My new "competitive" list

[Ishagu]

Hey all.

The upcoming release of the Ultramarines contemptor has spurned me on to create a new list that incorporates it. The list I'm building will be used in up-coming tournaments, and I plan on making use of as many of the unique Ultramarines hooks as possible (Namely the characters and units that benefit from the CT and doctrine).

Typically I run two Repulsors as well as another variable unit as my dedicated anti-tank + transport, but I'll be giving Contemptors a try as my dedicated tank hunters. So far I've run a single Dual Las Contemptor and it has performed well, and the Invul and durability boosting strats have been very helpful.

Here's the list:

 

Ultramarines Battalion, 2k points, 11 Command Points

HQ:
-Chief Librarian Tigurius
-Chaplain Cassius, Catechism of Fire, Recitation of Focus

Troops:
-10 Intercessors
-10 Intercessors
-5 Infiltrators
-5 Infiltrators

Elites:
-3 Aggressors, Flamestorm Gauntlets
-Relic Contemptor Dreadnought, 2x Twin Lascannons, Cyclone Missile Launcher

Heavy Support:
-Repulsor Executioner, Heavy Laser Destroyer, Icarus Rocket Pod, Ironhail Heavy Stubber
-Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought, 2x Twin Lascannons, Cyclone Missile Launcher

Lord of War:
-Roboute Guilliman

 

I intend to use Tiggy as a defensive Psyker with his excellent deny ability, as well as increasing the durability of units with his -1 to hit rule. He'll also generate additional CP to keep fuelling the army.

The Aggessors deploy inside the Repulsor, and will also act as a defensive unit. They can pop out when things start to get close. The whole army is mobile, and intend to push it into midfield in games where it's advantageous to do so.

The Ultras are the chapter that allows units to leave combat and still shoot, and I thought the rule was a bit wasted on the various flying tanks that Primaris have access to. It feels more worthwhile with the two Contemptors. I asked the forum a while back if the Cyclone is worth it, and got a mixed response. I can safely say that upon trying it in battle it is indeed worthwhile, despite being a bit over-costed as a weapon option. In my opinion it should cost 30 points, not 38 (It's an inferior twin lascannon with less str, ap and range). That being said, it's still 2 additional shots of D6 damage at Str8, and on a chassis with a 2+ BS it's significant additional damage on many targets.

Guilliman is again, a defensive aura character. Is he worthwhile now? Probably not, but I want to make him work. He definitely doesn't work as well in a list with two Repulsors, as you've spent over 1000 points on 3 models at that point. Despite the high cost, he is still a powerful character, and importantly he doesn't require CP or relic/warlord trait investment to be potent in close combat.

Lastly, I would like the forum's opinion on the following: Should I drop Cassius for a generic Primaris Chaplain? If I bring the generic character I can unlock the CP regenerating warlord trait, as well as the Seal of Oath Relic, or the fancy Crozius if I so choose. The extra points would also allow for a few weapon upgrades on the Intercessors. Thoughts?

Edited November 2, 2019 by Ishagu

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I like your new list.

 

The decision regarding the Chaplain is hard as both have merits. I’ve been using Cassius and the duel Litanies are really good but maybe not as useful to you since not as much infantry units.

[Aothaine]

Looks like a really mean list. Love it! :D Something I am a little confused about is the flamestorm Aggressors. Are they flamestorm due to points? Wouldn't it just be better to rock the bolter variant? 

[Ishagu]

Looks like a really mean list. Love it! :D Something I am a little confused about is the flamestorm Aggressors. Are they flamestorm due to points? Wouldn't it just be better to rock the bolter variant?

The list can put out over 100 Bolter shots a turn, and the flamers offer something else. They are a deterrent to charging units and can put the hurt on flyers thanks to the auto hits. Also they don't require auras to be accurate.

[Prot]

I have been thinking about the list for a while, and didn’t want to respond right away.

 

- Regarding the Flamestorm Gauntlets I tend to agree. In a list full of Intercessors I do find especially once our Tacticak Doctrine kicks in. I do still prefer the Boltstorm overall but these flame guys are probably better coming out of a vehicle in this type of list.

 

- I have a bunch of lists I’ve been trying but still haven’t got my latest Guilliman in one. The first thing I did was pull the Repulsor and grabbed two Impulsors and some Helblasters. I like the idea of having a front facing force and then a bunch of mobility in a Guilliman. “Shield” coming to close the gap and push forward. Aside from the Impulsors I’ve gone with mostly infantry to extend board control. But who knows if this will work. Previously I only played Guilliman in dual Repulsor lists.

 

- I would keep the special character chaplain. I use a generic chaplain all the time and don’t even use the relic which does sound good. But in my case I skip the extra litany just to save points.

 

- I do think that as much as you like the Contemptor I wouldn’t personally invest in the extra launcher. I would try to find points for a Thunderfire cannon. They’re just so incredibly useful in any game but absolutely vital when you don’t have deepstriking.

 

I like the list though. I’m trying to keep the Invictus Guard in my lists to keep largely footblund characters alive longer. My meta is full of character hunting, and I think with all the marines out it’s going to be more prevalent.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Prot

[Ishagu]

The character protection is a real necessity. I recently played against RG and a unit of Stalker bolters dropped close by with Shrike, targeting my Calgar and killing him outright in a single shooting phase by dealing 5 mortal wounds on top of 4 regular!

 

I can include two Victrix Guard by dropping Tiggy and taking a cheaper HQ, like a Techmarine, that still has viable uses. I'm looking forward to the next Psychic Awakening book as it apparently has upgrade options for HQs like Techmarines that might make them more worthwhile.

 

As for a Thunderfire Cannon, you're probably right. Indirect fire is important, as is the utility of slowing down enemy movement...

I can fit one in just by changing the HQs. I still don't know if Tiggy is worth it when you really crunch the points. He is reliable at casting and a good opportunity at denying, but the powers are lackluster. His -1 to hit ability is no longer quite as useful now that re rolling all hits is more common too.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Ishagu

[Prot]

The problem is our HQ's are so good. It's easy to end up management heavy in our lists. :)

 

As an aside I watched an Imp Fists batrep where in Turn 1 (maybe turn 2?) the Imp Fists player used his Stalker Bolter team and shot Cawl dead. If you know how hard it is to kill Cawl from regular shooting like that... well I was blown away. Everyone knows Mars based AdMech is centered on Cawl most of the time. That's a one kill / game over scenario. I just saw that and thought.. .yea, I'm not letting that happen to Guilliman/Calgar if I can help it.

 

I have a bad habit of relying on my Apothecary a lot. I heal my Guard up as they take hits for my HQ. But that leaves my lists in a bad place where I have too much middle/upper management in my lists. 

 

I always have a bit of odd admiration for those types of players that take 3 models x 3 each, and minimal 'extras' and have a strong, solid list. I'm always tweaking, quite often to my own detriment. I think your list has a good mix of HQ's. It's super hard to pull Tigurius. But again I come from a place of not playing without him for eons. I always used him before he got better, so now he feels like the most automatic thing in every list I build.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Tiggy is possibly the best psyker in the game and the rerollable double deny with +1 is hard to pass up. Just a couple crucial denials could be game winning too. Smite plus Scourge can do some work. Edited November 4, 2019 by Black Blow Fly

[Aothaine]

Yeah Tigurius is most likely the one auto-include in my future lists if I end up going with Ultramarines instead of a successor. He is really good. 

 

Though I would drop Cassius over Tigurius. Dropping Cassius lets you grab a Primaris Chaplain and then you can build him into the Bash Chaplain build that is just a complete power-house in melee. I honestly think this would be a better idea if you wanted to focus on competitive play. The more carnifexes you have the better. Threat saturation. :D

[Cruor Vault]

Tiggy is possibly the best psyker in the game and the rerollable double deny with +1 is hard to pass up. Just a couple crucial denials could be game winning too. Smite plus Scourge can do some work.

 

FYI:  Tiggy's Psychic checks are re-rollable, but his Deny The Witch rolls can't be re-rolled.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Yeah Tigurius is most likely the one auto-include in my future lists if I end up going with Ultramarines instead of a successor. He is really good. 

 

Though I would drop Cassius over Tigurius. Dropping Cassius lets you grab a Primaris Chaplain and then you can build him into the Bash Chaplain build that is just a complete power-house in melee. I honestly think this would be a better idea if you wanted to focus on competitive play. The more carnifexes you have the better. Threat saturation. :D

Check out our Chapter Champion you can build him as a total beat stick.

[Aothaine]

 

Check out our Chapter Champion you can build him as a total beat stick.

 

I heard you talking about this in your thread as well but I was not able to find the exact build. What is the build if you don't mind me asking. Also, is it better than the Bash Chaplain build? Can you do both?

Edited November 5, 2019 by Aothaine

[Ishagu]

On the topic of Tiggy, I did take him to a small RTT recently and I'm not sure of just how helpful he really is.

He did help in some games of course, but I can take Cassius and a Techmarine for the same cost as him, which frees up enough points for a squad of Victrix Guard + good Intercessor upgrades, or if I'm being extra shrews a Tfire cannon.

 

I think Guilliman might be the reason for the difficulty in including all these units, but I am keen to run him in games again....

 

As for the Chaplain v Chapter Champion, I think the Chaplain is overall better as he can ultimately deal lots of damage, comes with an in-built invul and the litanies.

 

The Chapter Champion is a good duelist however, and is cheap for his output.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Chapter Champion:

 

Burning Blade

Imperium Sword

Hero of the Chapter

 

He always fights first versus enemy characters and rerolls hits and wounds versus them plus they are -1 to hit him (e.g., no DttFE). He can get up to S8 is always AP5 and get up to 7-8 attacks.

[Prot]

On the topic of Tiggy, I did take him to a small RTT recently and I'm not sure of just how helpful he really is.

He did help in some games of course, but I can take Cassius and a Techmarine for the same cost as him, which frees up enough points for a squad of Victrix Guard + good Intercessor upgrades, or if I'm being extra shrews a Tfire cannon.

 

I think Guilliman might be the reason for the difficulty in including all these units, but I am keen to run him in games again....

 

As for the Chaplain v Chapter Champion, I think the Chaplain is overall better as he can ultimately deal lots of damage, comes with an in-built invul and the litanies.

 

The Chapter Champion is a good duelist however, and is cheap for his output.

 

I think you're right. I know as I try to bring Guilliman into my lists the truth is it's very hard to include anything but minimalist HQ's.

 

I was thinking that Guilliman is probably still maximized with the Heavy Repulsors. I've looked at other things like flyers, and speeders,etc and I am trying new things because I think Iron Hands kind of own the Repulsor market right now.

[Ishagu]

Guys, here is an update. Both Contemptors are now ready for battle, and I think they look great together. Like many other models the visual impact is magnified when they are taken in multiples.

 

 

Courage and Honour!

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Ishagu

[NKirkham24]

Nice job on the Dreadnoughts.

 

Is the left one a conversion from the plastic GW model or is it FW? I’m not too familiar with all the different Contemptors they sell.

[Ishagu]

Both are Forgeworld. Far superior to the plastic kit in the case of the Contemptors.

[Aothaine]

Guys, here is an update. Both Contemptors are now ready for battle, and I think they look great together. Like many other models the visual impact is magnified when they are taken in multiples.

 

 

Courage and Honour!

 

 

That gold.... nnnnnnnnngh! They look great Ishagu! Can't wait for some batreps when you get the force all done! :D

[Joukernaut]

I really like the dynamic pose of the left one. I have to agree that they look great in pairs. wonderful job Ishagu.

[Ishagu]

The force is all finished now, but sadly I won't have many games until the new year. I'm getting hitched and travelling abroad at the end of November, and then Christmas is coming around the corner. At least I don't have anything on my painting table to worry about :-)

 

I have one game planned in December and will write up a report then.

 

This is the latest draft of the list:

 

Ultramarines Battalion, 2k points, 10 Command Points

 

HQ:

-Chaplain Cassius, Catechism of Fire, Recitation of Focus

-Techmarine, Master of the Forge, Power Axe, Boltgun, The Endurant Protector

 

Troops:

-10 Intercessors, Power Fist, Grenade Launcher

-10 Intercessors, Power Fist, Grenade Launcher

-5 Infiltrators

-5 Infiltrators

 

Elites:

-3 Aggressors, Flamestorm Gauntlets

-2 Victrix Guard

-Relic Contemptor Dreadnought, 2x Twin Lascannons, Cyclone Missile Launcher

 

Heavy Support:

-Repulsor Executioner, Heavy Laser Destroyer, Icarus Rocket Pod, Ironhail Heavy Stubber

-Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought, 2x Twin Lascannons, Cyclone Missile Launcher

 

Lord of War:

-Roboute Guilliman

 

 

I have played a few games in recent weeks and the Victrix Guard are very, very useful - People tend to target characters quite a lot now.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Ishagu

[Frater Cornelius]

What's the logic behind Bobby G? Personal preference or do you think the list works better with him as opposed to Calgar + Lt? Also, do you think omitting Tiggy is that good of an idea? Given how utterly fixated people are on killing things like Executioners, you'd think the -1 and potential T9 would be something that helps the matter.

[Ishagu]

I think the Master of the Forge will probably make the Repulsor and 2 Dreads more durable over the course of an entire game, and I can spend a further CP to grant him the +1 BS aura to vehicles.

 

As for Guilliman - Is he the optimum choice in a list? Probably not, but there will be games where the CC ability is very valuable. He's great at keeping Knights away - A self sufficient counter-charge character that fulfils the role of a CM and Lt, and one that is more difficult to assassinate.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Ishagu

[Aothaine]

Congrats on getting hitched! Before that all goes down can we get a pic of the entire force? :D Also, safe journey to you!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Ishagu got caught by a shard net wyche and he loves it.