TorvaldTheMild Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Anyone else think it would be cool to have a DKK HH novel as they turned traitor at the time. I'd love to here how it happened and apart from Tallarn there isn't that many guard focused novels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheywood Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 That sounds appealing. More human focused novels from the margins of the Heresy in general would be fine by me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5431108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boytoy Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 pretty sure they only turned traitor around m39/40, so far after the heresy. would be neat to see what they were like before they nuked their planet into a rad-waste tho! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5431111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheywood Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 pretty sure they only turned traitor around m39/40, so far after the heresy. would be neat to see what they were like before they nuked their planet into a rad-waste tho! Yeah a quick check of Lexicanum confirms this. I’d read about the Krieg civil war regardless of when it took place, though I think you’d need to look at the misery of Krieg present as well to present a proper contrast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5431122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 The Vostroyans were the ones who "turned traitor" and have spent all time since trying to redeem themselves during the Heresy, Krieg's rebellion happened much, much later. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5431132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorvaldTheMild Posted November 21, 2019 Author Share Posted November 21, 2019 I would have sworn DKK turned during the HH. Well you learn something new every day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5431135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Sacrifice Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 I'm not sure they existed during the Heresy... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5433066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockagh Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Aside from the timeline error. An origin story for the DKoK would be great. The few stories we have on the Kreig have always left me wanting more. A trilogy on their origins would do nicely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5433144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 I feel like the timeline could make it a bit of a nightmare, though. Also "we will do alarming things to our women for the sake of fertility, so that centuries in the future, we will return to the surface and send nameless soldiers to die in the Emperor's name!" would be an... interesting epilogue. Actually, the Death Korps strike me as a difficult faction to portray unless you use external characters for the POV. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5433190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 The one book I've read about them was entirely from the viewpoint of external characters, though one came pretty close to being considered a Kriegsman. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5433204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 It would be kinda hard to do a novel where the central character has no personality whatsoever. They don't even really have names, just identification numbers, as their whole culture is built around the idea that the individual doesn't matter, that they exist solely to expunge the stain on their worlds honour in the eyes of the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5433457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockagh Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 It would be kinda hard to do a novel where the central character has no personality whatsoever. They don't even really have names, just identification numbers, as their whole culture is built around the idea that the individual doesn't matter, that they exist solely to expunge the stain on their worlds honour in the eyes of the Emperor. Of course they have personality. They are human it’s not possible to be human and have no personality. We are a pretty diverse lot. The mask is just a mask it creates a look of uniformity but underneath they are still men. Even the genetic tinkering won’t eradicate personality. They aren’t robots or animals. @bluntbalde, the people of kreigs treatment of their women is extremely fitting for the 40k galaxy. The 40k galaxy is unkind, uncaring and throughly nasty. Human rights have been swept away with all progress, there are only chinks of honour and goodness left. That’s what makes good stories the little beams of light in the dark. I’m totally opposed to inserting our 21st century rights and equalities into the 40k galaxy, it’s ridiculous. The whole galaxy is oppressive the empire survives because it oppresses and uses people as disposable commodities. It ain’t supposed to be pretty. Grimdark Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5433480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 My point is that it doesn't make for much of an engaging or rousing epilogue to a story about the fall and rise of Krieg. It would just be a slog, which might be thematically appropriate but equates to the literary equivalent of drone metal. If my problem was with grimdark, I wouldn't be in the BL subforum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5433496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 You'd be surprised how much being raised from birth in an ultra-authoritarian, militaristic environment literally designed to shape you into an unthinking cog can change that, Knockagh. Hell, just take a look at the effects some real-world cults have had on their members. The fluff we're given on the DKoK repeatedly tells us that they don't have individual personalities, or are at least all incredibly similar to each other. Even the names given to command elements are only an affectation to allow for easier interaction with external organizations. They're a religious death-cult, the key tenets of which are the utter insignificance of the individual, that their entire purpose in life is to die for the Emperor, beyond even the indoctrination of the usual Imperial bureaucracy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5433531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa.logan Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 In the book Dead Men Walking, they are expected to throw their special weapons away if they are shot by Gauss weapons in order for them to be used by others, and they somehow actually manage to do this , having the presence of mind to do that is simultaneously stupidly implausible and the coolest thing I’ve ever read. I’d say them being part of a death cult is putting it lightly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5433558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Hell, their medics operate under the instruction to only treat those that can stand and walk by themselves, and fire a lasgun. If they're incapable of that, they're put down and their equipment is collected for a soldier capable of using them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5433561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roomsky Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 My point is that it doesn't make for much of an engaging or rousing epilogue to a story about the fall and rise of Krieg. It would just be a slog, which might be thematically appropriate but equates to the literary equivalent of drone metal. If my problem was with grimdark, I wouldn't be in the BL subforum. And what's wrong with drone metal, hmmmmmmm? Joking aside, no amount of depresso can turn me away, bring on the atrocities, as long as it's apparent that's exactly what they are. Assuming this thread has become about a Daeth Korps origin novel, in the right hands it could be a truly wonderful tragedy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5433618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Antipodes Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Would love a DKoK novel, origin or otherwise. Would need a good author to make it work though, due to their fluff. Why stop there though? Come on BL, where's my regiments of renown series? Once a common subject they now seem rare as hens teeth (Hill's Cadian series excepted). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5433666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockagh Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 My point is that it doesn't make for much of an engaging or rousing epilogue to a story about the fall and rise of Krieg. It would just be a slog, which might be thematically appropriate but equates to the literary equivalent of drone metal. If my problem was with grimdark, I wouldn't be in the BL subforum. I think the human spirit will always try and break through, in little bits at least. Death cult, years of nurture and indoctrination can’t make people into robots. The stories will always be in the difference. I think kreig citizens have an immense sense of corporate responsibility or duty which is drummed into them but people can’t be robots....unless they are servitors. And a servitor novel would not be cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5433681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 But then with Krieg you're looking at the absolute extreme of the death cult as outlined by Caerolian. Having distinct enough personalities among Kriegers to carry a story on their own would ironically break with their characterisation as a faction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5433882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa.logan Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Maybe it could do an epic saga, every chapter or so jumping ahead a generation with the personalities of each time period becoming more ground down by conditioning until the last few chapters derail the exploits of the ‘modern’ Death Korps we know and love... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5433887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Would be funny though if their entire History/ culture is basing on once being Horus aligned and be condemned to eternal penalty, thus becoming the Korps we know and love. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5434193 Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfred_the_great Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 DKoK must have enough personality to enable things like their generals and commissars. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5434404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Comissars are sourced from outside Krieg, and are more for mediating between the Kriegers and non-Kriegers than anything. The Commissar main character in what I think was Dead Men Walking notes that every single officer that replaced a deceased one acted in exactly the same way, and their generals were pretty much the same to. The buggers wouldn't even take their assigned shore leave, something the Commissar despairs of, electing to spend tbe whole time training instead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5434416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Yep, Krieg commissars are explicitly noted for having an almost opposite role in Krieg regiments, acting as a restraining force rather than having them to stay and fight. Generals have a bit more personality, but it's noted as being an affectation to allow for easier work alongside other regiments, and they tend to do so via intermediaries. Even their names are just for "external use only". Internally, they still go entirely by their identification number. Their generals are still the exact same fanatical death-cultists as the rest of their military, they just understand that they are called to serve in a different way. They don't miss their family back at home, or want to settle down after the war, etc. They don't really see themselves as people, but as weapons in the war against the Emperors foes. Even the Space Marines have their personal pride and identity, so you couldn't even go with the portrayal of Grimaldus in Helsreach as a starting point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360041-death-korps-of-krieg-hh-novel/#findComment-5434459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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