Competitive Black Templars -- PA2

[Kontakt]

I feel since we only have half the info or less on our new rules, we might be in store for some good tools to help us get into cc. It's really too early to tell, as we haven't seen everything.

[tvih]

Lastly if the tank is destroyed the unit inside isn't destroyed if surrounded. 

Isn't it? Not sure where I put my rulebook, but isn't it still necessary to be able to place the unit within disembark range and yet far enough from the enemy when the transport dies? And if you can't, passengers die? If not that, how - place the unit as near as possible without being too close to enemies?

[Acebaur]

 

Lastly if the tank is destroyed the unit inside isn't destroyed if surrounded. 

Isn't it? Not sure where I put my rulebook, but isn't it still necessary to be able to place the unit within disembark range and yet far enough from the enemy when the transport dies? And if you can't, passengers die? If not that, how - place the unit as near as possible without being too close to enemies?

 

 

 

You disembark normally when the vehicle is destroyed, which is place your models anywhere within 3" of the transport and not within 1" of an enemy. If they can't do this then that model is destroyed. So it's certainly possible they could all die, but it's not an blanket rule that they do

[SirJyo]

Just wanted to point out that deep strikes are higher than 56%. 56 was when we had flat re-rolls. Now we can chose to reroll one or both dice, the chances of making a 9" is closer to 68%. A little over 2/3s

 

My math isn't sellar so take me with a grain of salt but it is as follows:

 

28% one time roll to get 9 or better.

72% fail.

Within any roll, 50% of the time one die includes a 4 or better. At this point you would only want to re-rolls the lower die.

 

Keeping a 4 and re-rolling a lower performing die gives you a 33% chance of rolling a 5 or 6 to add up to 9-10

 

All together .72(fail) * .5(getting a4+) * .33(of lower die being re-rolled into5+)

(.72*.5*.33)=11.8 add that to the flat 56% and it's about 68

 

Or I'm wrong. Any mathematicians in the house?

[MindEraser]

I'm convinced that we have not seen even the half of the cake in relation to our best rules.

 

About our doctrine, for example, a drop pod full of vets with dual chainsword, falling in 3th turn prevents any damage to a powerful unit till wait to explode our super doctrine and give a better chance to that charge if we have a chaplain with that +2 to charge in previous turn. Or even terminators with lighting claws, or vanguard with power swords...

 

And that warlord trait, I'm thinking since I saw it for first time in a phobos Captain with galathamor relicary. Then you get an antipsyker in the enemy's mouth since first turn. Smooth

[Hymnblade]

Just wanted to point out that deep strikes are higher than 56%. 56 was when we had flat re-rolls. Now we can chose to reroll one or both dice, the chances of making a 9" is closer to 68%. A little over 2/3s

 

My math isn't sellar so take me with a grain of salt but it is as follows:

 

28% one time roll to get 9 or better.

72% fail.

Within any roll, 50% of the time one die includes a 4 or better. At this point you would only want to re-rolls the lower die.

 

Keeping a 4 and re-rolling a lower performing die gives you a 33% chance of rolling a 5 or 6 to add up to 9-10

 

All together .72(fail) * .5(getting a4+) * .33(of lower die being re-rolled into5+)

(.72*.5*.33)=11.8 add that to the flat 56% and it's about 68

 

Or I'm wrong. Any mathematicians in the house?

It's 48% with flat rerolls. Your calculation assumes that failing the roll and getting at least one 4 are independent, but they shouldn't be. On the other hand, there's a 75% chance of getting at least one 4+ on 2d6, not 50%.

 

The most straightforward way to calculate this, I think, is to just break it into cases.

 

Case 1: You succeed on the first roll. (10/36)

 

Case 2: You fail the charge, and your best roll is a 6. This means you rolled 6+1, 6+2, 2+6, or 1+6, so this happens 4/36 times. By rerolling the lower die, you succeed on the reroll 2/3 of the time. That's a (4/36)*(2/3)=2/27 chance of succeeding via this case.

 

Case 3: You fail the charge, and your best roll is a 5. This means you rolled 5+1, 5+2, 5+3, 3+5, 2+5, or 1+5, so this happens 6/36 times. By rerolling the lower die, you succeed on the reroll 1/2 of the time. That's (6/36)*(1/2)=1/12.

 

Case 4: You fail the charge, and your best roll is a 4. This means you rolled 4+1, 4+2, 4+3, 4+4, 3+4, 2+4, or 1+4, so this happens 7/36 times. By rerolling the lower die, you succeed on the reroll 1/3 of the time. That's (7/36)*(1/3)=7/108.

 

Case 5: Your best roll is 3 or below. This means you rolled a 1+1, 1+2, 1+3, 2+1, 2+2, 2+3, 3+1, 3+2, or 3+3, so this happens 9/36 times. You should reroll both dice, which will succeed 10/36 times. That's (9/36)*(10/36)=5/72.

 

Adding these up, you've got a 41/72=56.9% chance of making the charge with "either or both" rerolls.

 

If you have a Chaplain nearby with Canticle of Hate, it goes up to 84.9%, which is actually kind of reliable.

[Marshal Vespasian]

I feel like canticle of hate on a jumping chaplain is a must take almost.

Either you can have a pretty reliable alpha strike, binding enemy units in cc that would rather shoot or you can have reliable counter assault later down the line.

Making him a Master of sancticity would give him multiple uses. I enjoy deepstriking company Veterans with Power fists, so those guys actually venefit from the original chaplain litany of rerolling all misses in cc.

So the incredibly rambling point I am trying to make is: we should propably get a Master of sancticity and give him canticle of hate and a second buff litany since He can cast two of them a turn anyways.

Spinning this thought further: He should also not have any wl trait or Relic. There should also be marshal law and a psychic denying wl. At least three distinct characters that are either beatsticks or force multipliers to divide character killing potential around between multiple key hqs. Add into that the emperors champ who also cant really be ignored and our herohammer is even stronger than before.

[Medjugorje]

I feel like canticle of hate on a jumping chaplain is a must take almost.

Either you can have a pretty reliable alpha strike, binding enemy units in cc that would rather shoot or you can have reliable counter assault later down the line.

Making him a Master of sancticity would give him multiple uses. I enjoy deepstriking company Veterans with Power fists, so those guys actually venefit from the original chaplain litany of rerolling all misses in cc.

So the incredibly rambling point I am trying to make is: we should propably get a Master of sancticity and give him canticle of hate and a second buff litany since He can cast two of them a turn anyways.

Spinning this thought further: He should also not have any wl trait or Relic. There should also be marshal law and a psychic denying wl. At least three distinct characters that are either beatsticks or force multipliers to divide character killing potential around between multiple key hqs. Add into that the emperors champ who also cant really be ignored and our herohammer is even stronger than before.

 

Maybe its not allowed to take 2 lithanies from different table. Would be meh but "canticle of hate" is a must take

 

[Marshal Laeroth]

 

I feel like canticle of hate on a jumping chaplain is a must take almost.

Either you can have a pretty reliable alpha strike, binding enemy units in cc that would rather shoot or you can have reliable counter assault later down the line.

Making him a Master of sancticity would give him multiple uses. I enjoy deepstriking company Veterans with Power fists, so those guys actually venefit from the original chaplain litany of rerolling all misses in cc.

So the incredibly rambling point I am trying to make is: we should propably get a Master of sancticity and give him canticle of hate and a second buff litany since He can cast two of them a turn anyways.

Spinning this thought further: He should also not have any wl trait or Relic. There should also be marshal law and a psychic denying wl. At least three distinct characters that are either beatsticks or force multipliers to divide character killing potential around between multiple key hqs. Add into that the emperors champ who also cant really be ignored and our herohammer is even stronger than before.

 

Maybe its not allowed to take 2 lithanies from different table. Would be meh but "canticle of hate" is a must take

 

 

 

Yes, I agree.  If we are following the train of thought of:  Throw as many units into your opponents face as possible army list building, I think you really need to consider taking 2 Chaplains in your list.  Especially if they restrict our selection of litanies to one table.

[Marshal Vespasian]

Even then there is still the +1 to wound litany for example. Making axes wound meqs on a 2 or something similar. I just think the guy should be making sure our valuable company vets arrive in combat and dont stand some where on the board with their paints around the ankles. Having him casting two auras from turn one onwards (reroll misses and +2 to charge) should make a charge on deepstrikers from turn 2 onwards pretty reliable as well as full reroll to miss. When charging from deepstrike isnt needed anymore He can switch to +1 to wound as a buff Power for example.

[Medjugorje]

the +1 to wound lithany is just for Shooting.

[AlmightyWalrus]

Bike Chaplain with Litany of +2" charge distance can scoot 20" up and provide his aura on turn 1. Combine with Pods and infiltrators and you can reliably charge stuff T1.

[Punchomatic]

Bike Chaplain with Litany of +2" charge distance can scoot 20" up and provide his aura on turn 1. Combine with Pods and infiltrators and you can reliably charge stuff T1.

Is it just him on a bike? How does that work? It’s been a while since I played and I’m trying to get back into it but some things y’all talk about are hard to follow.

[AlmightyWalrus]

 

Bike Chaplain with Litany of +2" charge distance can scoot 20" up and provide his aura on turn 1. Combine with Pods and infiltrators and you can reliably charge stuff T1.

Is it just him on a bike? How does that work? It’s been a while since I played and I’m trying to get back into it but some things y’all talk about are hard to follow.

 

 

Yeah, Chaplain on Bike is an option in Index: Imperium 1, he's got a higher M value than the Jump Chaplain, better T, gets a twin bolter, and always runs 6". Plus, if you give him the Bolter Relic from the main Codex he always fires 4 shots at 30" with it since he's got the <BIKE> keyword.

[Marshal Vespasian]

Whelp good that I forgot about how I thought that litany worked all game läßt weekend then.

 

The other one is basicly grimaldus aura as a litany if I see it correctly.

Well lets hope we can combine litanies then.

 

Also: good that I'm buying some old minis off a guy at my Club and am getting a biker Chaplain with that

Edited November 14, 2019 by Marshal Vespasian

[Shamansky]

What do you think of Chaplain Venerable Dreadnought? He's got built-in 5++, 6+++ and reroll 1 to hit in melee(if armed with 2 Dreadnought CW), gives +1 Str to all <CHAPTER> models in combat with the same enemy as himself, he's CHARACTER with 9 wounds, he can recite lithanies and be a warlord/hero of the chapter. I think it's a good support to build a Black tide detachment around or put him into a drop pod, or to make hime a 'distraction carnifex'. And dread-stratagems from codex can be used on him too. Not too expensive for what he can bring, only 168 pts with plasma cannon.  How is it bad, except mobility?

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

The Dread Chaplain is a fairly regular part of my lists, and depending on what we get in this book he might get even better. Running him with assault cannon and bolter lets him contribute a little anti-hoard on the approach, while his regular melee abilities allow him to punch just about anything to death. If I want him purely for anti charge, or am dropping him out of a Stormraven, i tend to take the inferno flamer and heavy flamer.

 

If we get a bunch of crunchy new litanies and the strat allows us to upgrade him with the fancy pray twice ability, I imagine he'll become an auto take for me. At least for more competitive games.

[MarshalMittermeier]

The Dread Chaplain is a fairly regular part of my lists, and depending on what we get in this book he might get even better. Running him with assault cannon and bolter lets him contribute a little anti-hoard on the approach, while his regular melee abilities allow him to punch just about anything to death. If I want him purely for anti charge, or am dropping him out of a Stormraven, i tend to take the inferno flamer and heavy flamer.

 

If we get a bunch of crunchy new litanies and the strat allows us to upgrade him with the fancy pray twice ability, I imagine he'll become an auto take for me. At least for more competitive games.

@Valkenhayn: does your nickname have anything to do with the german general of ww1?

[Acebaur]

The Dread Chaplain is a fairly regular part of my lists, and depending on what we get in this book he might get even better. Running him with assault cannon and bolter lets him contribute a little anti-hoard on the approach, while his regular melee abilities allow him to punch just about anything to death. If I want him purely for anti charge, or am dropping him out of a Stormraven, i tend to take the inferno flamer and heavy flamer.

 

If we get a bunch of crunchy new litanies and the strat allows us to upgrade him with the fancy pray twice ability, I imagine he'll become an auto take for me. At least for more competitive games.

 

He does not have the CHAPLAIN Keyword so unfortunately he can't be upgrade to MoS. Which is too bad because that would be a nasty combo. Still they are absolutely worth taking and I think giving them something like a Lascannon is a better choice. They can't be picked out and they have that sweet 2+ BS

[Marshal Arthur]

Yeah, I use the chaplain dread with twin lascannon to buff my back row shooting units and counter charge enemy deep strikers.

[Ciler]

DOes the chaplain dread have the suitable keyword to benefit from litanies though ? Or has their been a FW errata to incude them ?

[Marshal Vespasian]

DOes the chaplain dread have the suitable keyword to benefit from litanies though ? Or has their been a FW errata to incude them ?

 

Hes been erratad to have them. But apparently doesnt have the keyword to become a master of sancticity

[Ado]

I love my Chappy Dread - with lascannons. I plan to walk him up the board with a unit of grav centurions to give them the litanies buff. At the very least these would be a distraction carnifex and could keep CC killy units in LRC alive a bit longer. But can also pump out some decent shooting.

[Medjugorje]

4++ Relic on a Phobos Marshal and 60 Scouts and 3 Invictor Suits in front of the enemy^^

 

There are a few lists which can be tested I think so far.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

4++ Relic on a Phobos Marshal and 60 Scouts and 3 Invictor Suits in front of the enemy^^

 

There are a few lists which can be tested I think so far.

Weren't you the one saying the other day that Phobos Armour wasn't very Templar...? (30 scouts!)