DarkChaplain Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Had similar thoughts to Roomsky. What a dumpster fire that "review" is, it beggars belief. Looking at that user's post history doesn't inspire trust either. At any rate, he doesn't seem to understand the structure of the series, nor the sheer scale of the Siege. His blatantly silly wishlisting just sets him up for failure right off the bat. No idea how skipping book 3 and just going for book 4 (because Abnett, duh, he'll save the series!) is supposed to make sense in a series where plotlines arch over the entire 8 book series (and beyond, looking at Sons of the Selenar), but okay. The comments are the usual reddit circlejerk; it's the reason why I'm rather selective about subreddits I read and post on, while particularly avoiding fandoms. Lotsa people flaming content they have no clue about, to farm easy karma. Roomsky 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5438714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Rawl Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 I just read a scathing review. If its contents are true, just on merit on what is decribed, omitted and how much space devoted to the sub-plot of the mustered human soldier... Yikes. https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/e4553r/siege_of_terra_first_wall_is_an_epic_letdown_is/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share First Wall has problems like any story, but it is nowhere near as bad this dude is saying. From reading his review he was expecting a FW Black Book where every detail of the campaign is listed out in extreme detail. The Siege of Terra series was never going to be that, they are focused on the key defining moments within the Siege and how they were allowed to come to pass through multiple perspectives. I completely disagree with this dude about how Dorn and Perturabo are portrayed in this book. Gav really went out to making sure we understand each of their motivations clearly and whats more important too them, and Gav did this extremely well through how he wanted us to experience the story. We never get any part of the story from Dorn's perspective and the reason for this is mainly that he has to deal with an entire continent. He states this himself he cannot be everywhere and is clearly under a lot of strain from how his sons, mortals, and others are viewing him. Writing it this way shows us that Dorn views the entire palace as his objective and is comfortable leaving sections of the defense to his sons, and we view his overall strategy through two lenses which are the good son, Fafnir Rann. And the bad son, Sigismund. Rann obeys his father but still has enough sense to question his orders to himself, he knows he doesn't have the whole picture and trusts his father knows what he is doing is the best course for the long run. He has a moment talking briefly with Dorn when he requests destroying the bridges connecting the space port to the wall, and Dorn denies this request as the defenders will need them for when Guilliman, Russ, and the Lion arrive. The three will have the same problem Horus is facing now, the port is the only way to land the heaviest machines and they will need it for the counter attack. He also asks Rann if he needs himself to be present but Rann objects to this as he knows Dorn's attention is needed on the entire siege and not on one point, he does however request reinforcements to be led by Sigismund which Dorn grudgingly accepts. Sigismund's perspective is filled with his own self doubts and attempts at atonement to Dorn. Dorn cannot trust Sigismund as he knows full well his First Captain may go on a suicidal charge and take god knows how many others with him in his attempt at "Forgiveness". There is a part where Sigismund is actively seeking Abaddon and not putting his full attention onto the defense, and it takes Dorn to bring him back on track with a savage rebuke and we clearly see that Dorn is more annoyed at the time he has lost delivering it to him. Sigismund fails to see the strategy of the traitors until its too late and the port falls to Perturabo. Perturabo's part in the story is usually from his perspective, and even when it isn't, it is clear he is utterly consumed with his goal for watching everything Dorn holds dear burn. He doesn't care about how the others are doing in cracking the defenses and is actively laughing at how the Daemon Primarch's become utterly pathetic when near the Emperor's Ward. We do not see any part of Perturabo's plan or strategy only that he is willing to sacrifice every warrior in his legion to do it, and it is initially frustrating but pays off in a big way with the stories climax. The frustration is also mirrored from a duel perspective from Kroeger and Forrix who are trying to get their fathers attention and they only get it when Kroeger states he has found a way in before he has. Pert allows him to carry out his plan and tells Forrix to follow Kroegers lead regardless of his doubts and thoughts about it but assures Forrix privately he will tell him his plans when the time is right. Forrix is the good son in this story being what the Iron Warriors could have been, while Kroeger is a glimpse of what they will become in the far future. We spend more time with Forrix in the story and it focuses solely on his foundation of belief that Perturabo will not just use and exploit them like others have with the VI legion. He holds to that belief all the way through that their is a point to this strategy and that they are not dying for just a petty rivalry with the Siege going on, but this is ultimately shattered when its revealed what Perts plan was and how much he has told his sons. Which was nothing. Forrix hammers this point home to the reader by stating that for all Perturabos rages about how his legion is treated, and how others bleed it so they can stand atop their own glory without a thought or care about them. And yet he has done the exact same thing as them, its shown even further in the book when we are at the moment Dorn and Perturabo meet. It's from Perts perspective and he is full on gloat, and smug mode while Forrix is communicating to him that they are still being attacked and need support, Pert is literally at that moment standing among a field of dead Iron Warriors just so he can tell Dorn that he is better than him. Dorn tries to goad him to a challenge that Pert almost falls for, but it takes Forrix screaming at him again that this is what Dorn wants, he wants to buy time so that they can evacuate more Fists to the Palace for later battles. Pert initially goes to cut the communication off before he finally sees some sense and watches Dorn retreat. That one part exemplifies both characters perfectly, Perturabo is so focused on destroying Dorn that he ignores his sons plight while Dorn would sacrifice himself to save any who can fight another day. I didn't intend for this to be a massive response, I really liked this book for what it was and looking forward to the others. aa.logan, DarkChaplain and Roomsky 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5438718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 "Star Wars: A New Hope is an absolute freakin' nightmare of a movie that should be avoided at all costs...I mean, you don't even know who Luke's father is and they only have one Death Star! Should be actively avoided to preserve your love of Star Wars." -that same Reddit reviewer. <eye roll> Ok let's get back to actual discussion on this thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5438736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 I take it Satarael (Dark Mech character) doesn't do much of significance then? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5438737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 That sounds like Gav really nailed what lies at the core of Perturabo: His martyr complex telling him that it's others that force him to do bad things, to waste his sons in meat grinders, while hypocritical doing the same even unasked and uncaring for it. He's blind to his own hypocrisy, that so much of what he is railing against is near-exclusively self-inflicted, but he will use these self-inflicted wounds to justify his rage against others regardless. His psychology as a character is hugely interesting to me, and has been from way back when. Perturabo is the kind of guy who will keep hitting himself while claiming somebody else is guiding his fist, when really, it is all he really knows to do at this point. But instead of stopping to hit himself, and realizing that he should reevaluate his own actions and motivations, he'll only hit harder in an attempt to prove himself right, that it's not really him that's at fault. 1ncarnadine and Kelborn 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5438748 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Rawl Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 (edited) That sounds like Gav really nailed what lies at the core of Perturabo: His martyr complex telling him that it's others that force him to do bad things, to waste his sons in meat grinders, while hypocritical doing the same even unasked and uncaring for it. He's blind to his own hypocrisy, that so much of what he is railing against is near-exclusively self-inflicted, but he will use these self-inflicted wounds to justify his rage against others regardless. His psychology as a character is hugely interesting to me, and has been from way back when. Perturabo is the kind of guy who will keep hitting himself while claiming somebody else is guiding his fist, when really, it is all he really knows to do at this point. But instead of stopping to hit himself, and realizing that he should reevaluate his own actions and motivations, he'll only hit harder in an attempt to prove himself right, that it's not really him that's at fault. Exactly this. Hayley exemplifies this in his Primarch book where his adoptive sister tell him it to his face. He will always complain about being the martyr and will do so bitterly and without end about how he is rescinded to his fate. But he still chooses to do it, even when he has a chance to do it differently. It's why it's really sad when he is gloating to Dorn about winning, and that he is purely lost in anything else but just destroying Dorn. He gave up the near entirety of his Legions Armoured Might just to have that moment in taking Dorn's first wall, and Dorn who is in utter control of the situation just states its the first wall, its was always meant to fall as every soldier alive today is another who fights tomorrow. I take it Satarael (Dark Mech character) doesn't do much of significance then? Oh he does, his intervention is that unexpected too Dorn that he rages that much it breaks through his stoney mask in front of his command centre Edited December 1, 2019 by Mr.Havoc DarkChaplain, Beren and Tymell 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5438757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedor Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 (edited) I just read a scathing review. If its contents are true, just on merit on what is decribed, omitted and how much space devoted to the sub-plot of the mustered human soldier... Yikes. https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/e4553r/siege_of_terra_first_wall_is_an_epic_letdown_is/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share Very first thing i see when i click on it is an all-caps plea to upvote for the community to be aware of this abomination....yeah, the guy is obviously high on his own ego and being the great deliverer of imperial truth. It's rarely hard to spot someone that is trying to construct an exaggerated narrative for their own benefit rather than an honest balanced review. On the conscripts soldiers thing, i'd seen a lot of opinions over the years wanting more of that human element, especially for the siege but it's no surprise the "mah primarchs need to be having an epic beatdown " inclined will go berserk the minute we get it (regardless of it being done well or not). Edited December 1, 2019 by Fedor Sandlemad and DarkChaplain 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5438839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allart01 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) I just finished this book. I would like to say that I'm absolutely amazed and made proud by my pricy, rare and beautiful Siege of Terra books, but I have to admit to myself that... well, to be polite, I'm not happy with the First Wall. I'm not one of Gav's most ferocious detractors -I find him to be a little hit or miss, but he does have his qualities- but I really struggled to finish this book. While I devoured the previous two in a couple of days, this one almost took me a full week. I'm not good at writing reviews, so I'll keep it short. I think this book has two major problems: the first is that it doesn't convey the sense of scale and awe for the events that are unfolding, something that Solar War and The Lost and the Damned did pretty well. No zoom out to show you the magnitude of the battle, or even to give you a wider picture of what is actually happening from a strategical point of view. For this last reason, I -admittedly, not a native speaker- found the battle for the spaceport to be almost unintelligible; a series of unrelated events that just happen while characters do stuff. After that, it's "ok, we reached the word count - time do declare this battle lost and go away". And speaking of word count, the distribution in this book is all over the place - here we come to problem number two. The Addaba free corps. The basic idea was cool - but I think Gav felt too much authorial love for it, and it ended taking up way more space than necessary in the novel. Many people had been asking for more human POV during the Horus Heresy series, and I was among them. But what I wanted was to be shown the sheer, raw violence and horror of this conflict in a way that the sensibility of an Astartes cannot convey - not to follow the story of a 17 years old girl that falls in love with a tank commander only to break up with him a couple of chapters later, and doesn't interact with the Siege in any way, until maybe the very last chapter. To think that we spent 100+ pages of the main, numbered series for this just makes me feel sad. And Gav even says in the afterword that he had to cut a good chunk of it! If he had this idea and he liked it so much, I think he should have pitched it for the Novella series -we're going to have it for this very purpose, after all. Believe me, writing this does not give me satisfaction in any shape or form. My expectations were admittedly high, and this just didn't deliver. Not in my eyes. Very negative, I know. I'm sorry. Perhaps I need to sleep on it. Edited December 2, 2019 by The_Bloody Indefragable, Preliminary Bombardment and Fedor 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5439482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 Finished. I didn't really like it and so won't bother doing my traditional highlights reel. It's certainly not the raging dumpster fire that some people are apparently making it out to be but I still can't help but be disappointed. Thorpe just isn't a good enough author to capture the grandeur of what he's trying to describe. Books in this series need to form part of a cohesive whole, but they also should be able to stand on their own feet. The First Wall, in my opinion, does the former reasonably well, but not the latter. The Dorn vs. Perturabo subplot, as others have already noted, was one of the stronger parts of the book and is nothing at all like it is described by the screeching critics found on Reddit. But at the end of the day this, like LATD, isn't a book I'd recommend to people. It's just a book that is fortunate enough to be part of an important and long-awaited series and any importance or meaningfulness it has is derived purely from that fact. I don't regret reading it but I also can't see myself picking it up again. 1ncarnadine 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5439510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 <snip> Very negative, I know. I'm sorry. Perhaps I need to sleep on it. How you feel is how you feel. You shouldn't be ashamed to admit you like or don't like something, especially if you give concrete reasons as to why you feel the way you do (which you did). Allart01 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5439535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preliminary Bombardment Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Just finished it, while it lagged a but around the 3d/5 mark I really enjoyed the climax. Indefragable 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5439683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Just finished it, while it lagged a but around the 3d/5 mark I really enjoyed the climax. cretacianborn, bluntblade, Preliminary Bombardment and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5440266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfroCampbell Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 Just finished this book. Don't wanna review it cos if you are reading this you should go read the book, but loved it, easily one of the greatest in the last couple of years from Black Library, and does an excellent job of fleshing out a few characters (eg Amon) who have previously been fairly minor. Some big moments that are just epic in scale and long awaited meet-ups. So good. Roomsky and aa.logan 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5440916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roomsky Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 The Siege of Terra – The First Wall Gav Thorpe Wow, book 3 already. At least, for those whom BL manages to extort for pricey advanced Limited Editions. And the friends of those people. I’m glad for everyone enjoying their LE’s, they're quite nice, but it’s the Siege of Bloody Terra, they would have no trouble selling out with a parallel release. Anyway. I get that it’s the Siege and they’ve been working super hard on it, but it’s perhaps a bit unfair of we the community to view it as anything other than fancy Horus Heresy Novels. Gav was never going to ascend to a higher plane for those that dislike his work just because they authors had a few extra meetings. Let’s be fair, people. Is this Thorpe’s best work? Hell, I don’t know, could be. I’ll need to read it again in 6 years when it comes out in MMPB to really make up my mind. But it’s not bad at all, and to my eyes, definitely not as bad as certain parties previously mentioned in this thread would have you believe. I certainly prefer it to The Lost and the Damned. It’s an interesting game to try and figure whose storylines will continue throughout the series, and whose terminate in each book. They have a lot to wrap up, so I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the last we see of Forrix outside of cameos. He’s been maneuvered into a plausible starting point for his attitude in Storm of Iron, and fairly believably (from his point of view) as well. Excluding some of Perty’s behaviour, this plot line is generally well done I thought. Kroeger is blunt without being stupid, Forrix is tired of this :cuss without being treasonous, and there are a lot of nice vignettes that maintain the Iron Warriors identity without turning them into memes. Pert himself is a mixed bag. We don’t get anything as eye-rolling out of Dorn or Perturabo here like we did in LatD, but Perty’s decision to confuse Dorn by sending the most tactically inept of the Trident to command his forces is to a logical back-flip what the sun is to burned meatball. It doesn’t really pay off either, Dorn seems consistently distant throughout and I don’t see any reason why Pert couldn’t have come up with the same thing, considering it’s his usual throw-my-warriors-into-the-yellow-trapery tactic. Fully admitting to my authorial bias to French over Thorpe, I’m not big on him reverting to his early-heresy level of bitter either. All that said, I appreciate that he and Dorn didn’t get into a physical confrontation, it is far more in character for the both of them to do some verbal sparring over their logistical abilities. The exchange could certainly have been longer, but Gav’s voices for the characters are fine and much better than Haley’s. The sections with Rann and the front line Fists were in, my opinion, the worst part of the book, and went a long way into making it feel bloated. They don’t know Pert’s plan, so they only seem to exist to have lots of Space Marine action and some smarm from Rann. It becomes less and less relevant as the book goes on as well, eventually being entirely replaced by the Sigismund plot. Far more interesting (and less tedious) would have been to see Dorn trying to wrap his head around what Pert is doing in the strategium instead, with Sigismund being a major character there and eventually being deployed for some fightan like he does in the novel proper. There’s not much else to say because the segments have no substance, and lack the character development of the Iron Warriors POV. The Keeler/Amon stuff was interesting enough, though I’m not sure why it took 200 pages for them to show up. A letter to authors – when you set up a mystery plot at the start of the story, it creates tension that, when handled well, can keep the reader hooked throughout. When you set it up halfway through, the reader is unsure if it’s important or not, and by the time they realize it is there’s about ¼ of your book left. I did enjoy most of the content, I’m glad to see more early-series characters make their return, though they absolutely should have done so long before now. The questions about the Imperial Truth vs Worship of the Emperor are generally interesting; I find characters bouncing some dramatic irony speculation off each other is where Gav does his best work. Abaddon is back to being somewhat dignified and ambiguously pre-blessed by Chaos, which I only see as a good thing. He and Layak are both far less cartoonish (and consequently annoying) than they are in LatD, but don’t seem to have much relevance beyond giving Abaddon a through-line and having Layak actually feature in the book where he gets killed. Khârn is passable but I didn’t see much continuity between him here and the rest of the series. Things like his overpowering Sigismund and being swatted by Dorn are both perfectly fine and believable in context as well; don’t read spoiler recaps to form your opinions, people. Zenobi’s plotline is obviously the most contentious, but I enjoyed it quite a bit. A human perspective is extremely important in these books, and all three so far have done well in putting astartes warfare and the absolute scale of the conflict into perspective. Zenobi is appreciably human, we get to see the oft ignored logistical challenges of moving so many people in the nightmare future of 30k, and I thought the twist of the Addabans being loyal to Horus all along was an excellent gut-punch that ended just when it needed to. If anything, I’m most excited to read the book for this to look for the hints of their true loyalty seeded throughout. I’m not counting it for or against this book that it’s so obviously part of a proper series. While I would have liked it to be a bit more self-contained, that may be impossible at this point and I don’t want to open up frustrations about x legion or y character not appearing just because the Siege is happening. This is a Fists and Iron Warriors book and we didn’t need big appearances by anyone else. This book is at least 50 pages too long. Besides the Rann fluff, Zenobi’s plotline absolutely took up too many pages despite how much I liked it. The Keeler/Amon plot is already there to break up the action, it could have been better spread throughout and not required a regiment walking slowly to a battle zone to be featured in almost every chapter. I’ll never be a fan of Thorpe’s prose, it’s perfectly serviceable here but nothing outstanding, even for him. The book doesn’t really have the momentum the previous two entries did, despite having a far more significant conflict than in LatD. I admit these are vague and sweeping complaints, but they're fairly big knocks against a 450-page experience. Overall, I enjoyed it, but it’s nothing too special. Some good moments, some tedious, a net positive in my opinion. I’m very interested to see the reaction this gets when it gets a wide release. To Taste ANR: 6.5/10 At the moment: Solar War > The First Wall > Lost and the Damned 1ncarnadine, DarKnight, aa.logan and 4 others 7 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5442634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gongsun Zan Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 I agree with Roomsky, this book really could have used a bit more time in the editing room. There are a couple of minor POVs that don't really add anything to the book, and feel like they were just there for the sake of being there (Khârn is a notable example). Gav also struggles a lot with capturing the scale of the siege - it seems his solution is just to add a bunch of extra zeros to everything, but he doesn't seem to get that a fight between 40 guys is vastly different from having multiple brigades and divisions shooting at each other. Instead of trying to figure out how such a force can even function on any operational level, we just get repeated instances of Rann assuring the reader that his second-in-command knows all this already so that Rann can personally go lead some fight or another. On the flip side, the book is a lot better when it tackles the siege on a much smaller scale - i.e. the parts with Zenobi, Amon and Forrix. Overall I found it to be a rather uneven book. It's good when its good, but its very underwhelming when it isn't. Roomsky, DarKnight, aa.logan and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5443113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedor Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) I agree with Roomsky, this book really could have used a bit more time in the editing room. There are a couple of minor POVs that don't really add anything to the book, and feel like they were just there for the sake of being there (Khârn is a notable example). already so that Rann can personally go lead some fight or another. Gav also struggles a lot with capturing the scale of the siege - it seems his solution is just to add a bunch of extra zeros to everything, but he doesn't seem to get that a fight between 40 guys is vastly different from having multiple brigades and divisions shooting at each other. Instead of trying to figure out how such a force can even function on any operational level, we just get repeated instances of Rann assuring the reader that his second-in-command knows all this On the flip side, the book is a lot better when it tackles the siege on a much smaller scale - i.e. the parts with Zenobi, Amon and Forrix. Overall I found it to be a rather uneven book. It's good when its good, but its very underwhelming when it isn't. This sort of thing was always going to be an issue for a sub-series that is basically a massive complex multi-front battle, at least if it's an aspect that bothers people generally in BL books. None of the BL writers have ever really demonstrated that they have much talent or more likely even an interest in a harder/more realistic military tactical focus on the battles in their books. That's generally fine by me as i don't look to 30k or 40k (or most of my sci-fi and fantasy in general) to excel or go too far in depth there, though it surprisingly bother me quite a bit on a reread of Solar War. French more or less handwaves away the Terran and Luna defences in that with one big ritual. very much doubt when the series is done we are going to have the purely military engagement side of The Siege be too strategically intricate or skilfully done on a tactical level. It's not what the series has ever really been about. I imagine Forgeworld black books on it will be the place that goes a lot more in-depth there, if they ever get that far. Edited December 8, 2019 by Fedor Roomsky and Ingo Pech 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5443127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa.logan Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 I doubt I’m going to change anyone’s mind here, but one of the things that I like most about Zenobi’s arc is the way that it conveys the scale of the conflict. As I said earlier, the fact that it uses locations we as a reader can accurately place on a map, the journey from the Addaba Hive feels more ‘real’ than most others in the series; it’s a trip that would conceivably be undertaken by modern soldiers in a day, two at most but here is spread out, admittedly through necessity, over months. Even had everything gone to plan, their staging point would have been far far away from the Palace itself. These troop movements and musters have been lined up for years, the numbers involved so large that hundreds of thousands fighting bodies arriving in a day or a month makes little difference. So we have a Hive city, whose entire existence for the best part of a decade has been gearing up for this war, sending out however many of their population on mighty slow aircraft and then trains to fight in it, knowing that they’ll likely not survive but going anyway. In any other setting, this would be a massive sacrifice, noble but grim, yet here in the Siege, these countless deaths will be an afterthought, deployed so far from the front lines and held in reserve. Reading, I couldn’t help wonder how many other times this process is being repeated around Terra- zooming into such an ‘insignificant’ group of soldiers really casts the bigger picture into a stark contrast; in an event where the deaths of hundreds of Astartes can be glossed over in a sentence, what practical difference can thousands of mortal conscripts make? DarKnight, DarkChaplain, Roomsky and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5443132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 I'm curious if some would change their minds when reading the series in a row. Think I'm gonna wait 'til I got all parts and then enjoy it like a series marathon. ;) DarkChaplain 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5443137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 "None of the BL writers have ever really demonstrated that they have much talent or more likely even an interest in a harder/more realistic military tactical focus on the battles in their books." Yes, the Siege of Terra is/will be reading more like Tolkien's Fall of Gondolin (the better written portions of the Siege) and less like a hard military sci-fi version of Stalingrad or Leningrad in space. 40K is that type of setting and more importantly, the BL stable doesn't have that type of authour. EDIT: *is not hopkins 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5443138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeLeto69 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Not a dig at anyone but W40k is a sci-fantasy setting full of magic, daemons etc. It has never been, isn’t and never will be hard sci fi. Surely nobody expects that? Knockagh, DarkChaplain and Kelborn 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5443181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedor Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Not a dig at anyone but W40k is a sci-fantasy setting full of magic, daemons etc. It has never been, isn’t and never will be hard sci fi. Surely nobody expects that? Not hard sci-fi expectation overall, but over the years i've seen a consistent minority of fans complain about the military side of the lore in general online discussion. I'd say there's definitely a subset that would wecome more time devoted to the strategic and tactical side of stories featuring Marines and the Guard. Basically more of the military sci-fi less of the space opera and fantasy. Some of the Imperial Guard books flirt with that kind of approach from what i remember, like Rebel Winter and Imperial Glory. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5443201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Time of yet another imprint to join Warhammer Horror and Warhammer Crime, to be announced next year at the Black Library Weekender: Warhammer SciFi In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, Sometimes there even is Hard Science DukeLeto69 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5443205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeLeto69 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) Time of yet another imprint to join Warhammer Horror and Warhammer Crime, to be announced next year at the Black Library Weekender: Warhammer SciFi In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, Sometimes there even is Hard Science Lol just being pedantic but that is soooo the wrong typeface for “hard sci fi” Edit - weird it changes font in the quote Edited December 8, 2019 by DukeLeto69 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5443207 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) To be honest I’d love a book about a magos discovering something we take for granted like its this huge earth shattering discovery. ‘Sire, by using the collected ambient radiation from solar energy we can power our space stations without servitors running inside of giant wheel cranks’ Edited December 8, 2019 by Marshal Rohr 1ncarnadine 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5443213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Time of yet another imprint to join Warhammer Horror and Warhammer Crime, to be announced next year at the Black Library Weekender: Warhammer SciFi In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, Sometimes there even is Hard Science Lol just being pedantic but that is soooo the wrong typeface for “hard sci fi” Edit - weird it changes font in the quote I figured Comic Sans would nicely underline the hyperbolic, silly announcement. I'm German, I'm still trying to learn how this comedy/humor thing works, apologies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358940-the-siege-of-terra-the-first-wall/page/8/#findComment-5443220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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