Darkness in the Blood - Spoilers incoming

[Blindhamster]

So, finished it, my thoughts below:

 

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Dante:

He is old and dying, he wont give up because he is too stubborn, but its clear he is on the decline. He has the support of most of his new primaris brothers but it's clear there are a few that think him too cautious and possibly too old. Whilst others seem to have adjusted to being blood Angels more fully and show dante a great deal of respect.

 

Mephiston says if Dante crosses the Rubicon he will die. And says Dante shouldnt. Possible they may have plans to kill him off?

 

The scenes from the past where Dante became chapter master were cool, nice to see young Dante. Confirmation that his hair was indeed black at one point too haha.

 

Dante is shown to be an excellent blend of statesman and leader but it's made clear that he had to become that due to expectations, also that the legends about him are massively overblown. He IS the chapter master of a first founding chapter and he strives to live up to the legends but he is ultimately only a man.

 

Mephiston:

Interesting to see the subplot of his own novels be more or less resolved in a different series.

 

I liked his portrayal more in this generally than I have in those books though. He is crazy powerful but will forever have to restrain himself.

 

It was also cool to see a glimpse of childhood Kali and a bit more of a glimpse into his time as Calistarius.

 

His power in the book is crazy, his game rules are seriously lacking, he really should at the very least have a bonus or a reroll on psychic tests.

 

 

Other characters:

Astorath is intimidating as ever.

 

I really like the new captain of the iron helms, Antargo. He got a lot of screen time, wondering if he may be getting setup to be replacement for Dante if Dante does die crossing the rubicon.

 

The subplot with the imperial navy personnel was quite sad actually, the fact the first officer murders his admiral in the end was so typical of the imperium but sad at the same time. Hopefully we get to see the first officer again and the results of that.

 

Rhaecelus is awesome as ever, really cool old man style librarian and a true friend of Mephiston. He is the one to suggest the rubicon we a way to maybe save Mephiston.

 

Having it made clear slaanesh really wants the blood angels still in the first part of the book was interesting, the way kyriss (from fear to tread) entered was metal as heck. The fight was also cool.

 

Teus

Yay! I am glad that Guy picked up the thread again, seems the boy is now a full primaris marine and we see him fighting in both the vanguard and as an intercessor. Seems to be quite talented. It was also a cool way to give a glimpse into how the new primaris brothers are being created initially and how they're being trained in then immediate aftermath of devastation of baal. Really hope we get more about this guy.

 

Qvo-87

Interesting that he isn't even a clone, I assumed clone during the great work but apparently he is an AI with just enough biological components that the mechanicum dont kick up too much of a fuss. His role is really just to pass on knowledge and help Mephiston cross the Rubicon.

 

 

 

Other thoughts

The process to cross the rubicon was shown in pretty graphic detail. Wow its appropriately grimdark.

 

The stuff with the sanguinor and the angel of darkness was a bit on the nose but does make sense as an extension beyond space and time of the inner struggle of the blood angels. It isn't as overdone as the leaks suggested. And they're only ever seen by a couple or characters.

 

Little heart to heart about seeing sanguinius between mephiston and dante was cool. What if it was him?

 

 

 

Final thoughts

Overall it was another good Guy Haley book. He continues to build the setting up in a consistent and coherent way. I personally still think Dante was the best in this trilogy. But I liked this one as much as Devastation of Baal.

 

[Indefragable]

Response to @Blindhamster’s spoilers:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

If they kill off Dante in something so undignified as crossing the Rubicon I’m out. That would be everything conceivably wrong with this new lore...

 

...and I don’t just say that since he’s my boy. You have every Tom, Dick, and Harry possible crossing the rubicon, this thing that is supposedly incredibly dangerous, just fine, then you have one of the greatest heroes the Imperium has ever known who has survived unimaginable horror die to it?

 

Lame as :cuss .

 

I don’t care how old he is. That’s dumb.

 

 

@hamster anything else to elaborate on regarding Dante himself?

 

[rookie40K]

  Reveal hidden contents

I don’t want Dante to die in any way possible. I really want the character to become Primaris for both lore and the model. He’s too iconic for 40K. A restart button for him would be awesome; however, it seems that approach has been taken by Mephiston.

Also there is an old art piece with a golden warrior with a full face mask (not Tycho). I hope a new Primaris Captain is created in that armor. A remake of a Tycho like character. A man can hope and dream right?

Edited December 15, 2019 by Kelborn

[Blindhamster]

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Not too much, lets see....

 

THE PAST

 

You get a scene after the ambush that saw most of the chapter get killed prior to Dante being made Chapter master, the council of bone and blood argue over if Dante should become chapter master, it is the high chaplain of the time that decides he will be.

 

Throughout the story we get the events that lead up to that as well as the immediate events after it. We see Dante striding through a destroyed city, taking the time to pick up a childs doll and make the sign of the aquilla, he laments that the destruction was necessary, he dislikes the idea of innocents dying - important as it's a thing we know he continues to hate even in current timeline. We learn that the Angels Numenous (possibly spelt incorrectly - but ADBs chapter lol) have close ties with the BA, and one of their captains has a close bond with Dante. Dante at the time is captain of the 8th company.

 

The chapter are recalled to Baal ready to fight another war elsewhere, but on the way they get ambushed by the black legion, who are intent on stealing the battlebarges (one is Bloodcaller - relevant for later) and destroying the chapter. They're almost successful with only the timely arrival of the Angels Numenous making the difference. Only around 200 Blood Angels remain after the events. Dantes old chaplain mentor from the Dante novel gets slain and his best friend Lorenz goes missing, being recovered a number of days later in the void.

 

Dante eventually gets made captain, he makes mistakes during the events and comes across as a skilled warrior and decent leader, but nothing special really - exactly as he has always been described at that time.

 

Anyway, after being asked if he'll become chapter master and do his duty as the only captain remaining, he agrees and accepts the burden for the good of the chapter.

 

CURRENT TIME

 

Dante is dying, his wounds aren't healing. He's still a badass, but every fight scene he has, makes a point to highlight the pain he feels from the wounds he suffered on Baal. They should have healed a long time ago, but simply are not.

 

He is drinking blood again, and by the sound of it, a fair amount too - because it's about the only thing giving him strength enough to go on, and he feels he HAS to go on, because the Emperor through Guilliman has commanded it.

 

When Kyriss, one of the 6 greatest demons of Slaanesh freezes all the marines on its arrival, only Mephiston and Dante remain unaffected through force of will - which is cool and interesting.

 

When Mephiston loses control, it's Dante, nobody else that gets to him and shatters his psychic hood and stops the near catastrophe (this is also the moment we get the first ever black rage intercessors too).

 

Dante spends a fair chunk of time talking to an Admiral he wants to lead his fleets, this admiral has pretty severe PTSD and Dante does his best to help the man find himself so that he might do his duty again (these talks are the framing device for most of the flashbacks). It's made clear Dante has an excellent voice for stories and he is both intimidating and quite easy to admire and like.

 

Dante makes a point of highlighting that he isn't half the hero the Imperium believe he is, his legend is far too great for any one man, even one who has lived as long as he has. He's incredibly humble about it all, just saying he does what he can to be the leader the Imperium needs and that perhaps for those he cannot get to, his legend can at least provide hope. It's not his legend though, it's more than him.

 

When he meets Qvo-87 he is shown to be quite distrustful because of what Guilliman says, but agrees to listen to Qvo. He is pretty much set that he will eventually cross the Rubicon after their conversation. During the conversation Qvo notes that three capital ships is a lot for any chapter to have, perhaps too much? Dante asks if its too much for the regent of the Imperium Nihilus which Qvo apologises for, but Dante then agrees and states he actually intends to repay the debt to the Angels Numenous that has been left unpaid so long. He is going to give them Bloodcaller. The significance is not lost on Qvo who notes that all that is said of Dante is true. 

 

Dante is portrayed as incredibly wise, but also incredibly tired all the way through the book, it's his running theme. He's still a total badass, but one who really just wants to rest now. He knows he cannot so presses on despite himself. He is shown to be quite skilled at utilising those he commands, capable of turning discontent or outright defiance to good ends.

 

[Lord_Caerolion]

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Maybe have that Dante gets grievously wounded, and when they try to put him through the Rubicon to save him, he doesn't make it. I mean, we're told it's a dangerous procedure, we shouldn't have every single character protected by plot armour.

[Indefragable]

  On 12/12/2019 at 9:30 PM, Blindhamster said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Not too much, lets see....

 

THE PAST

 

You get a scene after the ambush that saw most of the chapter get killed prior to Dante being made Chapter master, the council of bone and blood argue over if Dante should become chapter master, it is the high chaplain of the time that decides he will be.

 

Throughout the story we get the events that lead up to that as well as the immediate events after it. We see Dante striding through a destroyed city, taking the time to pick up a childs doll and make the sign of the aquilla, he laments that the destruction was necessary, he dislikes the idea of innocents dying - important as it's a thing we know he continues to hate even in current timeline. We learn that the Angels Numenous (possibly spelt incorrectly - but ADBs chapter lol) have close ties with the BA, and one of their captains has a close bond with Dante. Dante at the time is captain of the 8th company.

 

The chapter are recalled to Baal ready to fight another war elsewhere, but on the way they get ambushed by the black legion, who are intent on stealing the battlebarges (one is Bloodcaller - relevant for later) and destroying the chapter. They're almost successful with only the timely arrival of the Angels Numenous making the difference. Only around 200 Blood Angels remain after the events. Dantes old chaplain mentor from the Dante novel gets slain and his best friend Lorenz goes missing, being recovered a number of days later in the void.

 

Dante eventually gets made captain, he makes mistakes during the events and comes across as a skilled warrior and decent leader, but nothing special really - exactly as he has always been described at that time.

 

Anyway, after being asked if he'll become chapter master and do his duty as the only captain remaining, he agrees and accepts the burden for the good of the chapter.

 

CURRENT TIME

 

Dante is dying, his wounds aren't healing. He's still a badass, but every fight scene he has, makes a point to highlight the pain he feels from the wounds he suffered on Baal. They should have healed a long time ago, but simply are not.

 

He is drinking blood again, and by the sound of it, a fair amount too - because it's about the only thing giving him strength enough to go on, and he feels he HAS to go on, because the Emperor through Guilliman has commanded it.

 

When Kyriss, one of the 6 greatest demons of Slaanesh freezes all the marines on its arrival, only Mephiston and Dante remain unaffected through force of will - which is cool and interesting.

 

When Mephiston loses control, it's Dante, nobody else that gets to him and shatters his psychic hood and stops the near catastrophe (this is also the moment we get the first ever black rage intercessors too).

 

Dante spends a fair chunk of time talking to an Admiral he wants to lead his fleets, this admiral has pretty severe PTSD and Dante does his best to help the man find himself so that he might do his duty again (these talks are the framing device for most of the flashbacks). It's made clear Dante has an excellent voice for stories and he is both intimidating and quite easy to admire and like.

 

Dante makes a point of highlighting that he isn't half the hero the Imperium believe he is, his legend is far too great for any one man, even one who has lived as long as he has. He's incredibly humble about it all, just saying he does what he can to be the leader the Imperium needs and that perhaps for those he cannot get to, his legend can at least provide hope. It's not his legend though, it's more than him.

 

When he meets Qvo-87 he is shown to be quite distrustful because of what Guilliman says, but agrees to listen to Qvo. He is pretty much set that he will eventually cross the Rubicon after their conversation. During the conversation Qvo notes that three capital ships is a lot for any chapter to have, perhaps too much? Dante asks if its too much for the regent of the Imperium Nihilus which Qvo apologises for, but Dante then agrees and states he actually intends to repay the debt to the Angels Numenous that has been left unpaid so long. He is going to give them Bloodcaller. The significance is not lost on Qvo who notes that all that is said of Dante is true. 

 

Dante is portrayed as incredibly wise, but also incredibly tired all the way through the book, it's his running theme. He's still a total badass, but one who really just wants to rest now. He knows he cannot so presses on despite himself. He is shown to be quite skilled at utilising those he commands, capable of turning discontent or outright defiance to good ends.

 

Great recap. Thanks!

 

  Reveal hidden contents

New insane theory:

 

Dante goes through the Rubicon, but based on age and all you've said, he's going to die (like for realz, not the dying as part of the procedure that Calgar did), and so he summons every last bit of strength he has....which is to tap into the Black Rage, thus propelling him to survive the surgery, but then as apart of his awakening as a Primaris is able to dig deep into 1500 years of service to overcome the Rage like Mephiston, thus becoming only the 2nd BA ever to do it and getting much of the superpowers that Mephiston has (albeit without the psyker stuff). Dante and Mephiston than star in their own buddy cop movie, Baal Boys, with Mephiston as the loose cannon and Dante as Mr. "I'm too old for this :cuss " . 

 

I don't know if I actually want that to happen, but just a thought that occurred to me, especially as it could be one way to make the "Primarch Equivalent" combo of Dante, Mephiston, and the Sanguinor.

 

  On 12/12/2019 at 9:38 PM, Lord_Caerolion said:

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Maybe have that Dante gets grievously wounded, and when they try to put him through the Rubicon to save him, he doesn't make it. I mean, we're told it's a dangerous procedure, we shouldn't have every single character protected by plot armour.

 

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Name your bodies. Who else shouldn't make it?

 

Let's put this on paper.

[Lord_Caerolion]

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Maybe Grimnar, or Cassius? I'm just saying, we've got a character that all current fluff is saying is increasingly struggling physically in his advanced age, far older than any other Marine outside a Dreadnought. I'm not arguing that he should be removed as a usable character or anything.

[Indefragable]

  On 12/12/2019 at 11:47 PM, Lord_Caerolion said:

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Maybe Grimnar, or Cassius? I'm just saying, we've got a character that all current fluff is saying is increasingly struggling physically in his advanced age, far older than any other Marine outside a Dreadnought. I'm not arguing that he should be removed as a usable character or anything.

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...which is exactly what makes him all the more interesting...eternal life does not equal eternal youth and so sometimes it’s more heroic to keep on living than to go out charging with the light brigade.

 

To each their own.

 

Look, I’m obviously biased and no one has to like everyone, nor buy into everything, but I made the “name bodies” comment precisely b/c it’s always easy to have someone else’s dude die off in an inglorious fashion. It would be a much different story if Calgar died attempting to cross, since the UM can do no wrong for GW and it would start the precedence with a bang, with all the fandom united in wondering who the one dude to make it will be, rather than everyone wondering who the one poor sap who doesn’t make it will be. At this point we might as well chalk the danger angle up to typical GW hyperbole and it’s Oprah Winfrey style embiggening for everybody.

 

We can continue the convo in pvt or in a different thread. 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Indefragable

[Blindhamster]

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for what it's worth, mephiston warns dante not to cross the rubicon, because it will kill him and not just temporarily.

Qvo-87 also states that the task is less likely to work for the blood Angel's and space wolves due to their divergences.

Dante is one of my favourite characters too so I do hope he crosses the rubicon and survives but it does feel unlikely

[Panzer]

  On 12/12/2019 at 8:28 AM, Blindhamster said:

So, finished it, my thoughts below:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Dante:

 

Mephiston says if Dante crosses the Rubicon he will die. And says Dante shouldnt. Possible they may have plans to kill him off?

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I could see GW go with one of three ways:

1. Have Dante "retire" from active duty. Would be pretty meh.
2. Have Dante survive the Rubicon against the odds. The most boring and uncreative option but not unlike GW to do that.
3. Have Dante die during the process but also "revive" by fusing with the Sanguinor, ultimately becoming the avatar of the bright angle like Mephiston became the avatar of the black angel. It's a bit of a reach but would imo also be the most interesting option and would tie in with the Sanguinor giving Dante special attention and both sharing the spot of "iconic golden angelic not-Sanguinius beatstick character" in the Blood Angels faction. To clarify, in this case Dante would not become the Sanguinor. As far as I understood it the Sanguinor gave himself completely to the bright angel so he basically became the bright angel himself instead of just being the avatar. Probably not going to happen anyway though.

I doubt GW would just replace him though. He's too iconic and got too many fans, especially after the recent Haley books. Giving him this much focus just to replace him would be like shooting into your own foot.

 

[Blindhamster]

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Here's hoping he gets a nice new update after beating the odds then!

I don't think they would or even should merge him with the Sanguinor personally, the way he (sanguinor) has been presented, I don't really see how it would make sense.

 

Ideally, Dante crosses the Rubicon and survives thanks to the by that point well practiced skills of Corbulo (whom even Qvo-87 compliments during the process of crossing Mephiston).

 

I can't imagine anything will be done with Dante for another year, we seem to have become the christmas faction, with our big releases almost always falling at the start of december!

 

[Panzer]

  On 12/13/2019 at 9:58 AM, Blindhamster said:

we seem to have become the christmas faction, with our big releases almost always falling at the start of december!

 

 

Quite fitting with Sanguinala being christmas and everything. :D

[b1soul]

It's more likely that chapter masters and senior captains survive the crossing, since they get the best medical facilities and treatment.

 

Grunt marines undergoing the procedure on the frontiers of the Imperium will be at higher risk.

[Claws and Effect]

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I suspect the Hive Mind developing a personality of sorts is a side effect of the nature of the biomass they've been consuming for the last few centuries.

Remember that Tyranids take on traits of things they consume. It's part of how they adapt to better consume whatever galaxy they happen to be in at the time.

It is possible that the new development of the Hive Mind gaining emotions such as hatred and spite is simply a side effect of its attempts to better understand these creatures that are resisting them so stubbornly so it can better kill them.

If they've never encountered a sentient species they couldn't just steamroll over before it stands to reason that it would lead to an evolution of sorts.

The Swarmlord is a great example of this. It was spelled out pretty clearly that the Swarmlord didn't exist prior to the Hive Mind encountering food that could fight back effectively. A creature that could learn and remember things independently was simply never needed before.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Kelborn

[Panzer]

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  On 12/13/2019 at 10:25 PM, Claws and Effect said:

I suspect the Hive Mind developing a personality of sorts is a side effect of the nature of the biomass they've been consuming for the last few centuries.

Remember that Tyranids take on traits of things they consume. It's part of how they adapt to better consume whatever galaxy they happen to be in at the time.

It is possible that the new development of the Hive Mind gaining emotions such as hatred and spite is simply a side effect of its attempts to better understand these creatures that are resisting them so stubbornly so it can better kill them.

If they've never encountered a sentient species they couldn't just steamroll over before it stands to reason that it would lead to an evolution of sorts.

The Swarmlord is a great example of this. It was spelled out pretty clearly that the Swarmlord didn't exist prior to the Hive Mind encountering food that could fight back effectively. A creature that could learn and remember things independently was simply never needed before.

Tyranids don't just randomly take on traits of what they consume though. That's what Kroot do. Tyranids basically create a database of traits of what they consume and then pick a selection of traits to create a new organism to fulfill a specific purpose.

It's also not necessarily developing a personality, just humanity discovering it.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Kelborn

[Roomsky]

  On 12/12/2019 at 6:10 PM, Indefragable said:

Response to @Blindhamster’s spoilers:

 

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If they kill off Dante in something so undignified as crossing the Rubicon I’m out. That would be everything conceivably wrong with this new lore...

 

...and I don’t just say that since he’s my boy. You have every Tom, Dick, and Harry possible crossing the rubicon, this thing that is supposedly incredibly dangerous, just fine, then you have one of the greatest heroes the Imperium has ever known who has survived unimaginable horror die to it?

 

Lame as .

 

I don’t care how old he is. That’s dumb.

 

 

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Ima respectfully disagree. 

 

Dante surviving is endemic of everything wrong with the new lore, where everyone of even mild importance is completely invulnerable.

 

The 13th Black Crusade has happened. And the Wrath of Magnus. And the Devastation of Baal. We've had a hundred-year long crusade with Guilliman leading Imperial forces against the now-freed but disorderly hordes of Chaos, and a hundred year period of isolation from the Imperium in the systems across the rift. Apparently the "only war" aspect has ramped up.

 

But nobody has died. Not Abaddon, not Calgar, nor Dante nor Logan nor Eldrad. Khârn, Lucius, Typhus, Ahriman, Huron, Erebus, Kor Phaeron. Helbrecht, Seth, Mephiston, Kantor, Azrael, Shrike, Tu'Shan, Vulkan Hestan, Bjorn, Jubal, Sicarius. Yarrick, :cussing Creed, Mortarion, Lorgar, Magnus, Angron, Fulgrim, Perturabo, nobody has died.

 

Atop that, we have dead things being actively revived. Guilliman, Silent Sisters. Dorn and Valdor have been "vanished" so we can have them back too if we need them. 

 

It's frankly unbelievable.

 

Remember Alexis Polux? Rad dude, thicc boi, lead the Crimson Fists for 800 years before getting poisoned, used sheer determination to advise his warriors on how to win before succumbing. That is how you tell me someone was badass in a galaxy of "only war." If characters aren't fragile then their accomplishments mean literally nothing. This "crossing the primaris rubicon is super dangerous" BS is empty risk in an attempt to be slightly less transparent about selling new models.

 

So don't worry, Dante will live and he'll get a shiny new model and a few new characters may be invented to fail just to pay lip-service to the "dangerous" aspect. God forbid the demands of this eternal war actually claim any lives. People can complain about the Horus Heresy's slide toward cape comic level antics and plot-armour, (and it's definitely to blame for it infecting 40k), bat damn if the modern setting doesn't have it soooooo much worse.

 

[Indefragable]

  On 12/14/2019 at 3:39 PM, Roomsky said:

 

  On 12/12/2019 at 6:10 PM, Indefragable said:

 

Response to @Blindhamster’s spoilers:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

If they kill off Dante in something so undignified as crossing the Rubicon I’m out. That would be everything conceivably wrong with this new lore...

 

...and I don’t just say that since he’s my boy. You have every Tom, Dick, and Harry possible crossing the rubicon, this thing that is supposedly incredibly dangerous, just fine, then you have one of the greatest heroes the Imperium has ever known who has survived unimaginable horror die to it?

 

Lame as .

 

I don’t care how old he is. That’s dumb.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Ima respectfully disagree.

 

Dante surviving is endemic of everything wrong with the new lore, where everyone of even mild importance is completely invulnerable.

 

The 13th Black Crusade has happened. And the Wrath of Magnus. And the Devastation of Baal. We've had a hundred-year long crusade with Guilliman leading Imperial forces against the now-freed but disorderly hordes of Chaos, and a hundred year period of isolation from the Imperium in the systems across the rift. Apparently the "only war" aspect has ramped up.

 

But nobody has died. Not Abaddon, not Calgar, nor Dante nor Logan nor Eldrad. Khârn, Lucius, Typhus, Ahriman, Huron, Erebus, Kor Phaeron. Helbrecht, Seth, Mephiston, Kantor, Azrael, Shrike, Tu'Shan, Vulkan Hestan, Bjorn, Jubal, Sicarius. Yarrick, :cussing Creed, Mortarion, Lorgar, Magnus, Angron, Fulgrim, Perturabo, nobody has died.

 

Atop that, we have dead things being actively revived. Guilliman, Silent Sisters. Dorn and Valdor have been "vanished" so we can have them back too if we need them.

 

It's frankly unbelievable.

 

Remember Alexis Polux? Rad dude, thicc boi, lead the Crimson Fists for 800 years before getting poisoned, used sheer determination to advise his warriors on how to win before succumbing. That is how you tell me someone was badass in a galaxy of "only war." If characters aren't fragile then their accomplishments mean literally nothing. This "crossing the primaris rubicon is super dangerous" BS is empty risk in an attempt to be slightly less transparent about selling new models.

 

So don't worry, Dante will live and he'll get a shiny new model and a few new characters may be invented to fail just to pay lip-service to the "dangerous" aspect. God forbid the demands of this eternal war actually claim any lives. People can complain about the Horus Heresy's slide toward cape comic level antics and plot-armour, (and it's definitely to blame for it infecting 40k), bat damn if the modern setting doesn't have it soooooo much worse.

 

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I agree that everyone and their grandmother surviving the Rubicon is indicative of what’s wrong...

 

...but at this point it’s going to be surprising who doesn’t survive. If it was Calgar* was the only person to ever survive the Rubicon, that would be one thing (then we could just complain about the Mary Sues like normal). But since we’ve had Calgar, Khan, Mephiston, Shrike, etc...

 

...it’s kind of lame to have some truly epic ones not survive.

 

[Indefragable]

  On 12/14/2019 at 3:39 PM, Roomsky said:

 

  On 12/12/2019 at 6:10 PM, Indefragable said:

 

Response to @Blindhamster’s spoilers:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

If they kill off Dante in something so undignified as crossing the Rubicon I’m out. That would be everything conceivably wrong with this new lore...

 

...and I don’t just say that since he’s my boy. You have every Tom, Dick, and Harry possible crossing the rubicon, this thing that is supposedly incredibly dangerous, just fine, then you have one of the greatest heroes the Imperium has ever known who has survived unimaginable horror die to it?

 

Lame as .

 

I don’t care how old he is. That’s dumb.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Ima respectfully disagree.

 

Dante surviving is endemic of everything wrong with the new lore, where everyone of even mild importance is completely invulnerable.

 

The 13th Black Crusade has happened. And the Wrath of Magnus. And the Devastation of Baal. We've had a hundred-year long crusade with Guilliman leading Imperial forces against the now-freed but disorderly hordes of Chaos, and a hundred year period of isolation from the Imperium in the systems across the rift. Apparently the "only war" aspect has ramped up.

 

But nobody has died. Not Abaddon, not Calgar, nor Dante nor Logan nor Eldrad. Khârn, Lucius, Typhus, Ahriman, Huron, Erebus, Kor Phaeron. Helbrecht, Seth, Mephiston, Kantor, Azrael, Shrike, Tu'Shan, Vulkan Hestan, Bjorn, Jubal, Sicarius. Yarrick, :cussing Creed, Mortarion, Lorgar, Magnus, Angron, Fulgrim, Perturabo, nobody has died.

 

Atop that, we have dead things being actively revived. Guilliman, Silent Sisters. Dorn and Valdor have been "vanished" so we can have them back too if we need them.

 

It's frankly unbelievable.

 

Remember Alexis Polux? Rad dude, thicc boi, lead the Crimson Fists for 800 years before getting poisoned, used sheer determination to advise his warriors on how to win before succumbing. That is how you tell me someone was badass in a galaxy of "only war." If characters aren't fragile then their accomplishments mean literally nothing. This "crossing the primaris rubicon is super dangerous" BS is empty risk in an attempt to be slightly less transparent about selling new models.

 

So don't worry, Dante will live and he'll get a shiny new model and a few new characters may be invented to fail just to pay lip-service to the "dangerous" aspect. God forbid the demands of this eternal war actually claim any lives. People can complain about the Horus Heresy's slide toward cape comic level antics and plot-armour, (and it's definitely to blame for it infecting 40k), bat damn if the modern setting doesn't have it soooooo much worse.

 

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I agree that everyone and their grandmother surviving the Rubicon is indicative of what’s wrong...

 

...but at this point it’s going to be surprising who doesn’t survive. If it was Calgar* was the only person to ever survive the Rubicon, that would be one thing (then we could just complain about the Mary Sues like normal). But since we’ve had Calgar, Khan, Mephiston, Shrike, etc...

 

...it’s kind of lame to have some truly epic ones not survive.

 

[rookie40K]

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I certain percentage of marines do not survive the rubicon.....and lbattles. I have no issue with the select few heroes that have managed to survive countless battles, whether it be via the emperor looking over, sheer will, and/or skill, lore wise making it through the rubicon. Besides if I love Ultramarines and get Calgar, I think it only fair Space Wolves fans get Ragnar as an example for game/hobby. Maybe there should never been a rubicon option for regular marines, but because there is I’m going to focus on the exciting new models and see positive in the lore. Don’t get me wrong, I do see the points made in the complaints. It’s just perspective. No disrespect to anyone’s views, maybe I’m speaking out of fear that GW will listen and Dante won’t survive.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Kelborn

[b1soul]

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I think Dante should merge with the Sanguinor while attempting to cross. I don't think he should die just so that someone important dies on the Rubicon.

I think they could've killed off a few of the named captain-level characters to make the point. I would like to see something significant come out of the golden figure destiny involving Dante.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Kelborn

[Kelborn]

May I remind you that this book isn't released for the wider community as of now?

That being said, I kindly ask that all of you use the spoiler tags until then.

 

Topics Like

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Dante surviving or dying or a sentient Hive mind

 

Is still heavy stuff for some.

 

I've edited certain posts but from now on, keep that in mind.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Kelborn

[DarkChaplain]

Isn't the thread already marked as a spoiler thread via its title to begin with? "Spoilers incoming" is pretty self-explanatory. Doesn't really help that the novel is set before Psychic Awakening 3: Blood of Baal, which shows many/most of the results from this one, like Mephiston's new primaris model and the Hivemind's beef, so many things have been spoiled by GW's marketing to begin with, and have been up for grabs for two weeks now. Even the new Mephiston novel is set after this stuff and references it, leaving a hole in the timeline.

 

But then, that's just me wondering what the point really is anymore, considering the book probably won't be out til summer at the earliest, and next winter more likely, with other stuff already taking it for granted.

[Kelborn]

Still, I refer to the BL posting guidelines, which were updated due to a larger discussion about spoilers and the usage of tags, etc. in 2017.

 

 

I'll quote the following "spoilers are going to appear but should be hidden by the "spoiler" BBCode".

 

You are probably right about the releasing schedule and such. Nonetheless, this is about a novel released about a month ago for a "semi" exclusive audience.

 

Thus, we should (at least) wait with a clear discussion for a while longer.

 

I, for one, am absolutely not interested in those spoilers. Clicking and reading them won't hurt my experience of a book I will never read. Nonetheless, there are other brothers and the wider internet community (those, who secretly follow this board), who may have an issue about a certain topics being talked about openly. Clicking on a spoiler tag is their very own decision and another pair of shoes.

 

Let's have them the decision if they want to read something or not, eh?

[Knockagh]

Ive had this on the shelf since Christmas and I’ve only got round to reading it. Crazy that the regular edition hasn’t been released yet.

Guy continues to impress me with every book he pumps out. Dante and all the blood angels are just superb under his control. The conversations with the fleet admiral are so enjoyable to read. Cawls emissary is another example how Guy is doing the impossible and making mechanicum throughly readable. More treats from the imperium nihilus and the beating heart of the blood angels are revealed.

The battle scene at the start is the only low point. It just goes on a bit too long for me. I scan read a few pages which I’ve never done in a Haley novel.

Some good loose threads are left at the end so obviously there is more coming. The nihilis is without a doubt my favourite place for stories within the current storyline. It has a really desperate feel to it.

Tried not to include any spoilers here.

[The Red Thirst]

  On 7/23/2020 at 8:08 PM, Knockagh said:

Crazy that the regular edition hasn’t been released yet.

tell me about it, seeing this thread again got me all excited thinking it was out.... shame on you Knockagh /jk