Iron Hands Batrep - 2k, ITC

[Morticon]

So, I played an ITC mission vs a new Iron Hands list.  

It was every bit as terrifying and troubling as I had expected.  A lot of people have been focusing on the immortal Leviathan, but I think this isn't a particularly inspiring or even overly strong build.  The IH are exceptionally easy to play, and bring a degree of mobile marine firepower Ive not seen ..maybe ever. 

 

Forgefather

Captain

Libby

Chaplain

Lieutenant

 

2*5 scouts- 4snipers,1ml

2*5 snipers

1*5 bolter scouts

1*5 stalker intercessors

 

2* vendreads- fist,auto

1* Mortis dread- quadlas

2* Eliminators

 

2*2 attack bike- mm/hb

3* speeders- mm/hb

2* storms - hb

 

************

 

So, the speeders are super fast and hit like a ton of bricks.  The storms carry the sniper/missile scouts and zoom around taking out key targets.  The Speeders drill big targets and lock smaller ones, while the bikes play harrassment and punch.  All the while, the dreads march up - untargetable to anyone without character sniping -and Emperor forbid you get into combat, because with 6 attacks first round with a fist hitting on 2s, they're no slouches.  

 

I deployed heavily into cover with the help of two big magic boxes, but most of his stuff was behind one too, I did however manage to seize the initiative.  
My DC rushed forward to engage his main line, while my captain WoF on to the left flank to engage a storm and 2 bikers.  

I used the dreads to take out a squad of Eliminators on the left flank, my wings libby dread to take out the primaris, and 4 bikers to hit the right flanking scouts of his, while my VanVets cleared the center of scouts. 

He lost 6 units that turn, but I think the DC (although they killed the Forgefather) really targetted the wrong unit.  I engaged with 2 speeders, but really put all my attacks into other units -i should have put EVERYTHING into the speeders.  

Thankfully, the DC charged from the other side of a ruin wall, so i avoided the deadly 5+ overwatch.  (I lost a lot of wounds throughout the game from this). 

 

My opponent was on the back foot, but, his ability to just fly off and then lay down some serious firepower was amazing.  

He fought back heavily and our primary mission points were 3-3 a piece for 4 rounds, and when I did go ahead in one, he went ahead in the other. 

The student of history trait is possibly the strongest WL trait I've seen for a fighty character.  I would even go as far as saying its "too good".  

 

In the end, I won 21-25, thanks to my opponent forgetting his recon secondary, and being unable to kill 2 of my dreads that were marked.  

 

HOWEVER, as a brand new player to IH (and marines) he forgot about the half damage strat for dreads AND transhuman physiology - both of which could have changed the game, I feel.  (That being said, the half damage thing would have only come into play much much later, thanks to the dreads not going down until turn 5 and 6. 


All in all, we're in for a very tough time, lads.  With Ap2 HBs that move and fire and reroll 1s, we're going to be needing shields.  

Good luck!! 

[Jønke]

I assume marine dexes will be beefier and beefier... And ours are last to come

[Jolemai]

Fortunately I "only" have to face White Scars Imperial Fists and Ultramarines from the new Codex so far and they are all hung up on the triple Whirlwind idea...

 

It's always going to be meta dependant but if we evolve our lists we can still make a good fist of things.

[Prot]

So he didn't use the relic that reduces damage by 1 in a 6" aura? (Sorry can't remember the name.)

 

Sounds scary enough Mort. Thanks for the batrep. I still 100% believe that the IH list you played against is far from optimized for IH tactics.

[Morticon]

So he didn't use the relic that reduces damage by 1 in a 6" aura? (Sorry can't remember the name.)

 

Sounds scary enough Mort. Thanks for the batrep. I still 100% believe that the IH list you played against is far from optimized for IH tactics.

 

He did!  (it's a 3" aura, though) 

 

But, he made use of other things which I think are really really solid.  

[Morticon]

i think people have overlooked the humble land speeder!! I think them and sniper scouts are big big winners. 

[Jolemai]

Sniper Scouts on a Storm. Why do they do that better than us? (Haven't read the Codex)

[Emissary]

A big thing is that they can move and fire heavy weapons without the hit modifier. Means if your character is out of site they can move quickly to another position where they can see him.

[Morticon]

Sniper Scouts on a Storm. Why do they do that better than us? (Haven't read the Codex)

1: Move and fire heavy weapons.

2: AP+1 for heavy. 

3: Reroll 1's to hit. 

 

><; The missile launcher+4snipers make it great.

 

(Means you can move 16" with your speeder and take shots with the guys inside)

 

Even Eliminators become VERY scary. 

[Jolemai]

Is point 1 not something we can do?

 

In this combo I mean. Only I have the models...

[Morticon]

Is point 1 not something we can do?

 

In this combo I mean. Only I have the models...

Aah! No, i mean, without penalty ! ><; 

[Charlo]

Is point 1 not something we can do?

 

In this combo I mean. Only I have the models...

 

Not without suffering the -1 to hit for moving and firing Heavy Weapons. Iron Hands ignore this and ALSO get natural re-roll 1s when using heavy weapons in Dev Doctrine (which is where the extra AP comes from too).

 

i think people have overlooked the humble land speeder!! I think them and sniper scouts are big big winners. 

 

Been saying since day one of the IH book. They're a bit like beefy Tau Battlesuits now...!

 

With index options (dual HB/ MM) they become insane dakka boats that in squads of 3 could move up to 20" ?!

[Xerxus]

Land Speeders and Attack Bikes are significantly better with Iron Hands, and another terrifying prospect comes with having to deal with Stormtalons that hit ground targets on 2s and Stormhawks that hit fly targets on 2s, both rerolling 1s. If they start in the Ironstone bubble it won't even matter if you get turn 1 against them.

[Vermintide]

Sounds nasty.

 

I'm beginning to think there was some kind of misprint in the IH 'dex. They meant to put the word OR between those three special rules in the devastator doctrine, I'm sure...

[Morticon]

Land Speeders and Attack Bikes are significantly better with Iron Hands, and another terrifying prospect comes with having to deal with Stormtalons that hit ground targets on 2s and Stormhawks that hit fly targets on 2s, both rerolling 1s. If they start in the Ironstone bubble it won't even matter if you get turn 1 against them.

yup. Lot of chatter about Iron Hands flyers in my group at the moment.  Very interesting days! 

[Remtek]

I played the 3x repulsor list on vassal mostly to try and find out what they will struggle with. It was extremly awkard to move around the board and staying within 3" of the iron stone. The thunderfires, speeders and stormtalons ended up being the MVPs.  It's much more difficult to move to a different firelane compared to custode and dark eldar tanks. My guess is people will gravitate toward alot of things with fly keyword to avoid tri points. It's gonna be tough for combat armies. Perhaps 15 death company with poweraxes, if they can avoid the overwatch.

 

 

Feel like they overdid it with iron hands, they might need an 'adjustment'

[Majkhel]

I definitely feel the nerf-bat taking a solid swing somewhere.

However, the move-and-shoot-without-penalties, is what the speeders and bikes needed desperately across all codexes. Suddenly they become viable.

The idea with scouts inside Storms taking sniper rifles is fantastic, even if hilarious to imagine.

[Gingerninja]

Without having played the new SM codex and supp. I feel we have an edge. We don't have to care about the shooting phase since we should go all melee . I know it sounds a little crazy but my last 3 games (first 3 I've played all melee) I won all and pretty convincingly. I do think such a list need 1 unit with suppressors. Otherwise just bring your SG, VV and DC with alot of HQ support and it's an easy win .

 

Have a nice weekend you all

[Spagunk]

Without having played the new SM codex and supp. I feel we have an edge. We don't have to care about the shooting phase since we should go all melee . I know it sounds a little crazy but my last 3 games (first 3 I've played all melee) I won all and pretty convincingly. I do think such a list need 1 unit with suppressors. Otherwise just bring your SG, VV and DC with alot of HQ support and it's an easy win .

 

Have a nice weekend you all

I disagree. Though our melee is a cut above a lot of other armies, neglecting shooting is a bad idea in this edition. In fact, I would say melee should not be a primary focus unless you're certain the other army can't deal with it: hard to do with pickup and tournament venues.

 

It's just a general weakness of melee itself, not a dig at our abilities (which is actually really good).

[Panzer]

Without having played the new SM codex and supp. I feel we have an edge. We don't have to care about the shooting phase since we should go all melee . I know it sounds a little crazy but my last 3 games (first 3 I've played all melee) I won all and pretty convincingly. I do think such a list need 1 unit with suppressors. Otherwise just bring your SG, VV and DC with alot of HQ support and it's an easy win .

 

Have a nice weekend you all

 

We definitely should NOT go all melee. That has always been a terrible advice not to mention not true to the fluff either.

[Morticon]

 

Without having played the new SM codex and supp. I feel we have an edge. We don't have to care about the shooting phase since we should go all melee . I know it sounds a little crazy but my last 3 games (first 3 I've played all melee) I won all and pretty convincingly. I do think such a list need 1 unit with suppressors. Otherwise just bring your SG, VV and DC with alot of HQ support and it's an easy win .

 

Have a nice weekend you all

 

We definitely should NOT go all melee. That has always been a terrible advice not to mention not true to the fluff either.

 

I wouldn't be quick to dismiss what works in his particular gaming environment if it works in his particular gaming environment.  It may not work in everyone's, but likewise, it may be what BA players in mini-groups are looking for. 

 

The slavish adherence to "a correct way" (or even "an optimised way") of play  is unhelpful because it doesn't factor in micro-meta.  

 

Rather lets find out what he's been using, what he's been up against and see where it will help us or others. 

[Panzer]

 

 

Without having played the new SM codex and supp. I feel we have an edge. We don't have to care about the shooting phase since we should go all melee . I know it sounds a little crazy but my last 3 games (first 3 I've played all melee) I won all and pretty convincingly. I do think such a list need 1 unit with suppressors. Otherwise just bring your SG, VV and DC with alot of HQ support and it's an easy win .

 

Have a nice weekend you all

 

We definitely should NOT go all melee. That has always been a terrible advice not to mention not true to the fluff either.

 

I wouldn't be quick to dismiss what works in his particular gaming environment if it works in his particular gaming environment.  It may not work in everyone's, but likewise, it may be what BA players in mini-groups are looking for. 

 

The slavish adherence to "a correct way" (or even "an optimised way") of play  is unhelpful because it doesn't factor in micro-meta.  

 

Rather lets find out what he's been using, what he's been up against and see where it will help us or others. 

 

 

Oh I'm not saying anything against his local meta. It's cool if it works for him. Doesn't change that it's a terrible advice when you don't know that others play in a similar meta in general.

[Gingerninja]

I know the statement was a little provocative. And of course its good to be active in all phases. But i think their might be something in playing to our strengths. We have a lot of ways to buff melee units. Why not use those to their full extent. So far I only faced IG, Admec, Chaos soup and two SM lists, all shooty lists and they have all had their castle. We also play with kind of heavy terrain which makes it easier. Also all my units except my troops got jump pack, and the mobility we get from that is amazing.

[Jolemai]

Spoke too soon, I have this IH chap in my group...

 

https://www.goonhammer.com/tournament-preview-three-cool-lists-from-seeds-of-destruction/

[Aothaine]

Thank you very much for the batrep. Sounds like it was a fun and challenging game for sure.

 

 

1: Move and fire heavy weapons.

2: AP+1 for heavy. 

3: Reroll 1's to hit. 

><; The missile launcher+4snipers make it great.

 

(Means you can move 16" with your speeder and take shots with the guys inside)

Even Eliminators become VERY scary. 

 

 

Good lord this sounds amazing! I've been wanting to use speeders for years and finally have a decent army to use them with. Time to order up some scout sniper boxes and land speeder storms. :D This sounds almost too good to be true. I love it!

 

 

Also, for everyone bemoaning that the IH codex is too good. You need to remember that every codex coming out from now on is going to fill their role and do it exceptionally well. Can't wait to see what is in store for the new Blood Angels codex. I'm sure people are going to be crying rivers when they find out death company get something like a 5+ FNP and attack twice in combat like berzerkers.