I’m trying to expand my Thousand Sons to make them a bit more interesting and I’m a bit tired of massed Tzaangors ( and Cultists in general) to keep costs down. I’m particularly curious about the Rubric tactics.

I've run through several variations. I started by running 2 blocks of 20 rubrics and 1 10 man SoT with Ahriman and an exalted, using cultists and a daemon battery to fill up cp. I switched to smaller rubric squads (3x10) so I could run double daemon princes, and I play this in two ways: one is daemon battalion with TSons supreme command.

 

Ahriman, 2 princes, 10 SoT

Lord of Change, Changeling, 30 pink horrors, 2x10 brimstone horrors

 

This one gives me a ton of reinforcement points that I can use to summon screamers or flamers depending on opponent. Also let's me split the pink horrors which makes them ridiculously resilient. This one is good at counter-offensive strategies.

 

Ahriman, 2 princes, 10 SOT, 3x10 rubrics, Las-pred, 2x las-hellbrutes

 

this one is far more situational but has done well for me.

 

I'm considering dropping the hellbrutes to get my rubrics rhinos due to the increasing volume of small arms from the new marines.

[CrystalSeer]

tactics for rubrics is kind of simple, you use webway, teleportation, or dmc to drop large numbers of them in effective range and pump them up using prescience, votlw, and sorceror re-rolls. These bricks do massive damage and are then hard to shift. Once in a good position, you should be able to get table control in their 24" bubble.

 

Think of it like a drop pod with a transport capacity of 20 but no points cost.

[Archaeinox]

 

Also let's me split the pink horrors which makes them ridiculously resilient.

 

 

 

Can you explain this to me a little bit? I have never been able to grasp any benefit of splitting, so I haven't used pinks at all. I'm a little worried about morale tests and of lately I've just been doing the brimstone battalion or whatever (3x10)

[CrystalSeer]

 

 

 

Also let's me split the pink horrors which makes them ridiculously resilient.

 

 

 

Can you explain this to me a little bit? I have never been able to grasp any benefit of splitting, so I haven't used pinks at all. I'm a little worried about morale tests and of lately I've just been doing the brimstone battalion or whatever (3x10)

So this is a weird one with pinks. Because 8th assigns wounds and saves in succession, the splitting acts as redundant saves for pink horrors. Essentially, when a horror is removed, it splits, allowing you to put wounds on the horrors replacing it. There is no requirement to "fast dice" as it functions individually per wound.

 

You pair this with the changeling for a 6+ fnp, and you create the following sequence:

 

4++, 6+, 5++, 6+, 5++, 6+, 6++, 6+, 6++, 6+

 

this scenario effectively creates 10 saves before you move to the next pink horror. I've run some math, and if you just count it by the pinks, it comes out to a better than 90% save rate.

 

The down side to this, is every pink you lose counts as 5 models for morale purposes, but this can be countered by using 2cp to auto-pass.

 

Because of this, I've just started thinking of horrors as 23 point models with incredible resiliency. I put them out to screen my characters and enemies will spend inordinate amounts of fire to try and counter them.

 

also, discussed in more detail here:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356593-splitting-horrors/?do=findComment&comment=5336437

[Prot]

 

 

I've played tsons and tzeentch daemons exclusively for the last 10 months. I prefer rubric heavy lists which maximize VotLW and webway/DMC. I have lost once out of about 30 games, it was against a custodes/assassins/knight list.

My MVPs are usually buffed up SOT and Pink horrors who can split. The points efficiency of daemons balances the cost of rubrics allowing for better table control.

Interesting. What is the list like? I’m trying to expand my Thousand Sons to make them a bit more interesting and I’m a bit tired of massed Tzaangors ( and Cultists in general) to keep costs down. I’m particularly curious about the Rubric tactics.

I've run through several variations. I started by running 2 blocks of 20 rubrics and 1 10 man SoT with Ahriman and an exalted, using cultists and a daemon battery to fill up cp. I switched to smaller rubric squads (3x10) so I could run double daemon princes, and I play this in two ways: one is daemon battalion with TSons supreme command.

 

Ahriman, 2 princes, 10 SoT

Lord of Change, Changeling, 30 pink horrors, 2x10 brimstone horrors

 

This one gives me a ton of reinforcement points that I can use to summon screamers or flamers depending on opponent. Also let's me split the pink horrors which makes them ridiculously resilient. This one is good at counter-offensive strategies.

 

Ahriman, 2 princes, 10 SOT, 3x10 rubrics, Las-pred, 2x las-hellbrutes

 

this one is far more situational but has done well for me.

 

I'm considering dropping the hellbrutes to get my rubrics rhinos due to the increasing volume of small arms from the new marines.

 

 

With NuMarines I've been seriously considering using the Noctlith with rerolls on psychics and long range tanks (preds x 3?). They'll have a 5++ and almost a guarantee to have buffs from re rolled psychic tests.

 

But Helbrutes with Invulns might be a great cheap alternative. 

 

Splitting Pinks is something I never thought I'd visit again, but it's somewhat tempting. I also like the idea of splitting the new models -outwards-... so therefore expanding the footprint, and setting up charges, or increasing charge success with deaths in overwatch.

 

I just sold every Tzeentch Daemon I owned in 7th ed. (I knew the split goofiness would end and I couldn't participate in it anymore. lol )

 

I usually really enjoy SOT, so I'm glad yours seem to work. Using 10 man Rubrics is something I want to get back to as well. 

 

I suppose Tzaangors still do the job though.

[Tyriks]

Splitting doesn't seem worth it to me. You make yourself dependant on the stratagem to pass morale and you could have just started with more models on the board, which could be doing stuff all game. I've never been in a situation where splitting is better than just having more models to start with.

[Prot]

I’ve never really used it to be honest in 8tn. But I tried making some lists where perhaps I would proxy them for a test game and the list just consists of too many grubs that don’t do real damage. I think NuMarines will really have a heyday with that much chaff.

 

I don’t know but my list of Tsons dual battalion at least can do real damage with the Tzaangors in numbers. It feels like the Horrors are just there to absorb. I don’t ‘now though. But I don’t know if I would repurchase all those Horrors based on this strategy at this time.

[Are Verlo]

I had a game with the 1KS yesterday vs Salamanders. We played the 4 pillars from CA2019.

My opponent tried out a "green wing": lots and lots of bodies. The only vehicles in a 2K army was 2 rhinoes and a contemptor. The rest was boots on the ground.

 

My army was

Battalion

Ahriman on disc

DP with wings and dual talons---> DMC

3x5 rubrics

30 Tzaangors with blades, brayhorn

10 SoT with 2x missiles and soulfire

5 Chaos spawn (my VPS that game)

10 cultists

 

Spearhead

Exalted on disc with dual power swords--> Seer´s bane

Defiler with scourge and reaper (cheap and cheerful)

Maulerfiend with tendrils

Vortex Beast

 

My opponent played the mission well and won the game. He really did not make any significant mistakes and had a build well suited to the mission (4 pillars)

On the other hand I made plenty of rookie mistakes starting with bad deplyment and catastrophic decisions during reserves turn 2.

 

Our tables see plenty of terrain and this game was no exception.

 

During deployment I put the SoTs in reserve. In hindsight I should have placed them on the board during turn 1. I misplaced the defiler and it had so slog/crawl/stomp for 3 turns before it reached CC, while suffering -1 to hit for moving each turn :-/. The maulerfiend was placed near a gap in two walls, but as I found out, the fiend´s base was too wide to pass through the gap.... So it had to spend one more turn soaking fire before being able to charge. My cultist were carelessly placed near said gap and was gunned down turn 1 by sternguard.

 

Turn 2 I placed the SoTs first and they blocked the Tzaangors from getting a good place to webway infiltrate-facepalm. Termies get the doubble tap at 24", so I should have just placed them at 18" - 24" and blazed away. This kept the tzaangors from declaring a charge before turn 3.. and I deep struck out of range from all characters auras and buffs from the vortex beast. The SoTs should have been on the table from turn 1 and inflicted damage on his troops (in 4 pillars only troops can score the objectives).

 

Even if i had corrected all my mistakes, I think the Salamanders would have won the day. That many bodies gave him superb control of the battlefield and kept "his" two objectives while we fought over mine. My lack of turn 1 firepower and battlefield presence (had 40 bodies on reserves, 30-ish on the table turn 1) gave him the room he needed to operate. Scouts played a vital role too and put early pressure on my objectives and he selectively targeted by troops turn 1 while the SoTs were in reserve.

 

The only unit that preformed above and beyond their masters´ expectations was the spawn. They killed 15 marines and inflicted plenty on damage to his characters before he put the spawn out of their misery with bolters and chainswords.

 

I guess I should give my list a second chance and deploy better. It´s been a while since I messed up this bad (I´ve been in the game since rouge trader)

Edit: And take som pics next time. "Battreps" are better with pictures of the table and terrain.

[CrystalSeer]

Splitting doesn't seem worth it to me. You make yourself dependant on the stratagem to pass morale and you could have just started with more models on the board, which could be doing stuff all game. I've never been in a situation where splitting is better than just having more models to start with.

you get 2 things over having more models. First, you can guarantee survival in a critical location. This can either be an objective or a screening position. Second, you don't spend the points unless the enemy targets them.

[Hagl87]

So Thousand Sons are my new army this year after having played admech for the previous 2. I've only managed 3 friendly games with them but my initial view (probably not a revelation to anyone) is that Ahriman is a total boss.

In my last 2 games I loaded him up with all the mortal wound spells and he just flew around killing what needed to be killed, including contemptor dreadnoughts, a chimera, a taurox (finishing it with his pistol no less) and a salamander captain and lieutenant. Some scout bikers tried to charge him, he swiftly bashed em with his staff.

 

Fear he is probably a bit too awesome for my friendly group so am going to try out a terminator sorceror in the same role and see how it goes.

[strawberry fist]

Just getting into Thousand Sons, what would you advise I get to build a 1000p army?

[Ahzek451]

Just getting into Thousand Sons, what would you advise I get to build a 1000p army?

 

Ahriman/D.Prince.

Box of exalted

1-2 rubric squads

1 scarab

1-2 boxes of Tzaangor

 

The rest is up to you. Throw in an easy predator, maulerfiends, etc. 

[Ahzek451]

I am a little bored of my beloved sons, unfortunately. I'm really hoping psychic awaking will spice things up. Realistically hoping for a new model and a few small rule additions like what eldar got.

 

Big dreamer: would like to see a new codex that would fix a few issues, and give the same treatment that the new marines got I.E. bonuses for remaining pure sons. And not just one model but a couple new units to play with.

 

Also a change to magnus would be nice(daemon primarchs in general) bored of seeing him hog the same powers just to stay alive. Bored of a daemon primarch that either gets first turn, psychs himself up and wrecks shop vs. going second and getting shot off the board. GW needs to find some middle ground. Sounds like an oxymoron, but if they could find a way to make them seem like the badasses they are....but also doesn't make your opponent sad. 

 

CHANGE! WE MUST HAVE CHANGE! 

[strawberry fist]

 

 

Just getting into Thousand Sons, what would you advise I get to build a 1000p army?

Ahriman/D.Prince.

Box of exalted

1-2 rubric squads

1 scarab

1-2 boxes of Tzaangor

 

The rest is up to you. Throw in an easy predator, maulerfiends, etc.

I was thinking of running

Daemon prince with dual talons

Exhalted Sorceror

Exhalted Sorceror

 

Rubric marines x5

Rubric marines x5

Rubric marines x5

Tzangors x10 Chainsword and pistols

 

SpawnX1

Spawn x1

Tzangor enlightened with bows

 

Hellbrute with twin las and missile launcher

 

Thus getting me 9cp at 1000p

What do you think?