How are warp spiders now?

[Xenith]

Hi all,

 

I played against some craftworlders yesterday and the changes in 8th got me thinking. 

 

The last time I played with them was in 6th ed. Back then battle focus let you run/advance before or after shooting, allowing you to put some distance between you and the enemy. Very useful with the abundance of 12" range guns. 

 

Jetbikes and warp spiders also were allowed to move in the assault phase regardless of charging or not, letting them put more distance in.

 

I see that both of these rules are gone now. While As a primarily Imperial player, I'm glad, I cant help but think it's killed the utility of the army. Was the old shoot and fall back rule too powerful? Are warp spiders useless now they cant fall back out of danger? 

 

They were my favourite aspect, and while I'll admit they were maybe too strong the last couple of editions, the assault phase jump has been their schtick since 1998 (or longer?) and I'm sad to see it go!

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Shoot'n'scoot still exists as a stratagem called Fire And Fade, so the capability is there you just have to be choosy about it.

 

Honestly, I love them and want to field some. They're fast with decent guns and they're actually kind d of durable: 3+ save, -1 to be hit via Flickerjump combined with Lightning Reflexes, being Alaitoc, and Conceal.

[Karhedron]

Yes, Eldar play quite differently in 8th. Battle Focus used to allow many of our units to move again after shooting (not as far as Warp Spiders but it was handy for Avengers to put a few inches between then and their freshly mauled target). It really suited the Eldar stereotype of a fast-but-fragile army. They were forever dancing around at the edge of range, inflicting death by a thousand (shuriken) cuts. Enemy retaliation could crush you but only if they could catch you.

 

Now we seem to be an army of glass hammers (aside from Wraith units). Most tactics rely on trying to deliver as much damage as possible in a short period of time. Tactics like Guardian webway bombs spring to mind. Or spamming Alaitoc Crimson Hunter Exarchs and continuously sniping the enemy from the back edge of the board.

 

Eldar used to live or die in the movement phase. Now they have replaced all our clever movement options with stratagems (which can only be used once per turn) or mechanics like the Alaitoc -1 to-Hit. Eldar can still manage top-tier builds but some of the finesse and subtlety seems to have gone out of 8th.

[battle captain corpus]

I truly, deeply have an affection for Warp Spiders. I grabbed the Blood of the Phoenix box set to help form the backbone of my army and whilst Banshee's are excellent, Warp Spiders I think will definitely be in my collection going forward to!

 

BCC

[Xenith]

Yes, Eldar play quite differently in 8th. Battle Focus used to allow many of our units to move again after shooting (not as far as Warp Spiders but it was handy for Avengers to put a few inches between then and their freshly mauled target). It really suited the Eldar stereotype of a fast-but-fragile army. They were forever dancing around at the edge of range, inflicting death by a thousand (shuriken) cuts. Enemy retaliation could crush you but only if they could catch you.

 

Now we seem to be an army of glass hammers (aside from Wraith units). Most tactics rely on trying to deliver as much damage as possible in a short period of time. Tactics like Guardian webway bombs spring to mind. Or spamming Alaitoc Crimson Hunter Exarchs and continuously sniping the enemy from the back edge of the board.

 

Eldar used to live or die in the movement phase. Now they have replaced all our clever movement options with stratagems (which can only be used once per turn) or mechanics like the Alaitoc -1 to-Hit. Eldar can still manage top-tier builds but some of the finesse and subtlety seems to have gone out of 8th.

 

That's what I mean. It was a feature of the army to be able to disrupt the normal turn order, many units could move shoot move, relying on their speed to keep them out of harms way. It was super annoying to face them, but super cool and thematic. Now I get that they can all advance and fire, but they can only run toward the enemy. It seems to really have killed the viability of huge chunks of the army. Spiders with their 12" weapons in particular seem hampered as they cannot run away anymore. Dragons are in the same boat, but largely with much more powerful weapons, and go after different targets. Spiders I feel dont have the weight of shots to kill what they need to without dying in return. 12" range deathspinners from every member of the unit puts them damnger close, and easily within charge range. Flickerjump does squat against that.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Eldar have always been built to be fragile; that very fragility is why Wraith units are enduringly popular. People don't like playing a fragile-but-point-intensive army. You can ill afford losses...which is the point. That's *the* point in the Eldar lore.

 

So you have to bring overwhelming force to bear on specific points of the battlefield so wipe out particular enemies and prevent your opponent from responding. The intention has always always been that they're a finesse army but the rules have favored them so much since 6th Edition that people have been able to play them as pure hammers.

[Karhedron]

It is true that Eldar have always been "fast but fragile". The problem is that in previous editions, the rules that implemented this belonged either to the army (e.g. Battle Focus) or to the unit (e.g. Flickerjump).

 

Now GW seems to prefer to implement these features via stratagems such as Lightning Fast Reflexes or Fire and Fade. The problem with this is that CPs are a limited Resource and each stratagem can only be used once per phase which frequently leaves key units hanging in the breeze.

 

Playing competitive Eldar is certainly possible but it is not possible to play them the way they used to be.