Ex Tenebris: Best Build?

[Dracos]

I’m mimicking a thread SyNidus started on Oppressor’s End. I want to do more detailed break down of certain Strats, Traits, and Relics. So here we are.

 

I hear a lot of this is an auto include and I’m tempted to say I agree, but with most lost also bringing 3x Eliminators and the utility of Stalker Bolt rifles ... is it really?

 

.... and if it is, which build works best? I’ve seen Phobos Cpt but mostly Lt put forward.

 

 

 

I was really bummed to be told Marksman Honors couldn’t be combined with it :( (if anyone has a page and verse for that I’d appreciate hearing where). I think I’m still using the PLT but looking for a Warlord Trait that compliments that build. Either that or I have to use a character closer to my opponents killey stuff as my Warlord and I’d rather not. :)

[dode74]

 

 

I was really bummed to be told Marksman Honors couldn’t be combined with it  (if anyone has a page and verse for that I’d appreciate hearing where).

Here is the text for MH from the SM codex:

 

6 MARKSMAN’S HONOURS
This warlord is one of the finest sharpshooters in the galaxy.
Add 1 to the Damage characteristic of ranged weapons this
Warlord is equipped with. This does not apply to Grenades
or Relics.

It's worth noting that Battlescribe has this wrong at the moment.

 

I think it's best for Lt, either Phobos or Primaris, because it's the biggest upgrade for him.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

I agree with regards to the Lt, specifically Phobos. I think the Phobos Captain is the corresponding best choice for Korvidari Bolts (should you so choose).

 

Best to get value out of that +1 to hit!

[SkimaskMohawk]

Well on its own merits it gives +1 to hit, ignores cover, character sniping at 36" Assault 3 str 4 -2 D2. That's a lot of rules, a lot of range and a fairly good anti infantry statline.

 

So other than sniping characters; it lets you circumvent the -1 from raven guard/alaitoc/mechanicum/etc... traits as well as ignore cover from prepared positions/raven guard/tyranids and...cover. Or, the bonus to hit can be used to make a lieutenant more reliable when it comes to shooting, making a multi-shot relic more attractive than usual on them.

 

It can also snipe characters.

 

To me, all of that seals the deal into making it a great relic. The last real question is who to put it on?

 

Primaris Captain w/MC stalker: if you have one of these and want to use it in a game, then give him ex tenebris. It's an upgrade in every possible way; native BS 2+ and reroll to hit aura makes him very reliable, but the +1 will only see benefit against to hit modifiers. Cheaper of the two captain options.

 

Phobos Captain: unfortunately does not benefit as much as the standard primaris captain from ex tenebris as his gun already serves a similar role, being 30" Assault 1 Str 4 -2 D3. That being said, if you're going to be deploying him up the board with concealed positions, you'll be able to leverage the range better than a primaris captain in the backline. On the whole, still good, but the Phobos can be used in other ways like with the Bolts or Oppressors end. The most expensive option.

 

Phobos lieutenant w/MC Occurs: similar to the phobos captain, his gun doesn't get as much of a sheer upgrade, but you do get more than the captain did; 12" range, guaranteed 3 shots from max 2, -2 AP from 0 and the +1 to hit. This guy can also function well in the mid board clump with his access to deepstrike, something the normal primaris lt can't leverage as easily.

 

Primaris lieutenant w/MC stalker: same main points as the captain, except the +1 to hit makes him hit on 2s against non-modifiers. Against T3 during surgical strikes he does the same as the captain, but slightly edges him out against T4. The cheapest option and imo the best recipient.

[Archon_77]

I love to plop a Phobos Lt. with it in the middle of my 2 (sometimes 3) Eliminators... he provides some amazing rerolls that can turn into even more mortal wounds, while being no slouch himself in causing them.  As he's Phobos he can Inflitrate with the Eliminators and be EXACTLY where he needs to be.  This does not take advantage of the mobility of Assault Three, but making a super firebase is working very nicely in my meta.  Bonus if you screen them properly with other units or can put them high enough on ruins that they can't be easily charged.  

[SkimaskMohawk]

I love to plop a Phobos Lt. with it in the middle of my 2 (sometimes 3) Eliminators... he provides some amazing rerolls that can turn into even more mortal wounds, while being no slouch himself in causing them. As he's Phobos he can Inflitrate with the Eliminators and be EXACTLY where he needs to be. This does not take advantage of the mobility of Assault Three, but making a super firebase is working very nicely in my meta. Bonus if you screen them properly with other units or can put them high enough on ruins that they can't be easily charged.

Uh the phobos lt doesnt have concealed positions.

[Archon_77]

 

I love to plop a Phobos Lt. with it in the middle of my 2 (sometimes 3) Eliminators... he provides some amazing rerolls that can turn into even more mortal wounds, while being no slouch himself in causing them. As he's Phobos he can Inflitrate with the Eliminators and be EXACTLY where he needs to be. This does not take advantage of the mobility of Assault Three, but making a super firebase is working very nicely in my meta. Bonus if you screen them properly with other units or can put them high enough on ruins that they can't be easily charged.

Uh the phobos lt doesnt have concealed positions.

 

Ah, I misspoke.  I meant deepstriking him into their midst.

[Bluflash]

Gonna be honest, I messed up the Lt.'s deployment for a few games running. I keep thinking since he's Phobos with a Camo Cloak, he can scout deploy. I'm still not sure what GW was thinking when they created the Phobos Lt. datasheets. Reaver with no grav-chute or a Incursor without conceal deploy...

[Cryptix]

I'd prefer giving a Phobos Captain Marksman's Honors and the Oppressor's End, so the Ex Tenebris usually goes on the normal Primaris captain babysitting my lascannon devestators

[Nusquam]

I tried ExT on a Primaris Captain three times now and enjoyed the results by sitting having him sit with a dev squad to give rerolls. Third game he had to run out and cut down an ork unit so captain stats, sword, and the invul helped a lot.

[Shas Oh Dear]

Gonna be honest, I messed up the Lt.'s deployment for a few games running. I keep thinking since he's Phobos with a Camo Cloak, he can scout deploy. I'm still not sure what GW was thinking when they created the Phobos Lt. datasheets. Reaver with no grav-chute or a Incursor without conceal deploy...

Hate to be the bearer of more bad news but he doesn't have a camo cloak either.

[Brom MKIV]

What up fellas I'm back from years in the warp! Just wanted to chime in here..

 

I don't feel there is a 'best' build for ex tenebris. But one option you might consider is a 'flex' character, if you build that way like I tend to.

For that I'd say the phobos wins out. Not recipient of the free relic means you can use relics of the chapter before the battle (see discussion elsewhere for timing) to choose either ex tenebris or oppressors end for example. Opposing eliminators- ex tenebris. Hard to shoot down beatstick- oppressors end.  

 

Anyway I personally prefer the captain builds over LTs due to combat profiles which means they are much better targets for shadowstep in a pinch. 

[ShinyRhino]

Gonna be honest, I messed up the Lt.'s deployment for a few games running. I keep thinking since he's Phobos with a Camo Cloak, he can scout deploy. I'm still not sure what GW was thinking when they created the Phobos Lt. datasheets. Reaver with no grav-chute or a Incursor without conceal deploy...

Psst. He doesn't have a camo cloak either. Grav chute or nothing.

[MajorNese]

I don't feel there is a 'best' build for ex tenebris. But one option you might consider is a 'flex' character, if you build that way like I tend to.

For that I'd say the phobos wins out. Not recipient of the free relic means you can use relics of the chapter before the battle (see discussion elsewhere for timing) to choose either ex tenebris or oppressors end for example.

Hate to be that guy, but...that's not possible.

The relic replaces a "combat knife", and the grav chute lieutenant variant has "paired combat blades". The non-grav reiver variant has a "combat knife", even if he's the one who has less need of it. Turns out the armoury guys don't have the space to store the second blade, or are too embarassed they don't have a paired relic blade in stock, they only trade one for one.

 

Sadly that's what GW does these days - the designers make cool stuff, and the rules only reflect the models and don't deviate from the kit in any way. Extremely unintuitive, but that's what is written...

[Brom MKIV]

I should have been more clear. I'm talking specifically about the phobos armour captain with combat knife and instigator bc. Thats my current favorite build for various reasons.. one being he can flex into OE or ET.

[Bluflash]

Well double drat!

Good news is he's never been targeted, so that's never come into play...

 

Seriously GW.... *Shakes Head*

[SyNidus]

I should have been more clear. I'm talking specifically about the phobos armour captain with combat knife and instigator bc. Thats my current favorite build for various reasons.. one being he can flex into OE or ET.

That is actually pretty brilliant. I think a key thing we should bear in mind is that we can choose what extra relics we want before the game starts. Now that you put it that way, I'm liking the phobos captain more.

[Dracos]

^This^ ^This^ is why I love my RG Brothers.

 

Polite, solid discussion and correction when needed that is well delivered and well received.

 

I too have had my eyes opened to the flexibility of the Phobos Captain in this regard. Thank you. So we have the PCpt higher cost but more flexible Relic option vs a lower cost and Deep Striking PLT. Is that a decent summary at this point?

 

So leaving Oppressor’s End to the thread SyNidus started (which we should all revisit now I think) if one was to choose the Phobos LT, which direction would we be looking at in regards to Warlord Traits (and potentially Stratagems)? I usually try not to build around Stratagem use as I see this as the arena where remaining flexible in resources is a must, even with two battalions but others might have ideas I haven’t thought of (aka Brom MkIV :))

 

PS: Bluflash, yeah no poop. I’m all for making a buck but the chaotic mess of Primaris Lt design is no excuse to screw up effectively matching relics/weapons with models

[ShinyRhino]

So leaving Oppressor’s End to the thread SyNidus started (which we should all revisit now I think) if one was to choose the Phobos LT, which direction would we be looking at in regards to Warlord Traits (and potentially Stratagems)? I usually try not to build around Stratagem use as I see this as the arena where remaining flexible in resources is a must, even with two battalions but others might have ideas I haven’t thought of (aka Brom MkIV :))

 

As mentioned before, I like the Grav Chute Phobos Lieutenant with Master of the Vanguardc alongside something that drops in with him like Reivers or Inceptors. You could also stack Swift and Deadly on him via Trifold Path to make even faster units.

 

Or, stick Feigned Flight and Shadowmaster on him to make him super annoying.

[Brom MKIV]

 

I should have been more clear. I'm talking specifically about the phobos armour captain with combat knife and instigator bc. Thats my current favorite build for various reasons.. one being he can flex into OE or ET.

That is actually pretty brilliant. I think a key thing we should bear in mind is that we can choose what extra relics we want before the game starts. Now that you put it that way, I'm liking the phobos captain more.

 

Thanks brother, and yes exactly!

We don't have the sheer brutality of IH but we have unequaled adaptability. I'm trying to carry that concept into other aspects of the game such as flex character builds.. 

Smash captains that can flex into master crafted on his hammer and shadowmaster. 

Phobos characters that can flex into lord of deceipt.

 

 

On that note heres another build since I'm on a infantry character kick atm..

 

Primaris captain- mc auto bolt rifle, power sword. Flex- burning blade / bellicos bolt rifle / vox espiritum. 

 

This one is not nearly as tasty.. but not bad either for 86 pts. Consider when going successors with limited access to relics of the ravenspire. In conjunction with hungry for battle, ww of rage for example. Taking burning blade allows this guy to threaten even light mech reliably particularly with imperiums sword. Or he can take nothing. Game time decisions are good and while not strictly competitive level I enjoy the challenge of winning with builds like these.

 

 

I was really bummed to be told Marksman Honors couldn’t be combined with it (if anyone has a page and verse for that I’d appreciate hearing where). I think I’m still using the PLT but looking for a Warlord Trait that compliments that build. Either that or I have to use a character closer to my opponents killey stuff as my Warlord and I’d rather not.

To revisit this for sec.. I never play something that could easily become a point of contention. Just my own personal rule and I don't hold this type of thing against other players who do. Typically. 

That said I believe the two DO stack. Marksmans honours effects all non relic weapons. The model is given korvidari bolts, which is not a relic weapon and doesn't change the status of any weapons. Then the non relic weapon can choose to fire a relic bolt. IMO it was designed that way intentionally. Anyway i haven't used it yet.  

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

To revisit this for sec.. I never play something that could easily become a point of contention. Just my own personal rule and I don't hold this type of thing against other players who do. Typically. 

That said I believe the two DO stack. Marksmans honours effects all non relic weapons. The model is given korvidari bolts, which is not a relic weapon and doesn't change the status of any weapons. Then the non relic weapon can choose to fire a relic bolt. IMO it was designed that way intentionally. Anyway i haven't used it yet.  

 

Sadly it doesn't stack, as MH is a blanket on all relics, not just weapons. You can still choose to shoot off a 4 damage shot or the ignore LOS shot if you take both, but you won't get tthe combination.

[Dracos]

This definitely one of those paths we probably want to put a hold on until an FAQ hopefully makes a statement on.

[MajorNese]

I for one am sticking with the lieutenant, and the phobos lieutenant if I need the phobos WL trait table.

+1 to hit is utilized to full effect, the stock gun doesn't target characters - both would be wasted on a phobos captain, and one would be mostly wasted on a regular captain.

And usually there is one captain and one lieutenant - the stock lieutenant can't target characters or take other interesting relics/roles, yet the captain has some more interesting choices, like Issodon or Shrike, or the phobos captain as a cheaper (yet less efficient) option to target characters.

 

I should have been more clear. I'm talking specifically about the phobos armour captain with combat knife and instigator bc. Thats my current favorite build for various reasons.. one being he can flex into OE or ET.

Ah, sorry, I mixed up what you were talking about based on previous posts misinterpreting the phobos lieutenant loadout.

While I agree with the point that it's more flexible, the downside would be that the phobos captain already has a gun that can target characters, and has the AP and damage to make a shot count. It's nowhere near as good as Ex Tenebris, but if you wanted maximum character threat, the captain's Instigator is still better than the non-relic options for lieutenants.

 

And getting that flexibility without sacrificing the Instigator would involve taking a lieutenant too. And then you could just take both relics after all, making it kind of a moot point...yeah, what you said makes sense, if you want to use OE.

[Archon_77]

I too will stick with the LT as putting Ex Tenebris on him boosts his usual BS +3 to +2.   Powerful too is this with the rerollable 1's he natively provides.  

[thewarriorhunter]

I read through this a few days ago but it seems like the LT is the unit of choice. From looking at stats I think a Primaris LT is the better choice as opposed to a Phobos LT? The PLT seems to get more of an upgrade than Phobos (His rifle already ignores cover, more damage) and the only real sacrifice is grav-chute deployment, do I have that right?