Competitive Black Templars -- PA2

[Link2edition]

What are you guys using for anti tank firepower as standard these days? Is the old Venerable dread with twin las and missile launcher still the standard? 

Devestators and landspeeders for me. But to be honest I mostly kill the big stuff in close combat anyway.

[Palmu]

What are you guys using for anti tank firepower as standard these days? Is the old Venerable dread with twin las and missile launcher still the standard? 

Thunder Hammers.

[Marshal Arthur]

Hammers and fists. Although I have been known to use grav-cannons in a drop pod and twin las contemptor mortis dreads.

[Medjugorje]

Razorbacks with Lascannons and Vanguard Veterans with Hammers

[Ado]

Was thinking g if taking twin las on my Chappy Dread for some shooty anti-tank fun. That and VV with THs

[Hymnblade]

Bike Chaplains have moved to Legends, sadly.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

And...?

[Hymnblade]

Wasn't responding to anything in particular, it just seemed like relevant news when a lot of us talked about bike chaplains with Canticle.

[Ciler]

Well in my opinion that's a good thing. The index chaplain on bike didn't have litanies, the legend one does, and they are the same cost... Index or legends is basically... the same thing.

 

Oh, and unlike indexes, those rules are free.

[Acebaur]

Well in my opinion that's a good thing. The index chaplain on bike didn't have litanies, the legend one does, and they are the same cost... Index or legends is basically... the same thing.

 

Oh, and unlike indexes, those rules are free.

 

Index Bike chaplain did have Litanies as well as Angel of Death

 

Legends is still legal in all 3 formats of play so no cause for alarm here. 

[Ciler]

Did they errata the indexes as well ? I must have missed that. So there is literally no difference at all, and indeed certainly no cause for anything.

[Acebaur]

Did they errata the indexes as well ? I must have missed that. So there is literally no difference at all, and indeed certainly no cause for anything.

 

They did when the C:SM dropped. But these essentially replace the indexes as the final version of them so to speak. Unless GW changes the core rules of the game again. 

[SydonianDragoon404]

Did the points cost of biker company veterans drop at all in legends?

[Acebaur]

Did the points cost of biker company veterans drop at all in legends?

 

Apparently not, I was thinking they went down but I was looking at battlescribe and forgot to account for the 2 point cost of twin bolters :lol:

[Palmu]

Has anyone given thought to how well we can do character spam? Given that we're a great chapter for getting into combat but generally not all that great IN combat, our characters could possibly do a lot of work in that regard.

 

By character spam I of course mean well-armed Captains or Lieutenants and MAYBE the EC. At least double Marshall Law seems approachable, one with the Teeth and one with the new relic sword we got and maybe Champion of Humanity seem like a decent pair of workhorses without being too expensive. A drain on CP, though.

[Link2edition]

Has anyone given thought to how well we can do character spam? Given that we're a great chapter for getting into combat but generally not all that great IN combat, our characters could possibly do a lot of work in that regard.

 

By character spam I of course mean well-armed Captains or Lieutenants and MAYBE the EC. At least double Marshall Law seems approachable, one with the Teeth and one with the new relic sword we got and maybe Champion of Humanity seem like a decent pair of workhorses without being too expensive. A drain on CP, though.

I for one think a few crusader blobs with 5 or more characters sprinkled in to taste is going to be very competitive.

[SydonianDragoon404]

For those of us looking for a good way to fill those fast attack slots for brigades, what do you guys think of assault marines these days? I know VV are better but they dont fill a fast attack slot. You give them the Crusader Helm doctrine buff, +1 attack from the Litany, then send them on their way? With advance and charge I dont think the enemy can really get away from a charge unless theyre at the back of their DZ. 4 attacks each on the charge at -1 with auto wound 6s doesnt seem bad for 150 points. Thoughts?

Oh yeah and dont forget about Hammer of Wrath for some mortal wound shenanigans.

[Acebaur]

For those of us looking for a good way to fill those fast attack slots for brigades, what do you guys think of assault marines these days? I know VV are better but they dont fill a fast attack slot. You give them the Crusader Helm doctrine buff, +1 attack from the Litany, then send them on their way? With advance and charge I dont think the enemy can really get away from a charge unless theyre at the back of their DZ. 4 attacks each on the charge at -1 with auto wound 6s doesnt seem bad for 150 points. Thoughts?

Oh yeah and dont forget about Hammer of Wrath for some mortal wound shenanigans.

 

I don't think assault marines are a good option as an assault force, they lack the attacks and weapon options of something like VV who are only marginally cheaper. I think they could still be useful as a harassment unit though. Keep them cheap and run double flamers and use them to sweep troops off of objectives.  Even then though I'm not sure they will earn their points back but worth trying out for sure. 

[Ciler]

Also I have the concern that if you use the helmet on them you're not using it on anything else.

[redmapa]

In Fast Attack I would use Bikes, you get the same number of attacks as Assault Squad, the point difference isnt that much and they get more out of doctrines since their bolters are buffed in Tactical and then can be as good as Assault squads in the Assault doctrine.  Sure, you cannot use the advance and charge stratagem but even then I think using it on Assault squads isnt that good either, deep striking them seems like a better choice for us if a unit has access to it since we can easily get a 60% (or 80% with Frontline Commander) chance to make that charge.

 

Land Speeders are another choice, they are pretty decent anti tank. Overall the Fast Attack slot kind of blows.

[SydonianDragoon404]

Best fast attack choices are primaris imo. Im gonna try out assault marines and let you guys know how it goes.

 

@Ciler what are you using the helm on turn 1? Most foot slogging units wont have the range to make the charge across the board unless your opponent literally puts his behind out in the wind for you. I dont expect my opponents to make it quite that easy for me, otherwise I would be using it on Veteran intercessors all day long.

[Palmu]

On Fast Attack, how about Scout Bikers? Cheap, fast, great firepower, benefit from the Scout stratagem we have...The little dudes don't seem like a poor choice.

 

Edit: Looking over the unit that I've long overlooked in question, I've come to realize that these dudes are absurdly loaded to bear. Not only do they have the three shooting weapons I was aware of, they're even packing combat blades and the sergeant can still pack a thunderhammer along as well. And I can have 9 of them in an unit. I'll have to see how I could slot these dudes into a list, but I think they could be something to try out as a companion to a footslogging crusader blob - ++5 on the Crusaders, Skilled Riders on the Bikers and that's two big units with good protections on them gunning right for the enemy lines. 

 

It's a goddamn shame scouts are the ugliest models in the entire game, it's a crime for them to be as good as they seem to be mechanically. 

[SydonianDragoon404]

I played against GSC for the first time yesterday, opponent conceded on turn 3. I gained some insights into how our new stuff in the book works, check out the "first game post PA 2" thread. 

 

Main problem I'm having right now is that I'm spending 4-6 command points pre game because our warlord traits and relics are so good, especially when fighting a psyker heavy army. If the enemy has more than 1 psyker unit, depending on the powers, I'm absolutely bringing out the witchseeker bolts and the deny WL trait. 

 

I really dig grimaldus but I feel in the long run I may end up using a Primaris MoS with the skull cacodominus in his place for certain lists, as the reliability to get some of those litany's off is really nice. I worry alot about relying on a single roll of 3+. 

[Ado]

I played against GSC for the first time yesterday, opponent conceded on turn 3. I gained some insights into how our new stuff in the book works, check out the "first game post PA 2" thread. 

 

Main problem I'm having right now is that I'm spending 4-6 command points pre game because our warlord traits and relics are so good, especially when fighting a psyker heavy army. If the enemy has more than 1 psyker unit, depending on the powers, I'm absolutely bringing out the witchseeker bolts and the deny WL trait. 

 

I really dig grimaldus but I feel in the long run I may end up using a Primaris MoS with the skull cacodominus in his place for certain lists, as the reliability to get some of those litany's off is really nice. I worry alot about relying on a single roll of 3+. 

Totally agree - my experience in my game tells me that if you really rely on getting those litanies off the the skull of cacodominus is a must.

[Marshal Arthur]

Do you mean the ancient breviary? And it’s good to hear your game went well. I’m excited to try out our new rules this week.