How are your Thousand Sons doing?

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

It was always "they are not rubrics" for me.

[Heliomanes]

I know they went up a point though did something else happen to make Tzangors less viable? Their equivalents, like cultists, guard or other cannon fodder going down? Seems like I noticed people down on their functionality before the point increase.

The new space marines absolutely wipe the floor with them, and since SM are so abundant on tourneys these days, people have been quite down on tzaangors lately.

[Zodd1888]

The hurt was three stages: Deepstike nerf, Shock/Hateful assault, and the points increase.

 

All three of those things reduced the effectiveness of Tzaangors. They're still a good unit, but in an army that is tight to fit efficiency into it's dulling the edges we have.

 

They're still good, but not as high on the pole as they once sat.

[Guzzlrr]

Yeah I used my Magnus in that big game recently and now I'm selling him. Intercessors made him a chump.

Primartchs suffer in bigger games don't sell him that would be a crime. Last massive game I played both Morty & Magnus died First turn before I could even move them lol

[Prot]

I know they went up a point though did something else happen to make Tzangors less viable? Their equivalents, like cultists, guard or other cannon fodder going down? Seems like I noticed people down on their functionality before the point increase.

  

 

I know they went up a point though did something else happen to make Tzangors less viable? Their equivalents, like cultists, guard or other cannon fodder going down? Seems like I noticed people down on their functionality before the point increase.

 

The new space marines absolutely wipe the floor with them, and since SM are so abundant on tourneys these days, people have been quite down on tzaangors lately.

Exactly. If you don’t live in a heavy Marine meta then quite frankly you won’t understand. If you live in a (competitive) marine meta quite frankly you won’t need to ask.

 

In my area the local groups and even the GW store has transformed into Iron Hands, then Raven Guard and finally some IFs.

 

Like I’ve said locally if I’m seeing blobs of -1 to hit Plaguebearers at T5 and FnP disappearing, I’m not going to over commit to Goats anymore.

[Archaeinox]

Yeah I encountered that plaguebearer filth for the first time the other day. I post in my local shop's FB group that I had free time and was looking to meet someone for a fluffy narrative game. I brought the typical rubrics, scarabs, predators, some sorcerers. Some dude I never saw replied and at the store he busts this "thing" out and Im like, ok, TS supreme command, I've heard of that. Oh look, only 1 unit plaguebearers. Also, some Red Corsairs detachment or something with marines.

 

Dude. Never again. That is neither fluffy nor friendly, but I didnt know about what it could do at first. What's worse, I can tell he knows tons about the game and knew exactly what the outcome would be against this fluff list of mine. This individual isn't the only player with this type of list around here, but its the first time I've seen it firsthand! Crazy.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Archaeinox

[BoomWolf]

Cultists went back down to 4, csm are down to mere 11 in comparison (and thus RC csm generate CP like candy), even the rubric discount makes a goat less desirable by comparison.

 

Goats are going to have a hard time to compete unless PA gives them something big, like actual relevant legion tactics.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Cultists went back down to 4, csm are down to mere 11 in comparison (and thus RC csm generate CP like candy), even the rubric discount makes a goat less desirable by comparison.

 

Goats are going to have a hard time to compete unless PA gives them something big, like actual relevant legion tactics.

I hope it gives them nothing!

More rubric love! Moar!

[Prot]

Yeah I encountered that plaguebearer filth for the first time the other day. I post in my local shop's FB group that I had free time and was looking to meet someone for a fluffy narrative game. I brought the typical rubrics, scarabs, predators, some sorcerers. Some dude I never saw replied and at the store he busts this "thing" out and Im like, ok, TS supreme command, I've heard of that. Oh look, only 1 unit plaguebearers. Also, some Red Corsairs detachment or something with marines.

 

Dude. Never again. That is neither fluffy nor friendly, but I didnt know about what it could do at first. What's worse, I can tell he knows tons about the game and knew exactly what the outcome would be against this fluff list of mine. This individual isn't the only player with this type of list around here, but its the first time I've seen it firsthand! Crazy.

 

 

I'm sorry that's your first experience with it. Definitely  not a friendly list. It is very common in tournaments. There's a fellow Canadian out here that has made it extremely popular, but the funny thing is... it really is too risky to take to a tournament now with NuMarines. You just got sacked by a dude who knows his run is done.  

 

But I know where you're coming from. A lot of people play in different meta's, and levels of compete. So if I say unit "X" isn't working for me, I know full well it may work for someone else. But my meta is full of tourney players. I don't mind it, but it does wear on you sometimes especially if you're like me and try to compete with mono codex, mono build ideas that stay true to background.

 

Last time I took Magnus I actually got first turn, buffed him like crazy, but one round of More Dakka / Showin' Off from lootas and it basically undoes any -1 to hit buffs you have going. It's really hard for Thousand Sons to reach out and start knocking down those really brutal ranged units that are protected by body guard type units (Tau drones are revolting or Grot Shields). 

 

I started proxying the Scorpius whirlwind. It's expensive but if you have to tag some Primaris, or TFC's or whatever, it's kind of all we've got. 

 

This is why I was thinking of the 3 x Vindicator with the new rules, plus Psykers around the Noctlith for the 5++. I think maybe my Black Legion might actually do it better (Abe has full rerolls). 

Edited December 17, 2019 by Prot

[CrystalSeer]

 

Last time I took Magnus I actually got first turn, buffed him like crazy, but one round of More Dakka / Showin' Off from lootas and it basically undoes any -1 to hit buffs you have going. It's really hard for Thousand Sons to reach out and start knocking down those really brutal ranged units that are protected by body guard type units (Tau drones are revolting or Grot Shields). 

 

I started proxying the Scorpius whirlwind. It's expensive but if you have to tag some Primaris, or TFC's or whatever, it's kind of all we've got. 

 

-1 to hit has little to no effect against most forces at this point. The prevalence of re-rolls and buffs just overwhelms the 15% reduction. In theory, it should work against GEQ and Orks, where the modifier is 33% or 50% respectively, but no one really uses those units without something that buffs their shots/BS.

 

The Scorpius looks amazing, my only down side is its hard to make a good conversion and I hate forgeworld prices / resin. However, if the next PA doesn't present some ranged options, I see 3 in my future.

 

 

And in fairness, isn't it difficult for anyone to knock down things behind body guard units? I was under the impression that the shield drone mechanic had everyone on the ropes for the moment.

Edited December 17, 2019 by CrystalSeer

[Archaeinox]

Yes I am finding that -1 to hit provides no mitigation whatsoever and I am giving it to Ahriman less and less. Originally, I had been giving him Prescience, Glamour and Infernal Gaze when he arrives with Terminators. Anything which can harm terminators will not only have ways to not care about the -1 to hit them, but for each failed save it's damage 2 or more anyways so it still hurts even if Glamour *does* block a couple shots. It's a waste of a cast. If anything, I should start giving it to the Predator babysitter so at least 1 of them can get some -1 to hit action for long range mitigation of the stray shots like lone lascannons or lone missile launchers. This value would be seen throughout the course of the game, but never against double units of lascannon Long Fangs or anything like that.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Archaeinox

[Prot]

 

 

Last time I took Magnus I actually got first turn, buffed him like crazy, but one round of More Dakka / Showin' Off from lootas and it basically undoes any -1 to hit buffs you have going. It's really hard for Thousand Sons to reach out and start knocking down those really brutal ranged units that are protected by body guard type units (Tau drones are revolting or Grot Shields). 

 

I started proxying the Scorpius whirlwind. It's expensive but if you have to tag some Primaris, or TFC's or whatever, it's kind of all we've got. 

 

-1 to hit has little to no effect against most forces at this point. The prevalence of re-rolls and buffs just overwhelms the 15% reduction. In theory, it should work against GEQ and Orks, where the modifier is 33% or 50% respectively, but no one really uses those units without something that buffs their shots/BS.

 

 

 

 

Yes, that's what I'm saying. "Cawl's" buff is everywhere now. But don't underestimate it against Tau. Tau still hate -1's and so do Eldar.

 

 

The Scorpius looks amazing, my only down side is its hard to make a good conversion and I hate forgeworld prices / resin. However, if the next PA doesn't present some ranged options, I see 3 in my future.

 

 

And in fairness, isn't it difficult for anyone to knock down things behind body guard units? I was under the impression that the shield drone mechanic had everyone on the ropes for the moment.

 

Drones are drones. For sure there's a level of difficulty in damaging them considerably.

 

The problem for TS is we need to hit the chaff to get the Psychic powers in range, or closest to our intended targets.

 

I believe the time for the Scorpius Whirwind is right now for multiple reasons:

- All armies may have trouble with drones, but we have almost nothing for them. You MUST knock a few down. I am playing against people with tons of them. Killing a few is useless and won't get you anywhere.

 

- Scorpius is exactly what you need against Primaris. Primaris in cover can hold an objective forever. This is one way of at least making them deploy differently.

 

- Thunderfire Cannons are just too good... and too cheap! One TFC is going to fire at you twice, every turn. It's also going to halve your movement on those two units every turn. The Scorpius is at least capable of reaching out to them.

 

I'm not saying it's the cure for everything that ails us, but if I am buying one Forgeworld piece, this would probably be it. 

[Heliomanes]

That's a good perspective, Prot. I really hope PA will give us a reason to bring scorpiuses and tanks, contemptors and other units as Thousand Sons rather than just soup them in as something more effective. I'd like to be as mono faction as possible, but I live in a competitive/semi-competitive environment where that becomes tricky to do.

[Raven1]

Arent Whirlwind scorpius expensive points wise and money wise. I'm sure it's too easy to hide a couple most of the game.

 

I suppose you could just go with the current whirlwind and call it even.

[Ahzek451]

It's just a little over 200 pts. I really love the rules...but I dunno. Hard to think about at that price point. Marines can afford 2 thunderfire per scorpius.

[Zodd1888]

They are expensive (Scorpius) but they're one of the best options for what's available right now. Unfortunately, they're primarily a right fit because of the gaps in the army, not so much their effectiveness in the overall game.

[BoomWolf]

Don't the heldrake solve the hidden TFC/small Primaris unit on objective rather well though?

I find it usually does, and it's pretty cheap these days.

 

 

As for -1 to hit, yes it's a total waste to put on ahriman, but why in earth is he your target and not a big block of dudes? The bigger the unit, the greater the effect, and a block of 20 dust bunnies with glamor and weaver piled on can tank a disgusting level of firepower.

[MegaVolt87]

Scorpius is still better than he'll drake for that though.

[Archaeinox]

I mean I gave it to him because he has the greatest chance to buff a big unit of terminators. even then its not very good.

[Raven1]

I think the biggest difference between the heldrake and the scorpius is the scorpius can fire out of LOS, a can be hidden and is D2. The heldrake maybe the most efficient right now than it's been all of 8th edition but still not good for what you want. It maybe a flyer but it still has all the downsides it had before but it's just cheaper.