Valdor: Birth of the Imperium

[Scribe]

I think its an open question on if she knew anything about the long game (conquest of the galaxy) anyway isn't it?

[b1soul]

IIRC she had very little if any inkling of the Long Game. Not disclosing the galactic Long Game or the nature of the great foe is essentially the "Imperial Lie".

 

She was surprised when [i think] Valdor mentioned conquest of the galaxy after consolidation on Terra. She thought the Emperor's intent was merely global dominion and reimpostion of law and order on Terra.

[Scribe]

Yeah, that was absolutely the impression I got. She thought she was rebuilding earth, and the TW's were loyal and should not have been culled by what to her, was an overreaching Valdor.

 

She had no clue on the grander picture.

[b1soul]

 

Is it beyond that realm of possibility that Kandawire could develop a personal philosophy based on the pursuit of principles? Of course not. Is it likely that this would happen given the context of her story? Honestly, it strikes me as far-fetched. As a very young child, she got a very basic introduction on how things might be — before her world fell apart at the hands of cannibal marauders. Her mentor and replacement parent doesn’t come off as an idealist (quite the contrary), and the story doesn’t allude to him nonetheless encouraging that world-view.

 

I don't think your opinion is unreasonable. This isn't a perfect book by any means, though I do think it is a strong offering, especially by BL standards. 

 

I didn't have much of an impression of her mentor to be honest (but I am personally someone who has views quite different from that of my own mentor figure...after starting out with similar views), so that bit doesn't strike me as too much of a wrench in the story. 

 

Yes, her belief that Valdor was doing something without the Emperor's knowledge could be termed naive from our view, but Kandawire struck me as little more than a useful instrument, a high-ranking cog if you will (who ended up as a disillusioned ex-cog). She seemed...not privy to quite a few things (like the Emperor's end-game and, apparently, the nature of the Custodes and their bond to the Emperor).

 

She wasn't 100% sure what Valdor was playing at, so she tried to force some sort of admission or explanation from him until the last second. Valdor knew what she was up to and strung her along, using her as an instrument (again) to flush out the undesirables due for elimination. 

[Phoebus]

I don’t think Kandawire acting out of ignorance makes the story any stronger or more plausible. Beyond that, I know it sounds a little contradictory, but I actually rather enjoyed Valdor and what it proposed. I just didn’t think Kandawire was a strong premise for it.

[Kelborn]

Guys,

Can you (please) continue to use spoiler tags?

As far as I'm aware, Valdor isn't available in every country.

Yes, it's initial release is already quite a while ago. Nonetheless, I'll keep reminding you until that won't be needed anymore. ;)

 

#beinganagger

[Subtleknife]

I listened to the audio version and do have the LE too.

 

The LE version looks really nice. I am very happy with it.

 

The audio book is top notch too.

 

I thought the story was great. A bit slower than most 40k books but I really liked that.

[Enosh]

not sure if this was mentioned yet but I was wondering if those short blades the custodes carry have any kind of name and actually found something relevant to this book:

 

"The Misericordia ("blade of mercy") is a weapon usually in the form of a long dagger or short sword carried by the Legio Custodes, and later Adeptus Custodes, as a symbol of the Magisterium Lex Ultima which places them above all law except the direct authority of the Emperor of Mankind."

 

kinda funny in light of the book because it makes all the actions done by Kandawire pointless, the Custodes are literally above the law, they even get fancy swords to signify that 

[Beren]

Is it confirmed that they had them by that time period?

[Enosh]

not sure about that, lexicanum list the source as HH:Inferno, so it around during the heresy, but maybe only came into effect after the events of the book

[Sandlemad]

Yeah, Valdor even uses his one. The broader symbolism was there, that of life and death and ultimate authority, which predated the custodes.

 

I think Kandawire can be forgiven for not grasping that the Emperor was being extremely literal when he has his bodyguards bear them though, particularly when the nascent lex's significance was still being ironed out.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Sandlemad

[Umbros]

Look at it like the British Royalty - technically they have certain powers and authority but just because they could execute that power doesn't mean they can in real terms. People rationalise things all the time to suit their world view. 

 

Also, she may not have been aware of misericordia.

[b1soul]

I'm not sure whether Kandawire has reason to read that much into what appears to be a Custodian's side-arm. She doesn't have a copy of FW Inferno, so unless the dagger's significance has been explained to her by the Emperor...

[Sandlemad]

Inferno makes out that it was pretty widespread as a pan-Terran symbol of authority but that its specific custodes-intended symbolism (that the custodes were above/outside all authority but the Emperor’s) was a new development.

 

Think of it like a fasces, putting aside its 20th century symbolic associations. It’s like if you looked at a fasces and thought “fine, I’ve seen that on seals and banners and letterheads, the person with this has some vague association with the legal system” only to find out that no, the fasces-carrier has been given it to show their extremely literal power of executive authority, and also they can use it chop you in two without repercussion.

 

You weren’t wrong about everything but the situation had changed fairly fundamentally beyond the surface level, more than you could have anticipated, and the assumptions you had didn’t hold up. As with Kandawire. “You thought it was one way but it’s the other way.”

[Bobss]

I just finished this and thought it was fantastic. It is an extremely clever and self-aware book with just the right amount of foreshadowing for what is to come. People can argue about the Iron Lords, Cataegis Primarchs and pre-Primarch Legion symbols all they want, but I simply don't care.  I also applaud Chris Wraight for selecting a very interesting nexus point in the Imperium's history. He could've easily written about Valdor and the Thunder Legion flattening some baddies with the Emperor throwing thunderbolts at witches, but instead selected the post-Ararat setting for maximum thematic goodness. The worldbuilding with guys like Achilla and Ushotan is pure Unification Wars goodness, and I thought Kandawire was a solid character easily good enough to match the likes of Dan Abnett's Syndermann in Horus Rising

 

The themes of this book are what really sells it though. The illusion of the Lex, the role of soldier and state, the contemporary perspectives of the Emperor, the varying degrees of ignorance within the Imperial machine, the break-neck transformation of Terra and the blistering brave new world so many Terrans find themselves in. So damn good. Comparing this Imperium to the one around the time of Ullanor to the one in 40k is a lot of fun to think about

 

If Horus Rising teased Right Makes Might, then Valdor. is front and centre Might Makes Right 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Bobss

[Doghouse]

I recently finished this as well because it is an era that I have always been extremely interested in. I thought for the most part that it was pretty good although the use of the Astartes as someone's surname was a bit off putting for me. It's always meant Adepts of the Stars in the past which is pretty close to a latin interpretation of Space Marines to me and I was fine with that. It's worked for decades.

 

This now reads to me as the project name being originally Legions of the Stars with Legiones Astartes in their original pre-Heresy designation now being the equivalent of Legions of Smith. To me this new change feels completely unnecessary and while I do like some revelations scattered here and there this feels out of place for me. This what I find off putting about these Heresy era novels is that they feel the need to explain away every little detail or aspect, often needlessly so.

 

Astartes in my mind has now gone from a prestigious High Gothic title for a Space Marine to the equivalent of calling them Bobbies or Coppers. While others might feel differently and to be honest it's only a mild irksome aspect for me it does lessen the significance of the term to me.

 

I don't think it added anything beneficial to the lore to be honest, if it had I'd have thought oh that was interesting and moved on then I wouldn't have mentioned it but in my mind it trivialised the term for no gain other than inserting a new character into the story.

 

I really enjoyed the Thunder Warrior stuff though and on the whole thought it was an interesting read.

 

[Bobss]

This was a top-tier book in my opinion, but as others have said, it sort of demonstrates why the Unification Wars should never be explored - at least in my opinion. Because it would be book after book of pure prequel syndrome

[Matcap86]

I recently finished this as well because it is an era that I have always been extremely interested in. I thought for the most part that it was pretty good although the use of the Astartes as someone's surname was a bit off putting for me. It's always meant Adepts of the Stars in the past which is pretty close to a latin interpretation of Space Marines to me and I was fine with that. It's worked for decades.

 

This now reads to me as the project name being originally Legions of the Stars with Legiones Astartes in their original pre-Heresy designation now being the equivalent of Legions of Smith. To me this new change feels completely unnecessary and while I do like some revelations scattered here and there this feels out of place for me. This what I find off putting about these Heresy era novels is that they feel the need to explain away every little detail or aspect, often needlessly so.

 

Astartes in my mind has now gone from a prestigious High Gothic title for a Space Marine to the equivalent of calling them Bobbies or Coppers. While others might feel differently and to be honest it's only a mild irksome aspect for me it does lessen the significance of the term to me.

 

I don't think it added anything beneficial to the lore to be honest, if it had I'd have thought oh that was interesting and moved on then I wouldn't have mentioned it but in my mind it trivialised the term for no gain other than inserting a new character into the story.

 

I really enjoyed the Thunder Warrior stuff though and on the whole thought it was an interesting read.

 

 

For me it made the title deeper, because as you said it keeps the legions of the stars meaning, but Astarte is also a Phoenician goddess of war, birth and the moon (selenar), clever little nudge there.

[mc warhammer]

has it ever been confirmed by GW if "astartes" was in reference to the goddess of the same name or heavily corrupted latin?

[rookie40K]

has it ever been confirmed by GW if "astartes" was in reference to the goddess of the same name or heavily corrupted latin?

My daughter was born 6 days ago. I tried to name her Astarte by justifying it with the historical back ground. My wife wasn’t having it. We settled for the more simple name Jane.

[Scribe]

 

has it ever been confirmed by GW if "astartes" was in reference to the goddess of the same name or heavily corrupted latin?

My daughter was born 6 days ago. I tried to name her Astarte by justifying it with the historical back ground. My wife wasn’t having it. We settled for the more simple name Jane.

 

 

A valiant attempt lol.

[mc warhammer]

 

has it ever been confirmed by GW if "astartes" was in reference to the goddess of the same name or heavily corrupted latin?

My daughter was born 6 days ago. I tried to name her Astarte by justifying it with the historical back ground. My wife wasn’t having it. We settled for the more simple name Jane.

Adeptus Iohannes ain't half bad

[Knockagh]

 

has it ever been confirmed by GW if "astartes" was in reference to the goddess of the same name or heavily corrupted latin?

My daughter was born 6 days ago. I tried to name her Astarte by justifying it with the historical back ground. My wife wasn’t having it. We settled for the more simple name Jane.

Congratulations Rookie! As a father of multiple daughters I can tell it’s amazing, savour every moment

[rookie40K]

 

 

has it ever been confirmed by GW if "astartes" was in reference to the goddess of the same name or heavily corrupted latin?

My daughter was born 6 days ago. I tried to name her Astarte by justifying it with the historical back ground. My wife wasn’t having it. We settled for the more simple name Jane.

Congratulations Rookie! As a father of multiple daughters I can tell it’s amazing, savour every moment

Thanks! My 11 year old wants nothing to do with Warhammer. I have faith that at least one of my 3 other kids will be interested. Maybe one of them will get to enjoy a pre imperium Thunder Warriors box set in their lifetime! Birth of Imperium really sparked that interest in me. Plus Two Metaphysical Blades has a fantastic tale with Valdor in it.