Intercessors vs Infiltrators vs Incursors vs Scouts for BA?

[Wassa]

What make the best troop choice for BA?

 

I want to like the Incursors due to their combat bonus, but the Infiltrators just seem better with the shooting bonus?

 

Intercessors are good all round troops, tempted to go with the Auto Bolt Rifle (Assault 3), rather than the Bolt Rifle though.

 

 

Are scouts still ok or are they too flimsy nowadays?

[Xenith]

What do you want to do with them?

 

Many builds use small units of each. 5 stalker intercessors for objectives, autorifle dudes for mocing forwards. Infiltrators will disrupt opposing deepstrike builds.

 

Is your army pushing forwards quickly with lots of jump packs? Do you want all your troops in the midfield to start with?

Edited November 13, 2019 by Xenith

[Panzer]

They all have their strengths and weaknesses. There's no universal best choice fortunately.

[Karhedron]

I agree with the above opinions, there is no single "best" unit.

 

I like regular or possible SBR Intercessors for regular deployment.

 

Scouts get the most melee attacks per point to make the best Red Thirst, they are also the cheapest unit. For this reason I feel they work best aggressively. Use them to clear chaff screens for our heavy units, harass enemy support units or act as an impromptu bodyguard for Captain Smash and/or a Libby Dread if they power up the field.

 

Incursors and Infiltrators are much tougher than Scouts so work well to deploy on midfield objectives. Infiltrators can seriously mess enemies that use Deep Strike a lot but these builds are relatively few. They also cost 3ppm more than Incursors to get these situational bonuses.

 

Incursors look the better of the two Phobos options to me. They are cheaper, just as durable and have some slight bonuses to their shooting. I would normally take Incursors over Infiltrators unless I knew I was facing specific opponents like Daemons, GSC or Orks.

[Majkhel]

Good old Tacticals with a heavy wepon can also pull their weight. Even if they are there only for a single lascanon/missile shot a turn while sitting on a far objective. All depends on the task you want your troops to perform.

[Aothaine]

Good old Tacticals with a heavy wepon can also pull their weight. Even if they are there only for a single lascanon/missile shot a turn while sitting on a far objective. All depends on the task you want your troops to perform.

 

You're forgetting their best heavy weapon option. The Heavy Flamer! Why do Blood Angels have access to a Heavy Flamer in their tactical squad? I'm so confused. I like it. But I'm confused. 

[Spagunk]

 

Good old Tacticals with a heavy wepon can also pull their weight. Even if they are there only for a single lascanon/missile shot a turn while sitting on a far objective. All depends on the task you want your troops to perform.

 

You're forgetting their best heavy weapon option. The Heavy Flamer! Why do Blood Angels have access to a Heavy Flamer in their tactical squad? I'm so confused. I like it. But I'm confused. 

 

It's a design decision that was attempting to mirror/pay homage to the Horus Heresy BA. The HH book mentions that BA favored "Shock and Awe" style tactics which means melta and flamer weapons, even if they weren't more skilled with them like Salamanders were. As such, it seems they rolled heavy flamers in to BA tacs as both a unique option and to support the "forward momentum" / shock and awe aspect. Guessing this is also why you can do heavy flamers on devastators too, in addition to consolidating heavy weapons into one wargear list. But if it wasn't intended, they could have easily put the same * next to it that excluded unit types so it seems 100% by designed.

This is an assumption but given that we got a chapter trait that is pretty much the same as the HH legion rule make it seem that this was the direct that made BA more unique than just Red Marines.

 

My 2 cents.

[Blindhamster]

It's actually just that the designers made it and when the models went to the army painters it was pointed out as not a legit option so the rules got updated

[Spagunk]

It's actually just that the designers made it and when the models went to the army painters it was pointed out as not a legit option so the rules got updated

I think, in this case, it was more homage. HH Book 6 which had the legion trait was copywritten in 2015 which means that Alan (R.I.P.) had heresy BA penned either similar or at the same time as the new BA sprues were being designed. I think this because the writing process for black books have a longer cycle than model designs which would have been 2014 when released (2013 was the print date on sprue).

 

I would argue that this was an example of the opposite of how GW does things and may have been "We want to make cool BA models, what can we do? Oh, HH fluff says flamer weapons, let's do that!" since there was no historical reference to heavy flamer use prior to the 2014 6th edition revamp.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Spagunk

[Blindhamster]

No, I mean, that's literally what happened

[Spagunk]

No, I mean, that's literally what happened

 

How do we know that?

[Blindhamster]

 

No, I mean, that's literally what happened

 

How do we know that?

 

 

I have had a friend that was there at the time lol. Was a funny story back at the time

[tedzilla]

I've been pondering this question a lot recently.  I really want to get two squads of Incursors in my lists.  I like to think that they are awesome.  I think my default will be squads of 2 intercessors, 2 scouts, and 2 incursors.  That sits at 470 points before any upgrades.  I really want to like the haywire mine but I'm not quite sure it is worth it since you can only place 1 per turn.

I like the infiltrators too, but if you go 2 incursor, 2 infiltrator, and two intercessor, you are looking at 580 points before any war gear upgrades.  That can really eat into your points for other more murderous units.  Of course with 6 troop choices, you are probably going to need at least 4 HQ units.

I don't know the best combo.  It will depend on what you want to do and what else you want to bring. 

[Karhedron]

I don't know the best combo.  It will depend on what you want to do and what else you want to bring.

This is generally true. Going Primaris + Scouts means you have no heavy weapons on your Troop units so you will need to make up the shortfall elsewhere. Not a problem, just something to bear in mind.

 

For me, the problem choosing between Incursors and Infiltrators is that Infiltrators are significantly more expensive than Incursors but their benefits only come into play versus a subset or armies that rely on entering play from Reserves to be effective. I would rather they were the same price but with different strengths. Instead, Infiltrators pay 15% extra for a bonus that is crippling against certain armies but irrelevant versus others.

[Neuralshock]

I think 2x squads of 5 incursors with the mine will make for good push units or objective defenders. Sat up in cover and with 2d3 MW mines in front makes for a hard charge target. Pair them with the warsuit and you'll have a good early game objective bully. popping smoke before a charge will make shooting them off next turn require a bit more effort.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Neuralshock

[Majkhel]

Just remember that you can only place one mine per turn (per army).

[Neuralshock]

Where do you see that rule? looking at the datasheet there's no restriction on how many at one time. Just that they can't be placed closer than 6 inches from each other and more that 3 inches away from enemy models.

[Majkhel]

The rule says: "In your Movement phase, one model from your army with a haywire mine that has not been primed can prime it. At any point during that model’s move, place one Primed Haywire Mine within 1" of it, more than 3" away from any enemy models and more than 6" away from any other Primed Haywire Mines. "

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/warhammer_40000_space_marines_summer_update_en.pdf

 

Pretty clear: in the movement phase (one such phase during a turn), one model from your army (no matter how many squads you've got).

Edited November 15, 2019 by Majkhel

[Neuralshock]

I don't think the intention was for only one mine to be placed, I think it's if you have a model with an unprimed mine they can do so. Worth an FAQ email though

Edited November 15, 2019 by Neuralshock

[Xenith]

I don't think the intention was for only one mine to be placed, I think it's if you have a model with an unprimed mine they can do so. Worth an FAQ email though

 

In this case the rules are extremely clear. "One model". Not "a model", not "any model".

 

Either way, RAW >>> RAI. 

 

GW seem on the ball with updates, so if Mines are underperforming, they'll be fixed. 

[Karhedron]

I agree, the intention seems pretty clear to prevent spamming 6D3 MWs on Turn 1.