Competitive Black Templars -- PA2

[Punchomatic]

 

 

 

 

So you suggest we go a mix of infiltrators and drop pods? What about long range support? Or just get in their face as soon as possible with everything?

That was more "we could do this and it could actually work" than "this is a great idea and we should do it" sort of thing. There's a lot of ways that can go wrong, and while overloading one phase of the game is usually a good idea, just putting all your eggs in one basket really isn't.

 

Spamming scouts and just going balls to the walls isn't actually a great idea unless you can be mostly assured that you likely get the first turn, otherwise it's a lot of possible waste. A single 10-strong unit certainly seems worth it, though. Either it can be pushed up the opponents nozzle on turn one to either kill things or tie them down, or it can be hidden somewhere without feeling like it's useless.

 

Though putting half your army into deepstrike really isn't a bad idea.

What's great with our rules is that we have so many options now on the direction of our lists. We can pull of mech, footslogging, deep strike, concealed positions...all effective ways to get into combat, where we now are reasonably effective. Hell, even our basic scouts do well with our new stratagem. While I don't necessarily think you need to long range firepower in a list, you DO have to have a way to deal with multiple types of threats in a list (i.e. vehicles, fliers, monsters, etc).

 

One of the newest archetypes I've been playing with since the release of Codex: SM v8.5 is what I call "Peak-A-Boo!" Templars. And it utilizes that 50/50 list building formula. Half of my list is Concealed Positions, the other is Deep Striking. This has allowed me to completely control the deployment portion of the game. Opponents deploy cautiously due to my deep strike capabilities, but they also do not deploy nearly as aggressive due to the sheer number of concealed position units I will be setting up after they deploy. It essentially allows me to react to their deployment anyway I choose. It has worked exceedingly well so far...but again, as with many envelop pushing archetypes the BT can use...some of our brethren don't like it due to its "sneak" factor.

I assume you’re working on an update to the peek-a-boo list? I love the idea. Seems like it needs more Chaplains and perhaps a dedicated scout unit or two now, no?

[Ciler]

So GW has started a poll on Faith and Fury : Furious zeal (us) vs zealous fury (Word Bearers) https://www.facebook.com/Warhammer-40000-1575682476085719/?__tn__=kC-R&eid=ARAvCWS6xvuj2VSLJgcE9cFeFdunPgD6Ugby85UEPwDUcmLvCkk313p1pAqvDi2ZDDiWBlRaf5HS6IjR&hc_ref=ARSrgnCYrL9KwjEqiyRmpTKT4dCdcsiLXNs-EOMpP0Sg8LTGtz4nKGe9v8Lg1IfRDrU&__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARCI8TaRfpf_iYaA7aXWuWFcBiVbVLLBdvHn19C0Vtw7-aa4e2HwpW8eW9EVCMSMHleW5nT2F4FwPzH_Smb8uAp9OG49wmkbHNKwNvSh6ez1rtXWsbFpOWFZsL_fXZ6kXuLGL-_5mpqPzvR-PvxlKIBPhnt5aYnHwj9IoW-sAx6U_2B1D5dtec3ejH1rJ3smM-Pant9rIget2FyByFin0D_xEKaRGNHZ82gAnRjUnT3VNn3P3yuGNYP42XpddD17n27Ubj86Qq1Tiv7rPZKan67sbbg9C69J4Enu5A_9xM1IHVxXRC0Ncqlcb9Ol2gzGr4r2VrFkxpVIupLy3arFBveMrowdnoDZdn_OXWpPxZl5WjvaO3Pbuz-tBktYo8SXvlU

 

You know what to do...

[Kyliadan]

Ah, It's still stuck in infinite loading apparently

[redmapa]

So much zeal I think it broke facebook! Well done brothers another victorious crusade in our glorious history!

[SydonianDragoon404]

Back to tactics, I wonder if taking the shield generator on the Impulsor is still worth it since giving it a 4+ isnt difficult for the purposes of surviving a turn 1 alpha strike. Edited November 22, 2019 by SydonianDragoon404

[Palmu]

No, I doubt it's worth the character tax unless you can invest a good amount of points to the synergy, or can make good use of the Phobos Captain in other ways.

 

That guy isn't a bad model, but it sure isn't a CC beast.

[Acebaur]

So I were to run a squad of incursors and scouts for some first turn charges, should I go with 5 or 10 man size? I'll probably be deepstriking in Helbrecht and a bunch of Templars as well as have a Phobos Marshal on the ground with the Crusader Helm

[Ciler]

I'd go 10, for fear of them getting wiped next turn and giving first blood.

[Palmu]

I'd go with 10 for scouts and 5 for Incursors. 10 scouts is inexpensive, 10 incursors is not. Or at least too much of a risk for a MAYBE 1st-turn alpha.

 

Only one unit can advance+charge anyway.

[Link2edition]

Are land raider crusaders worth it with the new book? My mathammer says they are just too expensive to double up on, and I don't know if 1 would make it across the board.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Wait on the rumoured points drops in MFM?

[Jacques Corbin]

I'd go with 10 for scouts and 5 for Incursors. 10 scouts is inexpensive, 10 incursors is not. Or at least too much of a risk for a MAYBE 1st-turn alpha.

 

Only one unit can advance+charge anyway.

Also consider the overwatch you will be encountering. Ten for Scouts is fine, because as the wise Marshal said, they are cheap. Incursors are better in MSU squads of 5, and plenty of them. That, or just throw Reivers in an Impulsor, have it move up, then disembark them, and throw one of their overwatch-cancelling grenades.

[Acebaur]

Are land raider crusaders worth it with the new book? My mathammer says they are just too expensive to double up on, and I don't know if 1 would make it across the board.

 

 

I think so, but you probably need to prepare to protect them with things like the 4++ relic and the FNP litany to ensure they hit their target

 

 

 

I'd go with 10 for scouts and 5 for Incursors. 10 scouts is inexpensive, 10 incursors is not. Or at least too much of a risk for a MAYBE 1st-turn alpha.

 

Only one unit can advance+charge anyway.

Also consider the overwatch you will be encountering. Ten for Scouts is fine, because as the wise Marshal said, they are cheap. Incursors are better in MSU squads of 5, and plenty of them. That, or just throw Reivers in an Impulsor, have it move up, then disembark them, and throw one of their overwatch-cancelling grenades.

 

 

Well I have neither Reivers nor an impulsor, but I do have 10 incursors. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Acebaur

[Link2edition]

Wait on the rumoured points drops in MFM?

I haven't heard any rumors. I am trying to figure out how to best fit faith and fury to my collection.

[Acebaur]

This thread is about competitive BT tactics and how to best use the tools we have, not BA. If you want to discuss BA I suggest you go to the BA forum.

[Medjugorje]

why nobody talk about Assault Terminators.

 

With IF-Supp we can have a 2++ and +1 A, 5+++; run and charge. can use our 2CP Stratagem to stay in melee. stay in reserve and arrive table at turn2 on a objective marker or 9" away and clean it^^. Next round get +2 charge after advancing and 5+++ lithany.

Then there are more good stratagems to use.

 

Even without IF Supp we can start to put them in LRC again. After they drop out we have "transhuman physiology" and if we want to stay on turn one on the table we could use the LRC as LOS-blocker.

[Palmu]

Just walking the darn things across the table is probably a better idea. Take 10 and Grimaldus, maybe someone with our advance bonus WT, run across the table with ++5 on.

 

Though I think a Crusader Squad can do that better and be just as big of a distraction for the opponent.

[Link2edition]

I've been running LRC in pairs since 5th edition, and in 8th it just wasn't getting me the results I wanted due to the point sink.

Are ya'll talking about running one LRC or two?

[Acebaur]

I've been running LRC in pairs since 5th edition, and in 8th it just wasn't getting me the results I wanted due to the point sink.

 

Are ya'll talking about running one LRC or two?

 

I'd run 2, unless you have something that will draw equal or more target priority, like a Spartan, Leviathan dread, storm raven/eagle etc. 

[Link2edition]

 

I've been running LRC in pairs since 5th edition, and in 8th it just wasn't getting me the results I wanted due to the point sink.

 

Are ya'll talking about running one LRC or two?

 

I'd run 2, unless you have something that will draw equal or more target priority, like a Spartan, Leviathan dread, storm raven/eagle etc. 

 

But 2 plus cargo is going to be around 1000 points, I just don't know if they will put in 1000 points of work.

[Palmu]

They probably won't, LRC's continue being too expensive for what they do. And one is obviously a mistake unless you have other targets for the opponents anti-tank choices, since overloading into a single category seems to be the theme of this edition.

[Link2edition]

Here is my attempt at making the new book work with my drop pod list: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360161-black-templar-alphastrike-pods-pa2-edition/

Please tear it apart.

It looks to me like we really want to run large units, so I am going to try starting a few big ones on the board and podding in the rest. Its possible that Brigade will end up being sub-optimal for what I want to do.

[tvih]

They probably won't, LRC's continue being too expensive for what they do. And one is obviously a mistake unless you have other targets for the opponents anti-tank choices, since overloading into a single category seems to be the theme of this edition.

If your strategy doesn't rely on the LRC's contents it can work as a distraction Carnifex, though. Like if you indeed want the opponent to shoot it instead of your other vehicles.

 

I'm likely running a LRC on Saturday, although as Crimson Fists... we shall see if/how quickly it blows up.

[Ciler]

That's an expensive distraction. Though actually the real problem of the LRC isn't so much if it'll get blown up, but whether your oponent is smart enough to tarpit it, which in amny ways is even worse.

[Marshal Vespasian]

A Levi Dread is a better distraction carnifex I feel. Similar points and you will get one or even two rounds of Solid shooting out of him, that does some work.

Dump a few cps and hell be extra tanky or you can use him as a replacement captain. Or both.

And good luck trying to tarpit that thing.

 

Addendum: I've been thinking about msu fire Support squads some more, as I want some amount of lascannons in my army that isnt mounted to (expensive) chassis. Currently I am contemlating wether I want to drop points for those squads down some more, by putting storm bolters on the sergeants. 4 additional Bolter shots while standig still will be pretty nice I feel and free up some more points for heavier guns or maybe a small assault squad or something like that.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Marshal Vespasian