On the application of niche armor, or: I have a Macharius an

[Theradrussian]

Returning guard player here, spurred on by finally cracking the paint scheme I want for my troops last night, thanks to the advice of a friend. Long story short, I now feel that I should be able to make enough infantry units painted to a good standard to enable me to play guard. Plus, a friend is just getting into 40K with sisters, so I have someone to game with that isn’t all about WAAC (sadly the local meta seems very, very into that…)

 

Anyhow, that brings me to my actual question/request for advice.

 

I’m a sucker for the more niche/rare/silly vehicles and armaments of the 40k universe. As such, I’m trying to make a themed army and looking for advice, both from a lore perspective and a “If you do that you’re guaranteed to get wiped off the table, thus ruining the fun for all involved” (we like challenging games, not stomps - wastes the time of both players in the case of the latter). I’d be looking at game sizes off 500 to 1,500, maybe expanding later.

 

As a basis, these are some of the things I would like to include:

 

• One tank commander, and one company commander on foot
• A Macharius Vulcan
• An Atlas recovery vehicle
• An officer of the fleet
• Some sort of aerial asset – considering buying a thunderbolt heavy
• Some (read: 1-3) commissars
• Regular squads with the bare bones (lasguns only), with special weapon/veteran squads bringing the cooler guns
• Some form of arty, currently eyeing the Manticore
• Maybe some inquisitorial assets, though not sure how I would go about introducing them in a practical sense (still getting to grips with detachments)

 

In effect, I’m looking to give the impression of a rag-tag, tough as nails battlegroup, formed out of whatever happened to be knocking around the stores at the time (yes yes, the most original idea ever). The idea behind the choice of the Valhallan doctrine and the inclusion of commissars was meant to reflect that, with the niche vehicles implying “this is what the munitorum had left – now go make do”.

 

As a starting point, I’m painting up 3 line squads to give me a reliable core to a battalion, but as to the rest….I’m drawing a blank. So any ideas pertaining to list ideas, means to emphasise the them I’m going for, recommendations on wargear and relics, all that good stuff is welcome.

[WarriorFish]

You mention painting models but don't provide pictures... the commissariat does not approve be sure to correct this omission soon soldier :P I recommend starting with Battlescribe, it will let you play around with lists easily. A start on a Battalion is a good idea, get the basics down. 8th is shooting heavy so you need numbers to weather the storm somewhat, so when in doubt add Infantry Squads ;)

 

The Guard codex is in a pretty good place, with good options and viability so there's room for your armour and artillery. This month's White Dwarf has just updated the Inquisition too so it's a good time to be perusing them :) At 500pts the game is a big skewed so I wouldn't worry about it too much other than getting decent numbers on the table, but for 1500 you'll be looking at 4-6 Infantry squads as while they don't kill a great deal they're an essential line of defence. As ever the tanks and artillery does the heaviest work, so keeping them shooting should be high on your agenda.

[Theradrussian]

I'll be correcting as soon as I am able! I'm hoping to have enough time to churn out a fireteam of men for a group photo this afternoon, but I guess I could post some of the men who gave their lives in service to the Imperium by being color scheme test minis.... 

 

I've spent a bit of time on my lunchbreak toying with battlescribe - thank the Emperor that such a tool exists, as browsing errata PDFs, chapter approved copies, the codex, and supplement stuff to cross-reference it all sounds like a form of torture to me!

As a rule of thumb, keeping infantry squads as bare-bones as possible is the general recommendation, correct?

 

I'm also planning a sentinel or two to test my scheme for vehicles. Are they considered trash or somewhat viable? As I understand if they move they are shooting on a 5+ at best? Seems then a flamer/melee sacrificial scout sentinel seems best, but I'd love to hear from some veterans of the front!

[HallofStovokor]

I'd recommend that the only aerial vehicles you get be a valkyrie or vulture. Vulture gunship is good, whereas the valkyrie is not forge world so it's affordable. You actually need several company commanders just to be playable. Our infantry squads suck on their own, but company commanders make them great. My biggest problem with what you want to use however, is that a significant portion is forge world. Those models are very expensive and they're not in the codex.

 

Our codex is pretty good, although not on the level of Space Marines 2.0. Our best units are: Infantry squad, Company Commander, Tank Commander, Basilisk, Wyvern, Manticore, mortar squad, Bullgryns, and Astropath. The Lord Commissar is pretty good at melee if you equip one properly. I highly recommend getting between 6-10 infantry squads if you plan to have 2000 point games. At 1000 points or more, I won't field an army with less than 6 infantry squads.

 

Things to avoid are: Command Squads, Wyrdvanes, Vanquisher and Eradicator russ variants, and Crusaders. These models all suck and never do anything.

[Theradrussian]

@HallofStovokor: I appreciate the direct and honest assessment of some of the assets available to the Guard - I'm a bit sad to hear command squads aren't worth much, but I can (hopefully) compensate that by putting my more converted troops into veteran squads. Those can actually achieve something, right?

I actually wouldn't mind a vulture, simply because I have a thing for big rotary firearms. I think my biggest reason for saying thunderbolt over valk variant is ease of transport (luckily I have enough of a hobby budget to fit a thunderbolt, and I already own a Vulcan. An atlas is halfway through being converted, and I may do the same with a Salamander command vehicle).

 

Seems I'll need more line infantry than I first presumed - good thing I took the effort to test a paint shceme before ordering in 60 cadians!

[WarriorFish]

I like my infantry to be mobile and cheap, so I give them assault weapons. Flamers are a classic and always useful especially on overwatch, but the grenade launcher is also a good choice. I've long enjoyed their versatility and now they cost very little so are great additions. So while the squad might be cheap and not last long spending a little on giving them a bit more punch is worth it I've found. If you have plenty of squads then maybe a couple kept bare bones to run as pickets, but such is the small cost of upgrading it's unlikely to be a thing! :P

 

Veteran Squads are not in the best of places unfortunately; just as squishy as an Infantry Squad and a higher target priority for their BS3+ and extra weapons. They could do better if you've plenty of infantry, or hopping out of a Chimera to blast something. I've generally replaced their role with Stormies (Scions) for application of effective special weaponry where I need it, though that said there's much to be said for the long reach of tanks and artillery ;)

[Theradrussian]

Ah well, so in summary, grenade launchers and flamers have a place, but stuff like meltas, plasmas, sniper rifles is probably best left out, and those roles of "hit the enemy's big things before they come close" is generally done better by the armored elements?

I have a few scions, but will likely stick to the oldschool kasrkin as I have enough for a couple of squads, and their aesthetic somehow works better for me.

[WarriorFish]

The only thing the Kasrkin don't have is the volley gun, but that's a bit niche so it's not a big deal :) Sniper rifles are nice and cheap so you can dot them around, for example if you have plenty of infantry squads one or two that won't get the chance to/need to close to hang back on an objective firing pot shots off is handy. Don't expect it to do much though, if you want snipers better to go in number (and/or look at Ratlings).

 

Plasma and melta are great weapons, but more pricey so you generally want them on a better platform. Stormies have BS3+ and a 4+ save which goes a long way here. My order of battle it usually as follows:

1. Infantry hold/advance to picket as required.
2. When the enemy closes, infantry hold/advance to keep them at bay at the least. Appropriate weapon squads engage targets, if present Stormies included.
3. Any unengaged attempt to finish off/engage enemy elements, and take objectives as required - Stormies in particular to find and eliminate targets or take cheeky objectives.

This usually reflects the turn, but depends on how "fast" the game goes. Non-infantry elements do their thing depending on role, so tanks and artillery will engage priority targets and pretty much keep it up in ideal situations. You can move and disengage them as needed during the game as things change.

 

The biggest guns are mounted on vehicles for Guard predominately, so this is where the biggest killing is done. Your troops mostly focus on letting the armour do its job :P This is all the more so given that Heavy Weapon Squads are sadly quite vulnerable to D2 weaponry (or just small arms even), but this generally means you focus on the cheap aspect. Mortars and Heavy Bolters have long been my favourite here :)

[Hoots]

Ah well, so in summary, grenade launchers and flamers have a place, but stuff like meltas, plasmas, sniper rifles is probably best left out, and those roles of "hit the enemy's big things before they come close" is generally done better by the armored elements?

 

I have a few scions, but will likely stick to the oldschool kasrkin as I have enough for a couple of squads, and their aesthetic somehow works better for me.

 

The commissariat approves!

 

That all sounds sensible to me. I'd also point you in the direction of the Vigilus Defiant book. Theres a few decent detachments and wargear options in there that will work nicely on the kind of forces you seem to be compiling. My own force has limited vehicles but I'm making use of tank commanders and rules from vigilus (on my basilisk) to make them better and aesthetically that reflects my feeling that they represent a crack team of armoured company veterans supporting my massed infantry.  I'm also enjoying playing with bullgryns moving up the middle of the board, they take a ton of fire power to remove or they can wreak havoc. Have a priest hang around near by to give them an extra attack or make them harder to kill by having near by astropaths.... the options are hard to cover but basically it sounds like you're thinking along the right lines and will end up with an interesting and fun force. 

 

good luck, enjoy and remember pictures for the Emperor!!