Raven Guard Centurion Devastators

[ImperialTuba]

They may very well be the least stealthy looking Space Marine unit I can imagine, but here we are.

 

Have any of you used these guys in your armies with much success? I'm sure they're going to be much more useful to chapters like Imperial Fists, but I feel the need to ask.

 

Here's some background:

My most recent game was against another Raven Guard player, and I got banged up pretty good. I was using a Spearhead detachment of Imperial Guard, so he had the benefit of Combat Doctrines while I did not. His army was also all men on foot or with jumpacks. Inceptors, Intercessors, Infiltrators, Aggressors, and lots of HQs for buffs. Bottom line, I could only chip away at his guys. (Although a big reason for that was also because he managed to tie up my Leman Russ tanks right from the start so that they could never shoot. Ah, the perils of going second.)

 

Anyways, this game got me reconsidering my army builds, which tend to incorporate a handful of vehicles and dreadnoughts, the idea being that one or two is too few and will get shot off the table immediately. I only have two Dreadnoughts at the moment, hence the reason for the Guard detachment. 

 

Now I'm thinking of taking things in the opposite direction: Nothing with a lot of wounds that would be the first target to receive heavy fire. Centurions seem to almost blur the line between Infantry and Vehicle, and their cost seems incredibly high. But the high volume of fire is so tempting. No doubt they would attract a lot of fire, but maybe there's still a way to make them work?

 

Thoughts?  

[Brom MKIV]

They're one of the best units for this chapter. Either variety. 6 has the footprint of a repulsor so yea they are literally like a tank. 24w 1+ save in cover -1 to hit tank that is.

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

It's really silly that they're the best, but I've been independently recommended Centurion Devastators by a friend of mine who keeps up some with the meta and heard I was starting Raven Guard.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Transhuman physiology. My unit of 6 ate up the shooting of three riptides, with overcharged gatlings, in kayon, under 5 markerlights. Granted I only had 1 left by the end, but he failed to get them for itc purposes, had to charge to tie him up, and still couldn't finish him the next turn.

[FinalCookie]

I can personally vouch for the effectiveness of Centurion Devastators in a Raven Guard successor list, as I have one my last three games with them since the new SM codex based largely on their performance. 3 of them with Grav-Cannons with Grav-Amps and a Master of Ambush redeploy is enough to remove two or three hard targets over the course of the game at least, and I can only imagine that would go up with a larger number of them. 

 

I really feel they are a unit that has recieved a serious boost with the new codex, and something you can reliably build a list around now. Assault Centurions have been highlighted as serious contenders in Raven Guard lists since the release of the supplement, and while I think they can be very effective, I also believe that many people are going to start getting wise to that tactic. Something that needs to get a charge off to be at full power is always a little bit of a gamble, whereas shooting is like a light switch in this edition. Just turn it on, and something is going to happen, as long as you roll enough dice. And Dev Cents roll a lot of dice now.

[chapter master 454]

They really are just straight up amazing with RG because they can give them the best armour in the game: You can't hit me. I have personally been testing out taking my 12 centurions purely into Deep Strike because I want to see how well I can handle enemies until turn 2 because of not being able to assure going first and by this method, I assure 12 devastator centurions arrive and get to swing first, even if I went second. I have been running a Terminator Captain to deep strike with them (only model I have for it) that I chapter master up. I tend to try to shadowstep a lieutenant over as well but he isn't as critical as the chapter master.

 

The other benefit of coming in turn 2 is that is when tactical doctrine is live and thus the hurricanes can do far more work then. Still to test using ambush fire but so far, the results speak for themselves. A poor space wolves player went too far forward and suddenly had my 12 fat bois in the back line. Wulfen Dread, Redemptor dread, predator, some bloodclaws that were just in range and Bjorn only evaded being blasted because of being a character. He did have other stuff but it was already being handled by a TFC and other various units of mine just chipping away. To be fair, he didn't exactly roll well for some things.

[ImperialTuba]

And here I was thinking I would look silly for asking if these bulky guys would work with Space Marine ninjas. Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I may look into picking some up once they're back in stock anywhere that prices them reasonably. 

[Race Bannon]

You'd never look silly in the Ravenspire ^_^

[chapter master 454]

You'd never look silly in the Ravenspire

 

Unless you came in being happy, content and started to hang "live, laugh, love" everywhere.

[Race Bannon]

 

 

You'd never look silly in the Ravenspire

Unless you came in being happy, content and started to hang "live, laugh, love" everywhere.

 

Shshshsh! Do you want to get sued?!

[Claws and Effect]

You'd never look silly in the Ravenspire ^_^

You have to be seen to look silly. And Raven Guard are never seen.

[Archon_77]

I. love. these. guys.  Build grav/grav amp with storm bolters on them.  SFTS, Infiltrate, Master of Ambush on them depending on what they need to do and whether I go first or second. I do everything that has already been mentioned, but I also pop the Grav Strategem that grants rerolls to wound and rerolling the d3 wound for especially tough targets.  The storm bolters can put some serious hurt on screens/hordes and the Grav can be anti armor in a pinch with the aforementioned Capt, Lt, or Both.  Turn 2 they flat murder (named) Knights.  They are so good in fact I'm threatening to run an Apothecary with them, to make them even more durable. 

 

Worst case scenario is that they soak an entire turn of shooting for most armies, which is a total win while the rest of my army positions where they need to be.  Do remember that they don't have invuln saves so most AT fire will hurt them, so be sure to place them where they -1 to hit and +1 AC cover will help negate that somewhat, and the aforementioned Transhuman will be a lifesaver.  

[chapter master 454]

I. love. these. guys.  Build grav/grav amp with storm bolters on them.  SFTS, Infiltrate, Master of Ambush on them depending on what they need to do and whether I go first or second. I do everything that has already been mentioned, but I also pop the Grav Strategem that grants rerolls to wound and rerolling the d3 wound for especially tough targets.  The storm bolters can put some serious hurt on screens/hordes and the Grav can be anti armor in a pinch with the aforementioned Capt, Lt, or Both.  Turn 2 they flat murder (named) Knights.  They are so good in fact I'm threatening to run an Apothecary with them, to make them even more durable. 

 

Worst case scenario is that they soak an entire turn of shooting for most armies, which is a total win while the rest of my army positions where they need to be.  Do remember that they don't have invuln saves so most AT fire will hurt them, so be sure to place them where they -1 to hit and +1 AC cover will help negate that somewhat, and the aforementioned Transhuman will be a lifesaver.  

 

Don't bother with apothecaries. To be honest, overall I find apothecaries a trap unit. If you were to give them a support, give them an ancient. The reason apothecaries don't really work is that what you want them to do is ALWAYS revive a centurion but if there is even one with one wound lost, he will heal that instead. On top of being chance based, it also ironically makes opponents more inclined to kill them all off instead of leaving one which if they are savvy won't matter but it could help against those who don't know better. Even a lone centurion sergeant is a menace and can get work done (who would of thought a model that throws out 16 shots a turn can get work done? ;)). Ancients at the very least allow a downed centurion a chance to let loose once more with ether his hurricanes or grav but even then I don't suggest doing anything with Ancients and Apothecaries, those units when fielded in such ways tend to not feel good (really, the only time I have see apothecaries and ancients work is with veteran squads of plasma...kinda silly really. I blew up but now I get to shoot again! Nevermind, was only a flesh wound).

 

Just keep it simple and imo, StfS is straight up better. Coming in turn 2 helps because of how the enemy may get more time to bubble but at the same time, they need to maintain it and I mean...how do you bubble against shooting? You need to somehow keep all what you want safe outside of their threat range. Good luck.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Pretty sure grav amp is so good, it's just a given when talking about grav centurions

[Nusquam]

Yeah apothecaries are worse than just taking more bodies. Out of sequence attacks on a banner are great. I'm tempted to grab 6 of them myself. Sfts seems always good. Pluse the sheer volume of hurricanes with -1Ap

[chapter master 454]

Slip a Master-Craft on one of those Hurricanes and feel the might of Damage 2 hurricane boltguns. Trust me, I don't take it only because I want to see what other things can do and CP is somewhat tight around the belt (Chapter Master, I take ex tenebris and korvidari bolts and then 2 StfS uses. Tends to tank the amount I have).

 

It is a shame we can't master craft multiple times but this is an instance of the "one per army" being extremely healthy for the game along with the "Rule of X" in games. Otherwise, spam MC hurricanes on devastators...would be terrifying (especially in IF).

[Brom MKIV]

I ran two units of assault cents recently with LR marksmen. Stupidly effective unit. They honestly make grav cents seem fair maybe even over costed.

[gmaleron]

Is Grav the best way to run them? I'm debating maybe putting lascannons on a squad of 4 with Bolters. The idea of 8 Lascannon shots especially in my local Meta which is very vehicle heavy seems quite appealing to me.

[chapter master 454]

Well the main reason for grav is it is literally the same cost as the heavy bolters so each centurion is still only 70 points while twin las centurions are 100 points a go. Considering that grav-turions with full support are only minorly less effective against tanks (we are talking minor, with grav-amp strat re-rolling failed wounds when you are wounding at 5+ is just a shade better than if you were wounding on 4s without re-rolls) along with having anti-infantry duty.

 

Really, currently in the game lascannons I think struggle to keep up on anything with options other than lascannons for anti-tank. Main issue is just that lascannons cost WAY too much at 25 a go (even with the buff to twin-las being 40). Most people I think prefer the pred autocannon over Twin-las on that platform despite the lack of AP, it can still do work and flat 3 damage a go stings.

 

Again, when invulnerables saves aren't an issue they tend to get work done but the moment even a 5++ gets introduced to most tanks or the tank has 2+ armour, they start to struggle as the 5+ save is surprisingly good at keeping just enough anti-tank off them to survive past more than you would think.

[Brom MKIV]

I've played with and against the las variety with and without missile upgrades. They're pretty good. Really tough in cover with 1+ armour and -1 to hit and they have the range to sit back. I don't think you'd be disappointed with them if you went that route honestly. Considering your meta and what purpose you want them for. In an unknown I'd say grav/hrb.

 

The main issues are cost and just how much attention they attract with the las build. And it pretty polarized towards mech and similar. 

 

Also you'll find that without the missiles theres plenty of targets they won't drop in one volley unless your running a larger squad. Plus the ranges have some friction. If going las I'd consider the missile upgrades.

 

If you did run the full devastator version its worth considering an ancient and maybe even an apoth too.

[infyrana]

What are the best choices for unit sizes?  Is 3 of them even an option?  I'm peaking around to see where I can re-purpose some of my non-primaris beaky marines and dreadnoughts and these mini-naughts kinda have me curious :)