Devs vs Eliminators vs Suppressors

[tedzilla]

I really like eliminators and suppressors but feel it is hard to put both in lists.  I wanted to kind of see the differences of each vs different targets.  I also wanted to check the difference in a dev squad vs eliminator squad.  I tried to match up the points as closely as possible for a comparison.  This comparison is obviously in a vacuum and not perfect. 

1 squad of devs vs 2 squads of eliminators vs 2 squads of suppressors.  The devs have 4 lascannons and a few extra devs for wounds.  This does not take into account bolter fire. I didn't check damage for highs and lows for the lascannons, just an average of 3.5 damage  The eliminators are using 2 las fusils while the sarge has an instigator bolt carbine.  The sarge never shoots and always uses his ability for the other two members of the squads.  The suppressors are set up the way they come.

I'm also not sure if this is the best way to post a chart, if there is a better way please tell me!  Also please let me know if you see any mistakes.  I did all of this with the battlescribe dice tool and started going a little cross eyed by the end of it.  The chart is a little crude. I hope this helps someone.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BSajrKOdPnmf99RfqwKr7fZaMPkVbyvEi26b51mucRs/edit?usp=sharing

 

What do you all like to use? 

[Panzer]

Pretty difficult to compare to be honest.

Neither Devastators nor Suppressors can infiltrate, have a 1+ armour save in cover, target characters or target units they can't see.

Neither Devastators nor Eliminators have S7 AP-2 D2 at 48" combined with 12" movement and the ability to to be put into reserves (unless you pay for a Drop Pod for Devastators). The ability to occasionally suppress overwatch can be nice too.

Neither Suppressors nor Eliminators can take Lascannons, Plasma cannons or Heavy Flamers (or Heavy Bolter, Multi-melta, grav or missile launcher, though those are basically just variants and often inferior to the other options) or take ablative wounds to protect their cheap and fraguile heavy/special weapon guys.

[redshadow]

I think eliminators with las just edge it for me because you can hide them but suppressors can do work too, I rarely play devastators anymore, I’m sure someone with do the math hammer for you but i think the eliminators come out on top against high toughness 3+ save

[tedzilla]

I wasn't really trying to point out the differences in all of them. I just wanted to compare damage in comparable setups. I should have explained better, I was rambling a bit.

The chart in the link started as just comparing 4 lascannon devs to 4 lasfusil eliminators damage output against different targets. Later I added the suppressors just to see the difference between all 3.

[Majkhel]

Just out of curiosity - have you calculated one lascanon hitting on +2 in the dev squad from the sergeant's Signum?

I'm kinda suprised that devs come out so low. On the other hand - I've seen those single shots wasted often enough.
Have you seen the discussion in the unit of the week: Eliminators?

[Karhedron]

For me, the benefit of Suppressors is that they offer Autocannon firepower that is generally rare in Marine armies (unless you go for FW Dreads). For ~100 points, they bring a decent amount of firepower that is good against units with invulnerable saves (Custodes, Hammernators, Wulfen, Daemons etc). They can shut down overwatch and make use of UWOF which is nice (albeit situational). They definitely fill a niche, I am just not sure if the range of optimum targets is broad enough to justify their inclusion over some of our other firepower options.

[tedzilla]

I did not count the Signum so the devs will do a little better with that and the cherub

[Majkhel]

Cherub is situational - just one shot per game. If you want to keep it average, then don't count it.

[Karhedron]

True but the first round of shooting is often the most important so don't discount a one off bonus.

[Blindhamster]

If you want to include it. Work out the % for it with and without. Then calculate 4* without and 1* with then divide the lot by 5.

[The Unseen]

The Cherub is super important when you factor in the Signum as well.

Shooting twice with a lascannon at BS2+ is no joke.

Or even a plasma cannon that gets 2d3 shots and can't overheat.