The inevitable Black Rage in Primaris.

[Frater Antodeniel]

 

I would love just adding a rule like 3e that included random numbers of death company. Those were the good old days

 

I'm all for more flavourful rules even if it means them being less competetive. 40k is badly lacking such imo.

 

 

I vaguely remember something akin with the Red Thirst working on a D6 before battle in 5th edition.

[Blindhamster]

 

 

I would love just adding a rule like 3e that included random numbers of death company. Those were the good old days

 

I'm all for more flavourful rules even if it means them being less competetive. 40k is badly lacking such imo.

 

 

I vaguely remember something akin with the Red Thirst working on a D6 before battle in 5th edition.

 

 

3e was:

You rolled for each unit, depending on the roll it was possible that 1 or more models from the unit fell to the black rage, if they did they joined the death company squad, if you had a sergeant from the unit fall, you got a death company model with a power weapon. If you took a chaplain, you got 3+d3 additional death company for free.

 

Red thirst in 3e granted furious charge (we were THE army to have it originally) and you rolled for each unit each turn, cant remembe if it was just a d6 or a leadership test, but on a failure you weren't allowed to shoot and had to move toward the nearest enemies/charge.

 

5e:

Did indeed have a rule where models got furious charge and fearless on a roll of 1 (or maybe 6). You rolled for all units before the game.

[toaae]

In the White Dwarf codex of 4th edition, each unit you took gave you a Death Company member, and you could take additional (up to 10). They weren't "free", however, as each unit cost BA more than their SM equivalents as a sort of DC tax (IIRC, you did get a free one from Terminator units, but our tactical squads were 20 points more expensive than SM tacts.)

The BA community pushed to have non-mandatory DC. This was a celebrated part of the 5th edition codex.

[Djangomatic82]

I'll float an idea here,tangentially connected to the Primaris DC idea,  hopefully it'll kill a few birds with one stone.

Instead of making entire new kits for Primaris DC, I'd prefer if they took a rules approach.

First, give one additional wound and attack to each non Primaris Infantry (ie:Death Company), Biker, Terminator and Dread( with less than 9 wounds), then remove the Primaris keyword from all of our rules and datasheets.

Second, in order to explain this in the lore, say that the Sanguinary Priests and Tech Adepts that Cawl left on Baal have managed to add the new primaris organs, sans sinew coils, to our existing insangiunation process, thereby making the new primaris no longer an actual physically seperate entity from BA, but just a tactical deployment role.

With all the ink dedicated in our books, from Fear to Tread to Devastation of Baal, reinforcing the idea that chapters with the blood of Sanguinius share a deep sense of unity, wouldnt it be fitting if we, The Blood Angels, are the first to fully assimilate the Primaris into our ranks, thereby making the distinction moot. There are just Brothers in the Blood.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Djangomatic82

[Panzer]

I'll float an idea here,tangentially connected to the Primaris DC idea,  hopefully it'll kill a few birds with one stone.

Instead of making entire new kits for Primaris DC, I'd prefer if they took a rules approach.

First, give one additional wound and attack to each non Primaris Infantry (ie:Death Company), Biker, Terminator and Dread( with less than 9 wounds), then remove the Primaris keyword from all of our rules and datasheets.

Second, in order to explain this in the lore, say that the Sanguinary Priests and Tech Adepts that Cawl left on Baal have managed to add the new primaris organs, sans sinew coils, to our existing insangiunation process, thereby making the new primaris no longer an actual physically seperate entity from BA, but just a tactical deployment role.

With all the ink dedicated in our books, from Fear to Tread to Devastation of Baal, reinforcing the idea that chapters with the blood of Sanguinius share a deep sense of unity, wouldnt it be fitting if we, The Blood Angels, are the first to fully assimilate the Primaris into our ranks, thereby making the distinction moot. There are just Brothers in the Blood.

That's so far from what GW is likely to do and their logic I don't even know where to begin.

Let's begin at the fact that there's literally no way they are going back on Primaris for a multitude of reasons and follow that with the fact that the separation between regular Marines and Primaris is only partly due the fluff and partly because they simply WANT them to be separated, otherwise we could embark Primaris in older vehicles and vice versa.

 

We have fully assimilated the Primaris into our ranks already. This doesn't require anything to change. Primaris are Marines with their own unit types they use to fulfill the same old battlefield roles of Battleline, Close Support and Ranged Support. The distinction is only a meta one.

[Spyros]

I swear... if we get DC intercessord instead of veteran ones... I'm going to be frustrated :/ I need veterans damnit!

 

I 'd love to see true primaris veteran models, not just veteran intercessors. And to lighten the mood, if precursor astartes use tactical dreadnought armour, will primaris astartes use strategic dreadnought armour? 

[redshadow]

Primaris black rage

2cp while mustering you’re army pick one infantry unit it gains +1 attack and 5+ feel no pain and must advance and attempt to charge every turn. ( Reivers Come to mind)

 

Darkness in the blood

1cp Any unit With primaris black rage stratagem can fight twice in the fight phase

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

I still think that the 3rd ed BA rules captured best spirit of the chapter. For long time GW had not been very keen of randomness in units rules, but in the 8th, with  d6s all around, dice-drawn DC could fit. But it's not gonna happen.

[Frater Antodeniel]

In regard of the Black Rage, i think that given the choice players would like the random but instead would choose the stability of known and certain rules.

 

Yet it is still possible to include "random" aspect, but for this i think that there is a need for a counterpart.

 

On my opinion, following the Lore, it would make sense that those units afflicted by the Black Rage would have rules such as :

"Immune to Moral, but forced to charge the nearest target available whenever it is possible."

[Panzer]

Being forced to charge is and was always a horrible rule. The rules should encourage to charge, not force. If they were forced to charge the only thing it would add is that they'd eat a lot of unnecessary overwatch once they are within 12" of an enemy unit even though the charge was extremely unlikely to happen anyway.

If you absolutely want such a rule add a range restriction "when within x inch of an enemy unit" or focus on the nearest enemy part when they actually charge "when this unit wants to declare a charge it has to declare a charge against the nearest enemy".

[Blindhamster]

Being forced to charge is and was always a horrible rule. The rules should encourage to charge, not force. If they were forced to charge the only thing it would add is that they'd eat a lot of unnecessary overwatch once they are within 12" of an enemy unit even though the charge was extremely unlikely to happen anyway.

If you absolutely want such a rule add a range restriction "when within x inch of an enemy unit" or focus on the nearest enemy part when they actually charge "when this unit wants to declare a charge it has to declare a charge against the nearest enemy".

 

or forced to charge but either get to do so with 3d6 or get to reroll either or both dice?

[Ciler]

On a fluff perspective, I must say I am somewhat glad that BA primaris would suffer the Black Rage. In that way, they are not the Mary Sues some (including myself) feared they might be. Also means Cawls has failed to truly improve on the Emperor's designed -- sure he's made them bigger and meaner and has improved the process so that the flaws do not crop up so fast, but the flaws are still there. .

[Klod]

On a fluff perspective, I must say I am somewhat glad that BA primaris would suffer the Black Rage. In that way, they are not the Mary Sues some (including myself) feared they might be. Also means Cawls has failed to truly improve on the Emperor's designed -- sure he's made them bigger and meaner and has improved the process so that the flaws do not crop up so fast, but the flaws are still there. .

Black Rage is not a flaw. It is a psychic backlash caused by the atrocity that was Sanguinius' death.

Red Thirst is.

But I get what you mean and agree with it.