Unit and Cult Creed advice request

[Sawtooth]

I'm planning to run at least two detachments with Twisted Helix and Bladed Cog. Possibly a third with Rusted Claw if I have room (I may not :P ). I have some ideas for units I want to run and I'd like opinions on which Creed to put them with.

1. Flamer Acolytes: I'm planning a subterranean unit of 20 with hand flamers, which seems to be one of the classic choices these days. As usual the plan is ideally to use Lying in Wait and possibly A Perfect Ambush to have them show up and burn all the things. Since these guys will probably get stuck in melee I figured Twisted Helix, but I've seen a few Bladed Cog lists with them and wondered if the invulnerable save was worth the tradeoff.

2. Kelermorph and Shotgun Neophytes: My idea was to pop a big unit of 20 Neophytes with shotguns and a Kelermorph from underground together. I'll probably give the Neophytes webbers because I love those things. I imagine again this unit getting stuck in close combat after the initial salvo which makes Helix attractive, though the invulnerable save and heavy weapon bonus of Bladed Cog also make them attractive (not sure what would work best, I was thinking a Seismic Cannon might pair best with the shotguns).

3. Atalan Jackals: I've seen the Rusted Claw demo charge drive by tactic, which looks fun. If I don't have room for another detachment, do you think shotgun/pistol + knife Helix Jackals are a good deal? Are mining laser quads worth it in either Creed or is the flamer the way to go?

4. Brood Brothers: Not a Creed question, but do you think units of 10 are enough bodies? Mostly they're in to help bulk out detachments. Any special or heavy weapons you think are worth it? I was planning on taking several mortars but I'm not sure if they're better here or in their own units in the heavy slot.

Any advice appreciated, I'm still in the 'this looks good on paper but I have no idea if it will work' phase of things while I'm slowly putting together my army. Just looking for advice and input :)

[Exilyth]

1. If you want to charge with stronger acolytes go <twisted helix> and if you want to stay around and fire again or stay in meelee longer use <bladed cog>.

That aside, this is one of theese meta depending decisions: whether the +1S from <twisted helix> is enough that it pushes the acolytes into wounding their intended targets easier or the <bladed cog> gives them the resilience boost needed to weather the counterattack from e.g. power weapons (or initial attacks from units which fight first). Also, depending on whether or not a unit is going to get perfect ambush can influence whether the +1" to charge from <twisted helix> is useful for them.

 

The 'banner of the cult ascendant' relic for the iconward can give nearby acolytes another +1S buff btw, which could be used in addition or instead of <twisted helix>.

 

 

2. If you can guarantee bringing them down within slightly less than 6" to benefit from the +1S of shotguns and in combination with the kelermorph, that would be 40 S4 shots to the face fired with pseudo-BS3+ like space marines. I'll write that down, definately something I want to try out once I've got enough shotgun neophytes.

 

Webbers are more of a fluffy choice currently with not many targets they're useful against, but at 1 point each, they're cheap and on the ambush the low range doesn't matter as much.

 

Neophytes with mining lasers (and sometimes grenade launchers) are a staple of many GSC lists and would benefit from <bladed cog> a lot.

 

 

3. Atalan Jackals benefit from <rusted claw>, even when not using the demo bomb.

Outside of <rusted claw>, they can still be a cheap mobile unit with 2 wounds per model.

Shotguns, knives and grenade launcher is a very common loadout for jackals not carrying demo kits.

Dual pistols is another interesting loadout but more of a fluffy choice.

 

On the quad, the flamer is the most useful outside of rusted claw due to ignoring the movement penalty - the short range is relatively easy to offset using mobility.

Leaving the quad at home and bringing another unit of jackals would also be an option.

 

 

4. Brood brothers would be best as Astra Militarum <brood brother> units in their own detachment (AM infantry has access to plasma guns, better leman russ variants and other stuff).

One of their problems is that brood brothers do not benefit from cult creeds (they have no <cult> tag). If you bring them in GSC, it's imho best to use them barebones or using weapons GSC lack, e.g. lascannons would be nice for long ranged antitank, but are costly and a weapon with more shots would be better to offset the low BS. Mortars f.e. are great for being cheap, having a high shot count, a long range and not requiring LoS. (Mortars are also meta currently.)

 

Heavy bolters against hordes and autocannons against light vehicles (& elite infantry) woud be other heavy weapon choices. Missile launchers are a middle ground: okayish vs. both infantry and vehicles, but worse than lascannons at AT or heavy bolters at AI. Heavy weapons have one disadvantage though: Moving them incurs a to hit penalty which makes squads with heavy weapons play more statically.

Special weapons: well, this is rather quick - flamers with their autohits can deter charges, grenade launchers are the 'long' range option and webbers are the fluffy, conditional choice.

 

 

As for where to put mortars - it depends on army compositon & local meta, e.g. if you don't have heavy support slots left over, that's not an option. Usually, mortars are used as heavy support to fill out detachments, e.g. a brigade. They can also be used to cheaply bring in more characters, e.g. via a spearhead detachment of 3x3 mortars + cheap/choice HQ (e.g. as <C4AE> for access to our 'vect' strat).

 

Detachment filler and shenanigans aside, heavy support mortars are relatively cheap units. There are two ways to look at infantry squads: either the mortar is a cheap weapon upgrade for them, or the squads are a cheap ablative wound upgrade for the mortar. 2x 3 mortars + 3 infantry squads would be similar in points to 5 infantry squads w/mortar, but the latter would only contain 5 mortars. Then again, if your opponent uses many LoS ignoring weapons, putting mortars into infantry squads would help keep them alive longer.

 

 

 

If you could post a rough outline for your army (or an army list), we may be able to give more specific advice.

[Sawtooth]

Thank you, Exilyth. I admit I don't have an army list yet, just some ideas for units I was brainstorming.