Competitive Black Templars -- PA2

[Jacques Corbin]

What about a Gravis Marshal, with new Relic Sword, an upgraded Apothecary, and a full squad of Aggressors running up the board? Might be fun.

 

An Impulsor with 4++ carrying Hellblasters and a Marshal seems to be strong as well. Would also be good for getting Reivers and a Chaplain into position.

[Medjugorje]

no other list plays hellblaster except Raven Guard. Why should we take them? But your Idea with Aggressors seems fine.  advance + shoot and attack and +2" (because of WL-Trait) and Grimaldus gives them +1 attack and 5++

[Acebaur]

A question about Vicious Reposte. It says 'whenever rolls 1'. Does it mean that it counts even if the 1 is later re-rolled, as it was rolled at some point in the process?

 

No, because the same would apply for overcharged plasma. The first roll does not count. So if you reroll a save for some reason, and get a 6 on the second time, it goes off

[SydonianDragoon404]

Yeah even in an impulsor hellblasters can be kind of expensive for what they do.

[Medjugorje]

what do you think about 3 Repulsor Executioners with Lieutenant (4++ Relic), Helbrecht an Grimaldus for +1 to hit and +1 to wound lithany?

[Palmu]

A question about Vicious Reposte. It says 'whenever rolls 1'. Does it mean that it counts even if the 1 is later re-rolled, as it was rolled at some point in the process?

Riposte activates on unmodified rolls of 6 to Save, so I'm not sure what you're referring to here. But these rules always activate after the rolls are finalized, so if you get any save re-rolls from somewhere, the result of the re-roll should work as well. 

[Palmu]

Doubleposting on myself, but the new Inquisitors look VERY attractive to add into our lists, seeing as we're going to be VERY CP-hungry, going forward. For a single model with a 55p cost, you can get no less than THREE different methods of regaining CP - The Ordo Xenos Warlord trait, the Seize for Interrogation Stratagem and the Mental Interrogation psychic power.

 

The only downside here is that you have to grab a Witch to do this. Well, two out of three isn't bad either, really. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

what do you think about 3 Repulsor Executioners with Lieutenant (4++ Relic), Helbrecht an Grimaldus for +1 to hit and +1 to wound lithany?

Even better with the IF +1 damage!!

 

(Laughs in cheese)

[Medjugorje]

and with Cenobites still viable against MW-Spam of siege-breaker cohort

[Smirnov]

So, for the moment we have access to rules in four different books:

 

- Vigilus Defiant - Sword Brethren Detachment

- Space Marine Codex - bulk of the rules

- Imperial Fists Supplement - as IF successors (until we get patched out, but we should keep special issue wargear at the very least)

- Faith and Fury - special rules

 

Between our chapter tactics, litanies and Vigilus Stratagems, we suddenly have an insane amount of (pseudo)FNP rolls. I'm a bit confused as to how they interact with each other when worded as if they are different efects, they probably shouldn't at all, but hey, it's GW.

 

Grimaldus is a beast now (andd a special side note, he _is_ master of sanctity, so the talk about GW 'dumbing BT down' with 'high chaplian' is moot), costs pennies on the dollar . Emperor's Champion is pretty decent as well. Helbrecht has his merits as force multiplier, but is a bit meh as a combatant.

 

The main issue I see so far is movement. GW kinda pushes us into black tide or LRC style, but this edition everyone is mad about jump packs. LRC is expensive for what it does and footslogging has its obvious downfalls. But we have dealbreakers here. Or three. First is re-rolling charge distance, second is WT that gives +1 to advance and charge and stratagem that allows us to advance and charge.

 

What bothers me that Crusaders Helm works at the start of movement phase, so we can't use it out of deep strike. Same with Litanies, so, at least, there's some consistency here

[Malekor]

About the crusaders helm, I think I can live without using the combat doctrine buff 1st turn in exchange of 9" bubble of +1 charge for alpha strike purposes

[Smirnov]

Don't get me wrong, the helm is fantastic. 1 unit is constantly in Assault doctrine, what's more to wish for?

I'm undecided which character I want ot put it on. Chaplains are tempting

[Malekor]

I gonna try some 1st turn company vets drop pod assault so my choice will be a foot smash captain

[Mordian Glory]

Ok so crazy thought, but what about Scout Bikers?

They have the scout keyword so we can use the new strat on them to give them wound rerolls right?

 

Use the space marine skilled riders strat to give them a 4+ invulnerable or 3+ if they advance.

 

They come with combat knifes, 2 wounds and the sgt can take a power weapon.

 

Could be a fantastic second unit send up to support a vanguard veteran bomb :)

[Medjugorje]

Don't get me wrong, the helm is fantastic. 1 unit is constantly in Assault doctrine, what's more to wish for?

I'm undecided which character I want ot put it on. Chaplains are tempting

The only thing I always think off: the other relic give us a "more likely" chance to get our lithany.

[Marshal Vespasian]

 

 

Don't get me wrong, the helm is fantastic. 1 unit is constantly in Assault doctrine, what's more to wish for?

I'm undecided which character I want ot put it on. Chaplains are tempting

The only thing I always think off: the other relic give us a "more likely" chance to get our lithany.

I see it like this:

Grimaldus is the one you will propably send with units in a Transport, which will propably habe chainswords and benefit the most from ap-1.

 

A jumping/bike Chaplain is propably the one you send out to greet your deepstrikers, so

A) you REALLY want that litany to go off

B) your deepstrikers will most likely be some flavour of veterans/terminators and not benefit as much from an additional ap - 1 since they come with Power swords / fists / axes that are High ap anyways.

[Medjugorje]

like I said:

 

the first  option for units is a better buff (because of Assault docrin)

the other option is to "cast" more likely.

 

But if you have enough CPs I think the crusader helmet is better.

[Palmu]

My problem with a Helm-bearer is like this:

 

I have 5 characters I might want in a cc list:

Helbrecht

Grimaldus

Marshall Law

Canticle Chaplain (Breviary)

Character to taste (Helm)

 

One should be dropped, and that's either Grimaldus or the Helm-bearer. These guys become useful from turn 2 onwards, essentially. They might have uses on the first turn, like a helm-bearing chaplain with the Aura increase litany, and Grimaldus with exploding 6's and DTW.

 

And the question is which one is more useful from turn 2 onwards? Helm, or Grimaldus and his 2 litanies? I've yet to really decide, but I'm leaning towards Grimmy.

[SirJyo]

The imperial fists errata says nothing about Templars using their rules.

 

Guess it's here to stay until faith and fury's errata comes out.

[Acebaur]

My problem with a Helm-bearer is like this:

 

I have 5 characters I might want in a cc list:

Helbrecht

Grimaldus

Marshall Law

Canticle Chaplain (Breviary)

Character to taste (Helm)

 

One should be dropped, and that's either Grimaldus or the Helm-bearer. These guys become useful from turn 2 onwards, essentially. They might have uses on the first turn, like a helm-bearing chaplain with the Aura increase litany, and Grimaldus with exploding 6's and DTW.

 

And the question is which one is more useful from turn 2 onwards? Helm, or Grimaldus and his 2 litanies? I've yet to really decide, but I'm leaning towards Grimmy.

 

Don't forget that Chaplain Ven Dreads are a thing and can serve double duty as a chaplain and a durable platform to put a twin lascannon on. They can't take a relic, but they can take Litanies. 

[Medjugorje]

The imperial fists errata says nothing about Templars using their rules.

 

Guess it's here to stay until faith and fury's errata comes out.

yes. Thats true so far. I have an tournament on first of December and me was told that I should not use power creep because that should be a starter-tournament... its difficult not to take the new rules.

[Jacques Corbin]

 

 

My problem with a Helm-bearer is like this:

 

I have 5 characters I might want in a cc list:

Helbrecht

Grimaldus

Marshall Law

Canticle Chaplain (Breviary)

Character to taste (Helm)

 

One should be dropped, and that's either Grimaldus or the Helm-bearer. These guys become useful from turn 2 onwards, essentially. They might have uses on the first turn, like a helm-bearing chaplain with the Aura increase litany, and Grimaldus with exploding 6's and DTW.

 

And the question is which one is more useful from turn 2 onwards? Helm, or Grimaldus and his 2 litanies? I've yet to really decide, but I'm leaning towards Grimmy.

Don't forget that Chaplain Ven Dreads are a thing and can serve double duty as a chaplain and a durable platform to put a twin lascannon on. They can't take a relic, but they can take Litanies.

What litanies would you suggest? A Chaplain Dreadnought preaching the +2 to charge while escorting a trio of Ironclad Dreadnoughts up the board would be terrifying, especially if there is an upgraded Techmarine with them.

[Acebaur]

 

 

My problem with a Helm-bearer is like this:

 

I have 5 characters I might want in a cc list:

Helbrecht

Grimaldus

Marshall Law

Canticle Chaplain (Breviary)

Character to taste (Helm)

 

One should be dropped, and that's either Grimaldus or the Helm-bearer. These guys become useful from turn 2 onwards, essentially. They might have uses on the first turn, like a helm-bearing chaplain with the Aura increase litany, and Grimaldus with exploding 6's and DTW.

 

And the question is which one is more useful from turn 2 onwards? Helm, or Grimaldus and his 2 litanies? I've yet to really decide, but I'm leaning towards Grimmy.

Don't forget that Chaplain Ven Dreads are a thing and can serve double duty as a chaplain and a durable platform to put a twin lascannon on. They can't take a relic, but they can take Litanies.

What litanies would you suggest? A Chaplain Dreadnought preaching the +2 to charge while escorting a trio of Ironclad Dreadnoughts up the board would be terrifying, especially if there is an upgraded Techmarine with them.

 

 

Well I think the Canticle is best on a faster chaplain. If the dread is walking then probably the Divine Protection (5+ FNP) to give extra durability. 

[Palmu]

I must specify that any chaplain in a CC list would be on a bike, as their job is to swooce that 20" to go yell at the first wave of deepstrikers, a range that the chappy dread can't quite cover.

[Ciler]

So Warhammer community did a BT "Tactica" : https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/19/black-templars-tactica-crusading-101gw-homepage-post-1/?fbclid=IwAR3SM2TI137EZNnKByVjLHwvB1WLfwIJ1m2dFGJRSnxTRJu80JI6XlKd1n0

 

It is unfortunate that they goofed up and suggested a combo that doesn't actually obey the rules : they suggest pumping up the power of a unit coming out of a LRC by using a litany, except you can't because the unit is in the transport (and off the table) at the beginning of the round...

 

Also on the facebook post someone asked if there was a Templar upgrade sprue in the works and the answer is a relatively resounding "no", you are advised to use the existing upgrade sprue and forgeworld templar stuff.