Competitive Black Templars -- PA2

[Medjugorje]

 

There was a guy in the "b&c rumor section" who said that Crusaders stay by 13 and 11 points... But it does not mean he is correct.

 

He is, I can confirm it. 

 

Why do you know this? Do you saw something? Or do you just belive him?

[Acebaur]

 

 

There was a guy in the "b&c rumor section" who said that Crusaders stay by 13 and 11 points... But it does not mean he is correct.

 

He is, I can confirm it. 

 

Why do you know this? Do you saw something? Or do you just belive him?

 

 

I have a source

[Lysere]

 

Something else we need to start looking into again is VV. They have great movement of 12 inches. With our new strat we can advance and charge with them. You can have them run around with a MoS chaplain giving them 5+ FNP and SS for extra durability in case they get stuck out in the open. They have multiple deployment options as well. You can start them in a LRC with the chaplain outside and then you can disembark on turn 1 giving them 3+ extra inches of movement, move, advance (possibly with +1), and charge with up to +2 depending on your list. You can then use the LRC strat on them so they don't take overwatch. I think there is a lot of potential for these guys considering their access to gear. 

I've been thinking the same thing. I haven't tested it yet but a jump pack vet squad in a LRC supported by a jump chaplain can cross most of the board on turn one. Support them with a drop pod assault of Helbrecth, Emperor's Champion, company vets, and cenobytes alongside a bunch of scouts and you have good odds of launching a mass charge on turn one.

 

Edit: From the sounds of it crusader squads won't get a point drop which is upsetting, however, they may prove useful as a second wave. Mass drop pod assault supports by concealed deployment units on turn one to trap your opponent in his/her deployment zone and kill key threats while large crusader squads push up the board with Grimaldus. Hopefully, your initial attack will reduce the enemy strength enough to make those large crusader squads difficult targets, especially when buffed by Grimaldus.

 

 

My current 2k list I'm toying with is double LRCs with one packing three assault centurions and the other six vanguard vets. Since most of my games involve fighting over the middle of the table it's basically vanguard for the turn one or two combat, assault centurions aiming for turn 2 or 3 depending on the target. The challenge is that combined it all eats a lot of points and between the number of characters I have and the minimum troops I'm very tight on points to change much.

 

Been fun so far though.

 

For Characters I have: Helbrecht, Grimaldus, the EC, Jump Lieutenant with MC Bolter, Jump Chaplain, Biker Captain, and for now a company ancient. Also have the cenobytes.

 

Three squads of scouts, Three squads of Tacticals with Heavies. Combination of extra dakka, screen, and table presence.

[Schlitzaf]

So....to promote something insane.

 

Having more Neo’s then Init in Crusader Squads like 8-9 Neos and 7-6 Inits instead of rhe reverse

[Acebaur]

So....to promote something insane.

 

Having more Neo’s then Init in Crusader Squads like 8-9 Neos and 7-6 Inits instead of rhe reverse

 

why though?

[Schlitzaf]

Inits are overpriced. And we want to be as efficient with points as possible.

[Acebaur]

Inits are overpriced. And we want to be as efficient with points as possible.

 

yeah I guess. Technically if you take an even number of them you are paying exactly the same as other units

[Ciler]

Though you trade a lesser armor save for rerolls of 1s on the neos, right ?

[Medjugorje]

Funny note: initate vs neophyte.... Winner are the scouts. With the Stratagem to reroll wounds and Helbrecht + 5 Company Veterans we can reroll all hits and all wounds. 

[Schlitzaf]

Any case our points remain the same in chapter approved nothing else got the nerfbat?

[Sword Brother Adelard]

 

 

 

 

There was a guy in the "b&c rumor section" who said that Crusaders stay by 13 and 11 points... But it does not mean he is correct.

He is, I can confirm it.

Why do you know this? Do you saw something? Or do you just belive him?

Winters' review just zoomed in on the Templar pages. No changes.

[Schlitzaf]

So EChampion and Ceno’s dodge the bat. EChampion stayed reasonable, Cenos avoided going to 5ppm like similar chassis units. Helbrecht and Grim stayed same offcially despite greats buff

[Acebaur]

Helbrecht needs a point drop IMO. He is still worth it and a good value, but just a little too expensive. 135 would probably be perfect for him. 

[Medjugorje]

its so a shame that cruasadersquad is more expensive then any other marine... thats rediculous

[Acebaur]

its so a shame that cruasadersquad is more expensive then any other marine... thats rediculous

 

As I said, the only thing we can do is email GW's FAQ team and ask that it be rectified. Otherwise we just move on and focus on the tools we have, which I think are very good

[Schlitzaf]

Yeah, literally its only stain on our rules atm frankly speaking.

[Ciler]

My local tourney player argue that it's "fair" because noone else can take 20man units, and that a 5-5 unit is the same cost. They agree though that the inability to get the heavy+special is more of a nerf.

[Medjugorje]

yes - it is...before that it was okay to stay by 13 Points for an initate because it was like a devastor with taking combiplasma+Plasma+plasmacannon. Now its just a secound Special melee weapon what is not worth the more Points.

 

And 11 for neophyte was never okay.

[Crusader7]

Assault Centurions have proven to be a dangerous unit if they can hit the enemy. They might be a goo unit to stick inside a crusader. They do make for an incredibly point heavy unit (~475) for the crusader and 5 Centurions but I can't think of a unit they cant mulch with ease. We might be able to pass on Hurricane Bolters as we want these guys advancing and charging after they leave the LRC.

Its already been established that LRCs are lacking in defensive stats for their point but we may be able to mitigate this through some other means. Aurilian Shroud and Litany of Divine Protection both activate in the beginning of the battle round, meaning even if we go second we get to give the LRC a 4++ and 5+++. If we go first moving and advancing get get you 10-16 inches alone. Popping smoke tacks on -1 to hit which is always welcome. At full tilt, our crusader is now probably now a bit tougher than a Knight Castellan thanks to FNP, 4++, Smoke and -1 to be hit. Even if our opponent manages to sink it turn one, they have likely diverted every bit of their army to it which lets us make moves elsewhere.

 

If we get through, we can then use the Emperor's Will to disembark 3", move 4" and advance D6. Then fire off 10x Flamers at a screening unit PLUS the Crusader's guns. Then charge 2D6 popping the other strat to shutdown overwatch and give them -1 to hit. With no supporting characters we a looking at an average threat range of 17.5 inches before re-rolls or buffs to charge distance. Hide a jump chaplain behind the crusader with Field Commander and +2 Litany and you get an average of 21.5 inch threat range out of the crusader (Not counting +1 to the Crusader's initial advance).

 

Supplement this with a pair of Invictors, 10x CC scouts for our stratagem, a few squads of incursors and some maybe a some Company Vets means dealing with the LRC turn one leaves them open to our forward deployment units.

[Acebaur]

You absolutely want to take Hurricane Bolters because if you don't need to advance to get your charge you are firing 60 boltgun shots from a 5 man unit. Furthermore you can use the IF strat that lets you change them to pistol type if you really need to, though you do lose half your shots because pistols don't double tap, but you'd be able to advance and shoot them with our strat. 

[Lysere]

You absolutely want to take Hurricane Bolters because if you don't need to advance to get your charge you are firing 60 boltgun shots from a 5 man unit. Furthermore you can use the IF strat that lets you change them to pistol type if you really need to, though you do lose half your shots because pistols don't double tap, but you'd be able to advance and shoot them with our strat. 

 

I'm playing with the assumption that we don't get to use any of the Imperial Fist strats for now and will add them in after the FAQ drops. Really wish I had the points and models to run more than three assault centurions with my but I don't even have the points for the hurricane bolters.

 

Still even three assault centurions can hit incredibly hard and make an excellent follow up to another assault unit.

[Link2edition]

I tried this out yesterday: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360276-bt-raider-rush-2000points/

I beat a white scars deepstrike/outflank focused army with it.

Knights of sigismund is hilarious against centurions.

[Ado]

Nice!

[Marshal Arthur]

Awesome! That looks like a fun fluffy list!

[SydonianDragoon404]

What are you guys using for anti tank firepower as standard these days? Is the old Venerable dread with twin las and missile launcher still the standard?