Mephiston, Lemartes, Astorath Leaks

[RedemptionNL]

Noticed a minor change - both Lemartes and Astorath’s power levels have been reduced.

Yeah, it got updated to their current point costs. Their point costs got lowered with Chapter Approved, but Power Levels generally only get updated with new datasheets.

[Neuralshock]

I do think the bigger takeaway is that we're likely to get doctrines and confirmed getting litanies. This is massive as they can potentially bring the BA to a whole new level.

 

Limoncello rerolling 7 inch charges is bonkers and I can only imagine how far you can slingshot a 15 man squad on 3d6+2

 

This also makes me wonder why GW was bending over backwards to explicitly say that non-dex marines DIDN'T get doctines and litanies.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I think you guys need to tamper your expectations just a weeeeeeee bit.

 

Mephiston's rules pretty much confirm that we need to pump the breaks on the hype train.

[Wassa]

Mephiston's change is the most boring way they could have gone, but his PL didn't change, so maybe his points didn't? In which case, it is still a strict upgrade. Boring, but homie will have 6 attacks on the charge, before psychic powers.

 

Well... Primaris can't ride in drop pods or storm ravens... so he's back to foot slogging it or using the WoS power.

 

Primaris transports are still a bit meh at the moment for us.

[Indefragable]

*If* these leaks are true, so disappointed in Mephiston's "new" rules. Worst case scenario, literally just +1W and +1A.  Can't wait for the warcom article making it seem like Elvis has returned Oprah is handing out free spaceships to everyone on the planet.

 

Not sure what I was realistically expecting, though.

 

The issue (and same with Dante) is that he was underwhelming to begin with based on his lore and this was THE opportunity to rectify that. Instead they give us this. He's not bad in a vacuum, but he's not really as good as he will be made out to be. His character protection is his biggest saving grace, which is ironic for someone known to go off on his own.

 

And I beleive the new Litanies don't work if you just arrived from reserves, because you need to do it at the start of the battle round. Considering most of our chaplains come with jump packs that's a definite downside; makes keeping them in reserve even less appealing.

 

^This.

 

So as of now (without seeing the rest of the rules, so maybe we got Strategems or such), Night Lords are better at assaulting from Deep Strike than we are (they get +2 to charges and 3D6" strategems.

 

(My usual disclaimer of not being jealous of what other people get, but rather annoyed that one of our main shticks may be superceded by other factions).

 

 

Mephiston's change is the most boring way they could have gone, but his PL didn't change, so maybe his points didn't? In which case, it is still a strict upgrade. Boring, but homie will have 6 attacks on the charge, before psychic powers.

 

Well... Primaris can't ride in drop pods or storm ravens... so he's back to foot slogging it or using the WoS power.

 

Primaris transports are still a bit meh at the moment for us.

 

 

Correct. And so because of that, Mephiston is actually potentially worse off than he was before this upgrade. Let that sink in.

 

It does mean he can use the Impulsor, but the "Assault Vehicle" rule prevents him from charging, unless Wings of Sanguinius gets a re-work that explicitly overrides it somehow.

 

 

******

 

<pause>
 

These are just leaks and I will withhold full and final judgement until the full picture of the official rules and combinations appears (there could be some drastic changes to baseline BA rules with doctrines or such that could change my initial knee jerk reaction).

 

******

Addendum:

Those pics look more like cards than pages in a book like a codex or supplement.

 

Edit: Addendum

Edited November 21, 2019 by Indefragable

[Panzer]

 

Addendum:

Those pics look more like cards than pages in a book like a codex or supplement.

 

Because that's what they are. ;) 

[Karhedron]

This also makes me wonder why GW was bending over backwards to explicitly say that non-dex marines DIDN'T get doctines and litanies.

Probably because they knew that PA would be coming to address these issues a few months down the line. Litanies is a good start and might be enough to get me to finish my custom Astorath conversion.

 

Doctrines would be a whole other new level of sweet but I still remember the disappointment of the 7th edition codex so I will keep my expectations tempered.

[SnorriSnorrison]

 

This also makes me wonder why GW was bending over backwards to explicitly say that non-dex marines DIDN'T get doctines and litanies.

Probably because they knew that PA would be coming to address these issues a few months down the line. Litanies is a good start and might be enough to get me to finish my custom Astorath conversion.Doctrines would be a whole other new level of sweet but I still remember the disappointment of the 7th edition codex so I will keep my expectations tempered.

I’ve also got Astorath half-painted, even used him to some success in a game. He’s a bit converted, too, using way-over-the-top wings for him :D

 

All in all, the barest minimum we can say is that we’ll have access to the Litanies mentioned on page 58 of the PA3 book. Not more, not less. The rules for our characters haven’t changed much, perhaps their point costs will. All is speculation beyond that, and I’ll not get me hopes up.

[Panzer]

 

This also makes me wonder why GW was bending over backwards to explicitly say that non-dex marines DIDN'T get doctines and litanies.

Probably because they knew that PA would be coming to address these issues a few months down the line. Litanies is a good start and might be enough to get me to finish my custom Astorath conversion.

 

Doctrines would be a whole other new level of sweet but I still remember the disappointment of the 7th edition codex so I will keep my expectations tempered.

 

 

If that's the case there was no need to give us Shock Assault via errata either.

[SnorriSnorrison]

 

 

This also makes me wonder why GW was bending over backwards to explicitly say that non-dex marines DIDN'T get doctines and litanies.

 

Probably because they knew that PA would be coming to address these issues a few months down the line. Litanies is a good start and might be enough to get me to finish my custom Astorath conversion.

Doctrines would be a whole other new level of sweet but I still remember the disappointment of the 7th edition codex so I will keep my expectations tempered.

 

If that's the case there was no need to give us Shock Assault via errata either.

Yeah, there is, because all Astartes get it.

Only C:SM got doctrines though, because that’s supposedly the way of the Codex Astartes to fight.

 

It’s a bit of a mixed bag. On the one hand, we’re a codex chapter, but then we don’t get the codex stuff. GW being inconsistent with its rulers is what this is.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

This also makes me wonder why GW was bending over backwards to explicitly say that non-dex marines DIDN'T get doctines and litanies.

Probably because they knew that PA would be coming to address these issues a few months down the line. Litanies is a good start and might be enough to get me to finish my custom Astorath conversion.

Doctrines would be a whole other new level of sweet but I still remember the disappointment of the 7th edition codex so I will keep my expectations tempered.

 

If that's the case there was no need to give us Shock Assault via errata either.

Yeah, there is, because all Astartes get it.

Only C:SM got doctrines though, because that’s supposedly the way of the Codex Astartes to fight.

 

It’s a bit of a mixed bag. On the one hand, we’re a codex chapter, but then we don’t get the codex stuff. GW being inconsistent with its rulers is what this is.

 

But all Astartes seem to get Litanies too (with Chaos getting different ones). There's no real reason for why GW would give us one but not the other if it's all going to be the same anyway. Especially if it turns out that doctrines are going to be the same thing too.

[Frater Antodeniel]

First, i think that Lemartes's Datasheet is pointing towards something already discussed and important, the Black Rage.

 

Since there are no "Black Rage" rule in his profile, but given the fact that he do have the "Death Company" Keyword, it look like that the "Black Rage" will become a Stratagem.

 

It would be logic.

[toaae]

First, i think that Lemartes's Datasheet is pointing towards something already discussed and important, the Black Rage.

 

Since there are no "Black Rage" rule in his profile, but given the fact that he do have the "Death Company" Keyword, it look like that the "Black Rage" will become a Stratagem.

 

It would be logic.

 

Alternatively, Angels of Death could have part like "If the unit has the Death Company keyword, then they also gain the following rule: Black Rage"

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

The Supplement isn't going to have the Sanguinary Discipline in it if these are card versions of pages out of it. Mephiston explicitly references Codex: Blood Angels as of now, which also implies these AREN'T out of any Codex: Blood Angels v2.

[Djangomatic82]

I'm not gonna lie brothers, after sleeping on the changes, I'm feeling kinda salty about all this and that sucks.  Here's hoping his points cost at least stay the same and doesn't go up.

Edit: But yeah, it would be shameful to let ourselves sink into self pity.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Djangomatic82

[SnorriSnorrison]

 

 

 

 

This also makes me wonder why GW was bending over backwards to explicitly say that non-dex marines DIDN'T get doctines and litanies.

 

Probably because they knew that PA would be coming to address these issues a few months down the line. Litanies is a good start and might be enough to get me to finish my custom Astorath conversion.

Doctrines would be a whole other new level of sweet but I still remember the disappointment of the 7th edition codex so I will keep my expectations tempered.

 

If that's the case there was no need to give us Shock Assault via errata either.

Yeah, there is, because all Astartes get it.

Only C:SM got doctrines though, because that’s supposedly the way of the Codex Astartes to fight.

It’s a bit of a mixed bag. On the one hand, we’re a codex chapter, but then we don’t get the codex stuff. GW being inconsistent with its rulers is what this is.

But all Astartes seem to get Litanies too (with Chaos getting different ones). There's no real reason for why GW would give us one but not the other if it's all going to be the same anyway. Especially if it turns out that doctrines are going to be the same thing too.

Yeah, litanies aren’t necessarily a codex thing though. That’s just how all chaplains operate, the mechanic has been changed only.

IIRC chaplains were once part of the word bearers and then spread to other legions.

 

And yeah, I think we might get something in recompense for doctrines, but having those same doctrines would be 5th edition all over again - Blood Angels as C:SM + extra sauce. Despite that, the current doctrines actually work against our play style; having to wait until turn 3 to get better in close combat is...not good when your only chapter tactic is melee focused.

 

Unless we get rolled into C:SM, I wouldn’t expect us to get doctrines. That said, the mentioned inconsistencies of GW make kind of everything an option really.

[keeblerartillery]

I just want to model my Mephiston with sephiroth style black wings now to represent the rage monster in him.

[Jolemai]

I just want to model my Mephiston with sephiroth style black wings now to represent the rage monster in him.

Pretty sure there's a masamune-style blade on Shapeways should you wish to go the whole hog.

[keeblerartillery]

 

I just want to model my Mephiston with sephiroth style black wings now to represent the rage monster in him.

Pretty sure there's a masamune-style blade on Shapeways should you wish to go the whole hog.

I actually prefer conversion world - but they sent me a special sculpt not on their website that I think might have a new home...

[Blindhamster]

 

 

 

 

 

This also makes me wonder why GW was bending over backwards to explicitly say that non-dex marines DIDN'T get doctines and litanies.

Probably because they knew that PA would be coming to address these issues a few months down the line. Litanies is a good start and might be enough to get me to finish my custom Astorath conversion.

Doctrines would be a whole other new level of sweet but I still remember the disappointment of the 7th edition codex so I will keep my expectations tempered.

 

If that's the case there was no need to give us Shock Assault via errata either.

Yeah, there is, because all Astartes get it.

Only C:SM got doctrines though, because that’s supposedly the way of the Codex Astartes to fight.

It’s a bit of a mixed bag. On the one hand, we’re a codex chapter, but then we don’t get the codex stuff. GW being inconsistent with its rulers is what this is.

But all Astartes seem to get Litanies too (with Chaos getting different ones). There's no real reason for why GW would give us one but not the other if it's all going to be the same anyway. Especially if it turns out that doctrines are going to be the same thing too.

Yeah, litanies aren’t necessarily a codex thing though. That’s just how all chaplains operate, the mechanic has been changed only.

IIRC chaplains were once part of the word bearers and then spread to other legions.

 

And yeah, I think we might get something in recompense for doctrines, but having those same doctrines would be 5th edition all over again - Blood Angels as C:SM + extra sauce. Despite that, the current doctrines actually work against our play style; having to wait until turn 3 to get better in close combat is...not good when your only chapter tactic is melee focused.

 

Unless we get rolled into C:SM, I wouldn’t expect us to get doctrines. That said, the mentioned inconsistencies of GW make kind of everything an option really.

 

 

Blood Angels didn't get word bearer chaplains as we already had Wardens, so refused to take word bearers.

[brother_b]

Sweet. My old mephiston model just got a new wound and extra attack. If this is it for rules I’ll probably pass on the new model.

[Panzer]

lol the new model looks so much better, even if he didn't get anything new I'd buy it. 

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

I'm extrapolating Death Visions stratagem will disappear base on the way Lemartes data sheet is worded, which would suck :cuss .