What are Zephyrim?

[L30n1d4s]

I am guessing that the new plastic Seraphim might be part of a dual build kit.... perhaps the "shooty" Jump Pack Seraphim and the "punchy" Jump Pack Zephyrim? This would also flesh out the SoB Fast Attack options a little, since right now it is pretty much just a choice between Seraphim and Dominions.

 

Thoughts?

[Montford]

They could be melee optimized Seraphim as some have suggested.

 

I'm rather hoping that they are bikes or landspeeder equivalents: something Fast Attack with high Movement that can take a ranged weapon heavier than a pistol.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Montford

[L30n1d4s]

Actually, they could also be a SoB Flyer, now that I think of it.

[Slasher956]

First thoughts on the name are a version of seraphim... so most likely CC orientated...

[Closet Skeleton]

A bad cross language group pun.

 

Zephyros is the west wind in greek, sometimes personified as a deity. Usually shortened to zephyr in English. -im is the standard hebrew pluralization (Seraph is the singular of Seraphim, which means 'burning one' and refers to venomous snakes of both mundane and angelic varieties based of the Egyptian iconography of a winged cobra as a guardian spirit).

Edited November 14, 2019 by Closet Skeleton

[Halandaar]

Almost certainly another jump-pack unit built by the Seraphim kit. That name has been crafted specifically to sound similar to Seraphim, despite being very different in origin from all the other names in the Sisters range. 

[kombatwombat]

Eviscerator-wielding Seraphim would make me very, very happy.

[Purifying Tempest]

Eh, if they're going to be fast attack, that likely means they'll have 1 attack base, 2 for the superior.  That's a lot of points for very few attacks when you consider a jump pack body + eviscerator.

 

Their best use would probably be going in cheap to shut a tank up for a turn or two.

 

The thought is cool, but... I'm not sure how I really feel about it the more I ponder it.  Thematically... yeah, roided out girls screaming about praise be to the emperor and the heretic will die while wielding giant chainswords of doom... all descending from the sky to get that choppy goodness to the most-deserving of the heretic kind.  But I think as a FA stat line with an elite Melee weapon, it will be hard to find a spot for a 20+ point 3T 1W model with a 3+ save, they better flip things with a vengeance! :D

 

Now... if they keep Bloody Rose as the +1 S/A on the charge... there may be a different conversation... especially if they go from typical FA to melee specialists and get that +1A for being melee only fashioned models.  But I still may like them more as standard Chainsword + Bolt Pistol gals dropping down to jump into some softer part of the enemy line or to gib a soft unit on an objective (drop in and charge onto the objective while drowning the unit in saves).  The thought entertains me a bit more if the old Burning Descent from the CA codex carries over and applies to them.  But, otherwise, if I were using them to tie down a tank... I may be more inclined to just double their model count for wrapping as opposed to trying to clash big expensive 3T models into a tank and hoping I can do enough meaningful damage in one swing to make the sacrifice worth it.

 

Just my thoughts :)

[Ficinus]

My hope for eviscerator wielding seraphim pretty much relies on them being A2 base and Bloody Rose staying as is (or getting better).

[MoshJason]

I'm hoping more shield and Lance? Go all Valkyrie

[Sersi]

How about melee cherubs?

[kombatwombat]

Oh Eviscerator Seraphim won’t be any good, but they’ll be awesome.

 

I mean, flying nuns with chainsaws. What’s not to adore?

[ERJAK]

Eh, if they're going to be fast attack, that likely means they'll have 1 attack base, 2 for the superior.  That's a lot of points for very few attacks when you consider a jump pack body + eviscerator.

 

Their best use would probably be going in cheap to shut a tank up for a turn or two.

 

The thought is cool, but... I'm not sure how I really feel about it the more I ponder it.  Thematically... yeah, roided out girls screaming about praise be to the emperor and the heretic will die while wielding giant chainswords of doom... all descending from the sky to get that choppy goodness to the most-deserving of the heretic kind.  But I think as a FA stat line with an elite Melee weapon, it will be hard to find a spot for a 20+ point 3T 1W model with a 3+ save, they better flip things with a vengeance!

 

Now... if they keep Bloody Rose as the +1 S/A on the charge... there may be a different conversation... especially if they go from typical FA to melee specialists and get that +1A for being melee only fashioned models.  But I still may like them more as standard Chainsword + Bolt Pistol gals dropping down to jump into some softer part of the enemy line or to gib a soft unit on an objective (drop in and charge onto the objective while drowning the unit in saves).  The thought entertains me a bit more if the old Burning Descent from the CA codex carries over and applies to them.  But, otherwise, if I were using them to tie down a tank... I may be more inclined to just double their model count for wrapping as opposed to trying to clash big expensive 3T models into a tank and hoping I can do enough meaningful damage in one swing to make the sacrifice worth it.

 

Just my thoughts

 

Why would them being in the fast attack slot determine the number of melee attacks they get? 

[Servant of Dante]

I for one would love to see melee Seraphim be useful. Emperor knows I'll keep throwing them into melee regardless . . . 

 

That said, if they don't have the dual bolt pistols I'd be dubious about considering them Seraphim at all. A melee unit with jump packs and evicerators would be a very distinct break from the Seraphim's normal aesthetic. Maybe it'd grow on me over time

 

I do agree with Purifying Tempest that they'd need more than 1 base attack to be useful, but if this new unit gets 2 Attacks and Seraphim (who were canonically veterans before Celestians even existed in the fluff) are still stuck without a proper Veteran stat line, I'm going to be a bit salty

 

Edit: My signature is relevant, I suppose

Edited November 15, 2019 by Servant of Dante

[tvih]

A melee jump unit would be nice, whether it is Eviscerators or "regular" melee weapons. But then we really should also get a jump HQ option besides Celestine, as well.

 

Speaking of Celestine and melee jump models, I wonder what'll become of the wonder twins in this latest iteration!

[Servant of Dante]

A melee jump unit would be nice, whether it is Eviscerators or "regular" melee weapons. But then we really should also get a jump HQ option besides Celestine, as well.

 

Speaking of Celestine and melee jump models, I wonder what'll become of the wonder twins in this latest iteration!

cough cough Seraphim Superior should be an HQ cough :P

Edited November 15, 2019 by Servant of Dante

[ERJAK]

A melee jump unit would be nice, whether it is Eviscerators or "regular" melee weapons. But then we really should also get a jump HQ option besides Celestine, as well.

 

Speaking of Celestine and melee jump models, I wonder what'll become of the wonder twins in this latest iteration!

Gotta be something BIG because the Geminae were the absolute, uncontested worst unit in the game in beta codex.

[Slasher956]

Guess work... bolt pistol and chain sword as standard with 0-2 able to swap their chain sword for a weapon from the melee list which now includes evicirators

 

Geminae go back to being a unit with the saint or just able to be returned even if both killed at the cost of a MD

[Guest Triszin]

I wouldnt say chainsword.

 

I'd guess 2 handed greatswords?

[ERJAK]

Guess work... bolt pistol and chain sword as standard with 0-2 able to swap their chain sword for a weapon from the melee list which now includes evicirators

 

Geminae go back to being a unit with the saint or just able to be returned even if both killed at the cost of a MD

The geminae going back into a unit with Celestine would be awesome.

 

Zephyrim are going to need way better than that if they're going to be useful, unless you're thinking squads of 30 with built in rerolls to charge. Powerweapons especially suck on S3 models

 

If we want squads of 5-10 to be a competitive melee option then they need to be at least 3 attacks with at least strength 4 with at least AP-1, unbuffed. With that statline, you could conceivably run a bloody rose vanguard detachment and have a cheap, expendable deepstriking threat against soft targets in your opponent's backline.

 

Having a couple of eviscerators in there would be nice, but building the unit like that(especially if a base zephyrim is just a +1 to CQC seraphim and not an entire new profile) means you have 3 models in the unit that want to clear out things like eliminators, sniper scouts, buff characters, objective grabbers, etc; and 2 models that want to go after light vehicles, combat characters, and biker/Gravis equivalents. It's more efficient to have the entire unit with something like deathcult powerswords with +1 strength.

[Mekhitar]

It looks like they are an elites choice.

[taikishi]

No Jacobus
No new generic HQ
Possibly a second new special character
Still no rules for Verydian
5 new units total
Mention of Angelic Hosts in the fluff section but no entry in the army section
Mortifiers (new tank?)
Geminae are still a separate entry

Edited November 15, 2019 by taikishi

[ERJAK]

No Jacobus

No new generic HQ

Possibly a second new special character

Still no rules for Verydian

5 new units total

Mention of Angelic Hosts in the fluff section but no entry in the army section

Mortifiers (new tank?)

Geminae are still a separate entry

Geminae noo.... why u still awful?

[tvih]

Even if Geminae are separate, it's not automatically hopelessly bad... but to not be bad they really need to be characters or otherwise similarly "untargetable" via some rule.

 

I wonder what the "Triumph of Saint Katherine" is, assuming I read that correctly - being within the unit list it's supposedly a unit? Battle Sanctum is at the end so I suppose that it's a building... or a Superheavy. Zephyrim being Elite is indeed good, since it means more attacks if nothing else (assuming it's indeed a melee unit). "Mortifiers", being a plural, doesn't like a tank. Curious!

[ERJAK]

Even if Geminae are separate, it's not automatically hopelessly bad... but to not be bad they really need to be characters or otherwise similarly "untargetable" via some rule.

 

I wonder what the "Triumph of Saint Katherine" is, assuming I read that correctly - being within the unit list it's supposedly a unit? Battle Sanctum is at the end so I suppose that it's a building... or a Superheavy. Zephyrim being Elite is indeed good, since it means more attacks if nothing else (assuming it's indeed a melee unit). "Mortifiers", being a plural, doesn't like a tank. Curious!

They have way bigger problems than that. Like being an escort unit that only has 4 wounds across two TWENTY FIVE point models.