Mephiston New Rule Thoughts?

[Morticon]

Without going into too much wishlisting, what do you think the rules changes to Mephiston are likely to be? 
 

With his existing stats and the BARE minimum changes, you're looking at:

 

  M 7″ WS 2+ BS 2+ S5 T5 W6 A5 Ld9 Sv 2+

If this happens and little else, I don't see a need to increase his cost.   With Tiggy coming in at a paltry 130 points for FAR more utility, Mephy would have to have some serious buffing to justify moving to more than 160 in the current costing environment. 

I feel he is likely to keep Sanguine Sword as a base, but beyond that, It's really going to be about what the studio wants. 

There could be a return to his (4th?-5th ed?) Toughness 6.   There could also be a built in Wings ability, like before. 

But, all of this is up in the air.  The issue is that if they give him a Wings ability, they remove the need for the Wings power.  So, unless they give him a modified version, or an ability to cast Wings easier, it's going to be one of his main powers anyway. 

 

Mephy isn't a support Character, he is a beatstick (with some helpful supporting powers) -always has been, really.  


Although I hold out in hope, it's my trepidation built up from years of GW dropping the ball with BA rules (as opposed to models, which have almost always been wonderful) that leads me think that there's a very, very strong chance we're going to see completely limited and basic changes to him.....

What do you think? And (remember, with wishlisting to a minimum) what are we likely and possible to see here? 

 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

What if they gave him fleet back? Being able to advance and charge?

 

With most characters becoming utility characters what about an aura?

[Morticon]

 

With most characters becoming utility characters what about an aura?

The fleet one is interesting! Very possible!!! 

 

As far as the aura is concerned, I think if the studio's recent understanding of fluff  is concerned and then relating that understanding to good rules as evidenced by recent studio SM rules, I foresee Mephy being a bit of yolo solo character - focussing on his raw power, rather than abilities to help other BA around him. 

 

What you think?  If he DID have an aura, what would it be? 

[brother_b]

He’s amazing so bad ass his rules should be:

 

Roll a D 6 each turn on a 2+ you win.

 

Seriously though I love that mini.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

 

 

 

With most characters becoming utility characters what about an aura?

The fleet one is interesting! Very possible!!!

 

As far as the aura is concerned, I think if the studio's recent understanding of fluff is concerned and then relating that understanding to good rules as evidenced by recent studio SM rules, I foresee Mephy being a bit of yolo solo character - focussing on his raw power, rather than abilities to help other BA around him.

 

What you think? If he DID have an aura, what would it be?

I think if he gave an aura it would be something like a death mask -1 leadership, or maybe more brutal like +1 attack.

[Djangomatic82]

I'll join in on the speculation.

+1 wound and attack

only 1 of the following

-+1 cast

or

-buff to his FnP

or

-something similar to his transfixing gaze.

nothing else, the only great thing GW will give us for P3 is his sculpt.

[The Unseen]

That's pretty metal.

Love the model. Here's hoping they do his rules more justice than +1 attack.

 

 

[Morticon]

I'll join in on the speculation.

+1 wound and attack

only 1 of the following

-+1 cast

or

-buff to his FnP

or

-something similar to his transfixing gaze.

nothing else, the only great thing GW will give us for P3 is his sculpt.

leaning towards agreeing here. 

[ciggaro]

Extremely disappointed. Mephiston gets +1A and +1W. Nothing else. No changes to lemartes and astorath either. Someone posted pics of their dataslate on reddit

 

Edit. Lemartes and astorath know two other litanies on top of the stock one

[Dumah]

Astorath knows 3(!) additional litanies and can recite 2.

[Panzer]

 

 

Super underwhelming to be honest. Just the general Primaris boost and the Chief Librarian keyword.

Though I guess there's still the possibility of another Mephiston model where he channels the black angel for real so he gets a tasty boost, just like Morathi in AoS. That would be awesome.

[Djangomatic82]

interesting, i was really expecting at least 1 bonus.

Edit: Though it is interesting that they changed his weapon to just Vitarius, maybe there'll be a "Sanguine Sword" power if we get a new school.

Edit 2: I also noticed that the leaked data cards for Astorath and Lemartes are 2 power level lower than their codex counter parts. Here's hoping that means they are getting a points drop.

Edit 3: Hmmmm, Lemartes data card doesn't have the Black rage ability listed.

[RedemptionNL]

interesting, i was really expecting at least 1 bonus.

Yeah, it's a bit disappointing, but somehow I already expected GW to not give more than the bare minimum.

 

Edit: Though it is interesting that they changed his weapon to just Vitarius, maybe there'll be a "Sanguine Sword" power if we get a new school.

Considering it says it knows "powers from the Sanguinary discipline (see Codex Blood Angels)", instead of "(see page X)", I don't think there will be any changes to psychic powers.

 

Edit 3: Hmmmm, Lemartes data card doesn't have the Black rage ability listed.

I'm guessing it's rolled into the 'Chapter Tactic' now, where anyone with the Death Company keyword will gain it.

[SnorriSnorrison]

+++ Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. +++

[Pathstrider]

I’m fine with him (depending on his points cost).

 

Mephiston already had a lot over a “standard” chief librarian and as he was already close combat orientated the +1 A/W is more useful for him.

[Tokugawa]

Mephy was T6 in 5th, because in that version, he could not join infantry unit and thus be targetable.

[Spyros]

As I said on another thread,

I can grudgingly accept the limited upgrade on Mephiston on the grounds that even though he's probably more powerful than Tigurius (who is strong enough to probe the Hive Mind) and fluff-wise he may be getting stronger by the minute, he is trying to contain it so he doesn't let his powers loose.

[RedemptionNL]

Well at least we got an awesome model for Mephiston. His rules may still not really reflect how much of a bad ass he is in the lore, but rules changes over the editions so perhaps his next iteration is more reflective of his strength. Models generally don't get updates for decades.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Interesting they changed being slain to destroyed after shooting on overcharging.

 

The best thing about Mephy is his model. If he stays at his high points costs that's rubbish.

 

But we will still play him anyway.

[RedemptionNL]

Considering he's still Power Level 8, he should be around 160 points (as a rule of thumb, 1 PL equals 20 points). So I wouldn't expect any change in point costs.

[Panzer]

He's solid with his current points cost so a slight boost to his stats should obviously not make him less viable. His Datasheet is just, like so many 40k Datasheets, super uninspired imo.

[Indefragable]

I’m fine with him (depending on his points cost).

 

Mephiston already had a lot over a “standard” chief librarian and as he was already close combat orientated the +1 A/W is more useful for him.

 

The thing is, Mephiston is a special character in the fluff. Not like special snowflake he's "our" guy so he should be special kind of special, but rather a true one-off-will-never-see-his-like-again kind of special. Truly a creature apart from the rest of the entire species. For that reason, his rules seems underwhelming. Just like Dante's rules are underwhelming because of his backstory (of ...ya know....being a "cuss -ing chapter master for over 1000 years), whereas the unenlightened would be like "yea but he has +1A!".

 

On a more personal note, I prefer the design philosophy of making unique characters more powerful/interesting jacking their points up rather than what seems to be the trend of lowering their abilities and points cost, but that's just me.

 

Copy pasta my thoughts from the other thread as well:

 

*****

*If* these leaks are true, so disappointed in Mephiston's "new" rules. Worst case scenario, literally just +1W and +1A.  Can't wait for the warcom article making it seem like Elvis has returned Oprah is handing out free spaceships to everyone on the planet.

 

Not sure what I was realistically expecting, though.

 

The issue (and same with Dante) is that he was underwhelming to begin with based on his lore and this was THE opportunity to rectify that. Instead they give us this. He's not bad in a vacuum, but he's not really as good as he will be made out to be. His character protection is his biggest saving grace, which is ironic for someone known to go off on his own.

 

RedemptionNL, on 21 Nov 2019 - 03:19 AM, said:http://bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_images/carbon_red/snapback.png

And I beleive the new Litanies don't work if you just arrived from reserves, because you need to do it at the start of the battle round. Considering most of our chaplains come with jump packs that's a definite downside; makes keeping them in reserve even less appealing.

 

^This.

 

So as of now (without seeing the rest of the rules, so maybe we got Strategems or such), Night Lords are better at assaulting from Deep Strike than we are (they get +2 to charges and 3D6" strategems.

 

(My usual disclaimer of not being jealous of what other people get, but rather annoyed that one of our main shticks may be superceded by other factions).

 

Wassa, on 21 Nov 2019 - 08:06 AM, said:http://bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_images/carbon_red/snapback.png

 

toaae, on 21 Nov 2019 - 01:27 AM, said:http://bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_images/carbon_red/snapback.png

Mephiston's change is the most boring way they could have gone, but his PL didn't change, so maybe his points didn't? In which case, it is still a strict upgrade. Boring, but homie will have 6 attacks on the charge, before psychic powers.

 

Well... Primaris can't ride in drop pods or storm ravens... so he's back to foot slogging it or using the WoS power.

 

Primaris transports are still a bit meh at the moment for us.

 

 

Correct. And so because of that, Mephiston is actually potentially worse off than he was before this upgrade. Let that sink in.

 

It does mean he can use the Impulsor, but the "Assault Vehicle" rule prevents him from charging, unless Wings of Sanguinius gets a re-work that explicitly overrides it somehow.

 

The <Chief Librarian> keyword could be interesting, based on leaks about what that upgrade does for other chapters:

 

Hidden Content

Note: this writeup taken from Goonhammer:

 

"The Chief Librarian is a potent upgrade to a normal Librarian, with the ability to either be better at casting powers from their discipline of choice, or being able to cast from a wider range of powers.

Character Upgrade

This character knows one additional psychic power from their chosen discipline, and can attempt to deny one additional power in their opponent’s psychic phase. This upgrade is really about the additional deny and unlocking traits and relics – many psychic disciplines don’t have three powers worth knowing, and there’s no additional cast.

Wings Note: Not all Disciplines have three good powers but some certainly do – White Scars are going to love this, even before considering High Scholar of the Librarius.

Warlord Traits

• Psychic Mastery: This warlord gains +1 on their first psychic test of a turn. More reliable casting is great, even if only on the first power – just make sure to front load the more difficult or important power.A
• High Scholar of the Librarius: This warlord can know psychic powers from any discipline they have access to, rather than only one. This takes great advantage of knowing an additional power as Chief Librarian, as they can grab two good powers from their chapter list and still tack in Might of Heroes or Null Zone. A"

 

 

...which would be weird, since the leaked datasheet still shows him as only being able to manifest two powers (one of my pet peeves for a long time, grumble grumble). He knows three powers, so that just puts him in line with other chapters' Chief Librarians. Not sure how the WLT's will effect Mephy, though it would suck if he had to be Warlord to unlock the good stuff, especially if we don't get any "give another character a WLT" strategems.

 

******

 

<pause>

 

These are just leaks and I will withhold full and final judgement until the full picture of the official rules and combinations appears (there could be some drastic changes to baseline BA rules with doctrines or such that could change my initial knee jerk reaction).

 

******

Addendum:

Those pics look more like cards than pages in a book like a codex or supplement.

 

Edit: Addendum

[Panzer]

 

Addendum:

Those pics look more like cards than pages in a book like a codex or supplement.

 

Because that's what they are. ;) 

[Charlo]

He's good enough. Knowing three powers makes him very versatile.

 

I'm hoping for an update on our discipline but I doubt it.

[Indefragable]

 

 

Addendum:

Those pics look more like cards than pages in a book like a codex or supplement.

 

Because that's what they are.

 

 

.....right.....but why?

 

Mephiston I can see having a datacard in his new model's box, but does that mean there's re-packs of Lemartes and Astorath?

 

That's my confusion.

 

He's good enough. Knowing three powers makes him very versatile.

 

I'm hoping for an update on our discipline but I doubt it.

 

...but he can only cast two. I will walk back some of my earlier complaint, however, based on reviewing the datasheets for Primaris Tigurius, Ezekiel, and Njal and seeing that they all can "only" cast two as well.

 

I am open to the possibility that the Sanguinary discipline has been updated....Shield of Sanguinius going back to its Index version of 4++ would be huge, for example.