Volkites, they worth it?

[AgramarTheLunarWolf]

Well, I love volkite weapons, aesthetically, but I never use one in my lists. I think they are great against light-armored troops but in Horus Heresy most of the fights are Astartes vs Astartes...

Pity, they are only for W30K.

 

So, that is my question, are they worth it?

 

Thanks

[Brother Pheidias]

The extra strength and deflagrate makes them more reliable against Astartes than bolters, so maybe? I both run them 1:2 in my White Scars Jetbikers, and with the Scars rules, they are well worth it. Also currently building a SoH army with 20 Reavers with Volkite Chargers, when they're done and I've gotten in some games, I'll let you know what I think?

 

[Marshal Rohr]

Yes because they’re awesome

[james71989]

I love volkite culverins. All 3 of my legions have at least 10. 4 shots each str6 with deflagrate is great at mowing down squads

[Brofist]

A S5 volkite is about the same as 4 bolter shots against marines. A S6 volkite is about the same as 5 bolter shots.

 

More clearly, it depends on your list. Is it worth taking a support squad that puts out ~25 bolter shots or do you have a 12 man tactical squad that can do the same? Thematically they are rad as hell, no arguing that. If you don't have a unit for forcing tons of saves its a good option.

[Cadmus Tyro]

I don’t think you can assess the effectiveness of volkite in a vacuum. Their inclusion in a list depends very much on the unit and the build for the army as a whole.

 

Let’s take a look at some examples:

 

Tactical support squad with Volkite chargers:

Tactical support squads can now take additional combat weapons, and the swap from flamer to volkite is free. So you effectively build a unit for close range support, that can also assault after shooting.

 

Tactical support with volkite calivers: fairly cheap mid to back field scoring unit. Given their 30” range and high strength, they will contribute more to a game than a objective camping tactical squad. Add a augery scanner to intercept units and push back infiltrators.

 

Heavy support squad with volkite culverins:

Good range moderate strength heavy 4 weapons, but adding preferred enemy makes this unit pretty brutal, ie via alpharius for the XXth or Autek Mor for the Xth. Granted not all legions have access to this, but a master of signal can help, and the new consul gives you master crafted.

 

Jetbikes with Culverins:

Jetbikes spend a lot of time jinking, so having a heavy 4 weapon will increase the probability of you hitting with those snap fire shots, for a moderate increase in cost over the stock heavy Bolter.

 

Medusa immortals with volkite chargers:

At two points per model, it would be rude not to! Forty volkite shots followed by 20 charging marines with FNP led by Autek mor (fearless).....

 

Terminators with chargers:

I’m not sure the upgrade is worth the points here, terminators can shoot with their combi bolters and charge, so they gain no benefit from the assault rule. Also, terminators are primarily an assault unit, so every additional kill reduces the likelihood of a successful charge. I can’t tell you how many times my terminators have forgone their shooting to reduce the risk of a failed charge....

 

Contemptors with culverins:

Again, IMHO, not worth the points, which is a shame because they look awesome. There are better options for the points.

 

I’m sure there are plenty more units to evaluate, but the principals remain the same. You need to weigh the cost of the upgrade against the benefit that it brings to the unit.

 

Cadmus

[Mogsam]

I use them on support squads in a rhino with world eaters. They are basically better tactical marines.

 

It's ace. They are just so much more of a threat than regular marines.

 

Culverns are great on heavy marines (bad on dreads) as they can mow down blobs and volume has a quality of its own. I've killed Russ and his terminator bodyguard with a squad before over a few turns.

[AgramarTheLunarWolf]

The extra strength and deflagrate makes them more reliable against Astartes than bolters, so maybe? I both run them 1:2 in my White Scars Jetbikers, and with the Scars rules, they are well worth it. Also currently building a SoH army with 20 Reavers with Volkite Chargers, when they're done and I've gotten in some games, I'll let you know what I think?

 

 

 

Oh, really like the idea for Sons of Horus, but my idea is use volkite chargers in Support Squads with transport

[AgramarTheLunarWolf]

I use them on support squads in a rhino with world eaters. They are basically better tactical marines.

 

It's ace. They are just so much more of a threat than regular marines.

 

Culverns are great on heavy marines (bad on dreads) as they can mow down blobs and volume has a quality of its own. I've killed Russ and his terminator bodyguard with a squad before over a few turns.

 

Yeah, that's my idea, but with drop pods and the rite of war Orbital Assault

[Indefragable]

<snip>

Tactical support squad with Volkite chargers:

Tactical support squads can now take additional combat weapons, and the swap from flamer to volkite is free. So you effectively build a unit for close range support, that can also assault after shooting.

 

<snip>

Cadmus

 

nvm I never noticed that.

[Marshal Vespasian]

I need to fill pretty exactly 225 pts for a list. A Support squite with culverins and artificer armour on the srage would fit that pretty much and increase my anti infantry power by a lot.

I think I might try that vs a contemptor with a fist and gravgun + volkite. And See what I like more. But I think 10 volkite bros would be nice for the home objectives.

[Slips]

Ive had ok success with a 10 Man Volkite Culverin Squad shooting flyers out of the sky through sheer volume of dice.

 

Sure, youre hitting on 6s and glancing on 6s vs AV12 but, in a pinch, it can come in useful when youre firing off 40 shots with a 10 man squad.

[Marshal Rohr]

Ive had ok success with a 10 Man Volkite Culverin Squad shooting flyers out of the sky through sheer volume of dice.

 

Sure, youre hitting on 6s and glancing on 6s vs AV12 but, in a pinch, it can come in useful when youre firing off 40 shots with a 10 man squad.

Sky choom

[noigrim]

Problem is that people that can take volkites can also take juicier stuff like plasma or melta

[Marshal Vespasian]

Then again Plasma units in the heresy can easily smoke itself without all the rerolls.

[mughi3]

Tactical support with volkite calivers <-

these I love them-my salamanders have a troop unit that is has a useful threat range that can even hurt light vehicles. Yes please.

 

That's one of the great things about 30K even basic troops are good, not a "tax" on getting the better units.

[Bung]

Tried a Heavy Support Squad with Volkites in my first Heresy Game with my Fists.

Tankhunter on that guns can be a nice extra to weather down AV 13 armour like some Dreads and Predator Tanks.

Something i encounter mostly as we are mostly on the start wth our armies.

[Marshal Vespasian]

Well if I put them on infantry I want it to be on a scoring squad, that can sit on my backfield objectives. I might be mistaken, but I think that heavy Support squads don't score do they?

A tactical Support squad can take an augury on the sarge an :cuss over deepstrikers around the home objective.

I dont want to run three tacticals that might be hitting on twos as a fist, but with bolters still not do a lot. With s6 volkite I should at least be able to annoy Power armour and maybe some cheap Transports like rhinos or even some dreads.

[STC Logisengine]

I love them.

 

I have had good results with tactical support squads with volkite, chargers and ccw's as close support/assault units and a caliver squad is a very useful for controlling a back-field objective while still adding reach and threat to infantry, light/medium armour and battle-automata.

 

Heavy support squads with culverins is a bit trickier in my experience, as the good Cadmus has pointed out above, it competes with other units for the slot and points and in my experience needs preffered enemy and/or BS5 from a MOS to really run the mile, so to speak, for the massive investment in points.

 

That said, I run a 19th legion army with primarily troops (2x tacticals 3x support w. chargers & ccws 1x support w. calivers) and it can really lay down damage. This is ofc helped by infiltrate as it allows you to place the Calivers in a position with good lines of fire from cover and the chargers up close so they are within range to lay down the Chooom! from turn 1.

[Imren]

When it comes to choosing between Calivers and Culverins (tactically, they have the same role), consider the following:

 

For simplicity, lets compare ten man squads of tactical support squad with Calivers (10x = 225p) to a heavy support squad with Culverins (10x = 335p). So the price difference is 50% more for a barebone squad but you will have 100% more damage output with Culverins since Calivers are Heavy 2 and Culverins are heavy 4 (both are S6). Also you get a range increase from 30" to 45" with the Culverin.

[Cadmus Tyro]

One option I have been trying out, admittedly with a ten man auto cannon heavy support squad, is including a fairly bare bones legion herald. The consul is now a scoring unit and gives the squad fearless, as well as a slight boost in defensive CC, but if the squad is in combat, something has gone very wrong somewhere! It also gives you access to a RoW, I usually run him with Orth as the cheap compulsory HQ.

 

I haven’t played enough games to decide whether this idea is ludicrous, but it does help if you are low on scoring units for the backfield.

 

Cadmus

[Slips]

Tried a Heavy Support Squad with Volkites in my first Heresy Game with my Fists.

Tankhunter on that guns can be a nice extra to weather down AV 13 armour like some Dreads and Predator Tanks.

Something i encounter mostly as we are mostly on the start wth our armies.

Pretty sure S6 guns cant harm Av13 due to d6 armorpen roll + S6 = 12 at max (meaning 6's to glance vs AV12) making it impossible to deal damage to AV13.

 

Tankhunter only gives you re-rolls to armor pen rolls.

 

Other than that, 10 Tank Hunting Culverins do a nice job at emergency light armor clearing.

[Bung]

Argh, we are stuck in the wrong Edition of the rules.

My opponent and me were sure that Tank Hunters gave +1 strength to Armour Penetration rolls.

Now i need to look what else we had wrong in our heads.

[okonomiyakimarine]

Ive had ok success with a 10 Man Volkite Culverin Squad shooting flyers out of the sky through sheer volume of dice.

 

Sure, youre hitting on 6s and glancing on 6s vs AV12 but, in a pinch, it can come in useful when youre firing off 40 shots with a 10 man squad.

Is there a consul that you consider running with the culverin HSS? 

 

The Armistos' has a master-crafted culverin, so he is allowed to re-roll one failed roll to hit per turn with the Culverin. With his BS he only re-rolls ones, so not a huge bonus for him. But the prototype-weapons rule renders all culverins of one HSS master-crafted. In my understanding that means re-rolling one failed to hit for each weapon in the squad. It is a rule question probably, but I am sure someone here can answer it with me having to start a new thread. For a squad of 10 that is statistically 13,33 re-rolls per turn? That would be around 8,8 additional hits so an increase of 33% hits. Not insignificant and you could get it for a relative cheap 70 points with the included augury scanner. 

 

The Siege Breaker on the other hand confers tank hunter (and wrecker), brings a nuncio-vox and is not a support officer for 20 pts more. While I consider the latter aspects situational and really depending on your build, the tank hunter makes the culverins better against lighter tanks as discussed above.

 

Why would one take the MoS? 

 

 

To answer the OP's question: worth it, because rule of cool and it could be fluffy? An all volkite IH army would be really nice to have. Consider an Infantry-heavy Company of Bitter Iron list with two squads of Immortals in the enemy deployment zone (warmonger and assault drill respectively), calivers in mid-field (with a scouting proteus and shadrak meduson) and culverins with armistos at home. You can get this for under 2000 pts. Totally not optimized, but would look awesome. Add a Glaive, if you want a big tank, but I am afraid that is impossible within 2500 pts.

 

Sadly this is not as good as it could and should be. But the IH were tricked by the alpha legion: alpharius aka meduson made the poor guys charge without them being equipped properly. iirc HSS and Immortals are not able to take additional CCW to profit from his once per game rule to confer crusader, furious charge and hatred, am I correct? Yet THAT would have been fluffy. Choom for two turns and once everyone is deployed and enemy is close enough – and if you are still alive – make the final super-angry CHAAARGE!

[Charlo]

You take the MoS because it's a better buff than the Armistos and you also get a tasty bombardment. Not to mention the MoS can also buff other units too.