Ork Rumors

[XIXWYRMEXIX]

Been looking at the chapter approved rumors thread and was wondering what other ork players thought. Obviously you need to take the rumors with a grain of salt (or a spoonful) and it is just two things leaked for us but they could be changing lists, tactics and options. I saw toaa was active in the thread and I personally agreed with all the posts he made (even the ones that had nothing to do with the boyz). 

 

Grots possibly going up to 4 pts? I find this crazy myself. They are the worst troops in the game by far, other than being a meat shield and capturing objectives in the back line these little guys are terrible for anything else. Do not get me wrong I love them in the fluff sense and think they are cool, in game sense they don't do anything other than the two basic things I listed. They do not even get access to clan cultures, most special rules or any stratagems other than ones specifically mentioning them. As an aside I always wished GW would have given them access to a rifle, like an ork version of a lasgun. Then they would be more interesting and useful. Thoughts on this possibility?

 

Losing all units without models to legends? Is this what I think it is? The closing out of index units? If so, this will shake up our lists and the possibilities and options we have. Thoughts on this? Or correct me if I am assuming the wrong thing from this statement. 

[Warhead01]

I'm not a fan of grots costing more points, they already cost too much. 4 points is a grot shield and detachment tax. 
Units going away-ish. BoLS has been crying that all the Index book need to go away for a long time so I guess we all saw this happening at some point. This is another reason I do not like this living rule book edition. Outside of, well in a friendly environment I would think people could still use any models they have rules for easily enough. I read moved to legions and hear, power levels or no points at all. 
There is still a chance for some of those old models to make a return to Codex Orks in 9th edition. It's a slim chance. 

[toaae]

I'm not going to over-think it right now. The rumors for CA have no way of being verified, and haven't come from the reliable rumor sources, so I only entertain them as thought experiments. We'll see if any of what they've said comes to pass.

 

Warhammer Legends is a bigger concern. I'm happy the index units will get another pass, so pick up Dakka! Dakka! Dakka! and new keywords, like Speedfreekz, so that's nice. It's just unfortunate that GW never felt a need to produce miniatures for our iconic HQs. I believe this is probably due to how creative the Ork community was, and the model designers never felt a pressing urgency. It is what it is. I do play in a competitive community, so I suspect that despite assurances that the Legends will be playable, I will not be running them in most of my games, as they are often tournaments or practice games for upcoming tournaments.

All that said, if the Red Gobbo is anything to go off of, we see we get points and I do think there will still be a place for these models on many table-tops. It just won't be in tournaments.

[XIXWYRMEXIX]

I know they can not be verified, thats why I said a grain/spoonful of salt. I am just looking at it as a thought experiment. in the last 21 years of me being involved in this game this is nothing new really, just the wheel going round again. That said, the rumors are interesting to think about, they do change what I might be building or not.

 

Yeah, our iconic HQs not being in production is a bit saddening. I will miss my big mek, and the big gunz. I have always played in a very competitive environment in my local group and I will be doing tournaments now. It will probably be roughly a year before I do, as I need to physically rebuild and put in a lot of games regularly again. I will also need to aquire some more units (which is more money).  Also limited by money to localish stuff (I will not be flying out of state), though I am in so cali, so I can do most of anything in so cali and vegas. 

 

Is that what they are doing for the "old" models in 40k? A Warhammer Legends type thing? So they give points values for these older models and they are still legal? I knew you do tourneys, so I am assuming you know the scene. Are legacy models still able to be used in tourneys? Or are they regulated to "fun" games? Or is it a tourney by tourney thing with each having their own rules? I have not looked into it as I have been busy going through stuff, rebuilding, and deciding what my new basic list might be. Other than my boyz I have 6-7 other armies and 12-15k in points in those armies. So I have been busy sifting through all that.

[toaae]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply I didn't want to discuss the changes. 4 points grots would certainly suck, especially competitively. It would be losing another 60-90+ points. I can't justify it, and I have to hope no one at GW was dumb enough to actually push it through.

 

So, for the old models, they are being moved to Warhammer Legends, which is just an official "retired model" list. From the Red Gobbo post, this gives us an idea of what will happen to our beloved units:

 

The Red Gobbo miniature is available for a limited time, and so his rules fall into “Legends” status –  full and complete rules (including points, if that is how you like to balance your games) free to download online forever...

 

...Because he’s not a permanent part of the range, his points won’t feature in Chapter Approved updates, and they’re not recommended for competitive events (the meta is just NOT READY for a red-clad grot with a star on a stick).

 

Da Red Gobbo will be joined by other Warhammer Legends this December, alongside the release of Chapter Approved 2019, where rules for other venerable denizens of the far future whose miniatures are no longer available will find their permanent home.

From this, I gather that we can expect updated datasheets and points for these index units. For anyone who's community is fully open to continuing to use Warhammer Legends units, it'll actually be a short-term boon. However, they won't address the units in future balance updates, so if they release something that breaks a Warhammer Legend, or something that a Legend makes totally broken, well, they won't be fixing that.

Edited November 24, 2019 by toaae

[XIXWYRMEXIX]

Oh no worries dude. I tend to not assume much in text discussions, alot of nuances are lost in this medium. As for grots, yeah that's what I was thinking as well. I actually rarely took them in the old editions because to me they never seemed worth their points, I'd rather have a squad of 10 boyz who can actually do something. I was actually excited to see them cheaper in 8th, with specific rules for them. In my current theory list I have some, I will probably still use them as they are still cheap enough to fill my brigade detachment. I have just 2 10 grot squads so still cheap enough.

 

Thanks for info on the Legends and the red gobbo quote. I had not seen that. That explains it all. I figured this would be coming which is why I am building my new boss from the codex. I will just miss the big mek w/kff and lobbas really. I think a boss with no MA options is a bummer too. I will have to switch over to big mek in MA w/kff I suppose. Move over to mek gunz too. I will adapt. 

[tvih]

As for legends I'm still sad that warboss biker got removed and never got a model (other than the FW stupidly-expensive-yet-cool one I guess). Yeah, we got the Wartrike and it's cool too, but I would've liked to keep the actual biker boss with "proppa" weapon options as well. It'd take less space to transport too :P Still, at least I'm thankful they didn't remove nob bikers - and sure as heck they don't in the future - despite technically there not being a separate kit for them to meet the minimum requirements for a unit from a single box.

[Kierdale]

Aye, it’s the loss (to legends, albeit) of the warboss (and painboy) on bike that disappoint me the most.

[XIXWYRMEXIX]

Alot of people will miss the boss on bike. I made one but only used it once (haha I just looked at his dead body missing arms legs and head but still attached to partial bike), I used the mega armored boss more often. It is a bit silly when you think about it, our boss can no longer get things (that he used to) that tons of other lesser units can get. Cybork body nope, but nobs can, bike, nope but nobs can, mega armor, nope but nobs and meks can... etc etc. Our main leader the toughest of the toughest can get a 4+ save at best. and has no access to half the wargear his lessor minions have.  At least we still have nobz on bikes. I did have a unit of those for a while and used them off and on, those guys are crazy badass.

 

I might even keep taking the lobbas as a unit as long as I can even in the legends category. Take them until they break them and are no longer even usable. I loved having lobbas. No other ork unit has indirect fire. If you mass enough of them they are great for giving out wounds per turn without exposing them. And the mek w/kff is a must have for me and my green tide. I am footslogging across the table top, without that guy getting across the board is much more painful. And it looks worse to do in this edition of the game. I NEED that guy. and I do not want to buy a morkanaught to get this effect, I will end up getting a mek in MA, but even this guy is not great as he moves 4. And in this edition I think I need 2 of them now.

[Kierdale]

I’d never really looked at the big gunz since returning to Orks (last time I had Orks I had a hop-splat field gun and the whatsitcalled catapult!) until you mentioned them. 40 points for the lobba and crew is nice...and I do have bitz lying about. Thematic, too.

I’m tempted to make some. I rarely game and never competitively anyway...

[XIXWYRMEXIX]

The lobbas are now only 8 points a lobba now as per index xenos 2. Not 40. I am definitely going to still use some. Like I said above I might keep using them until GW itself breaks them. I mention them because I used to use them often enough. I like them. As I said they are the only indirect fire unit we have/had. hopefully people see they are now in the legends and sell them cheap on ebay, I will pick up more. My gaming group has always played competitively, both internally and with others outside it, even our fun games tend to be that way. 

[Magos Takatus]

Meks with KFF's are on the list? Well that's just pants. Painting up Big Meks was really fun and they would have been pretty important to my Dread mob. I think they need to reintroduce some of these entries when they get round to a new model. Then again, they probably need to treat all legacy units the same. It's a shame we are losing key HQ units to free up space to make three different Battlewagon entries.

[Warhead01]

The lobbas are now only 8 points a lobba now as per index xenos 2. Not 40. I am definitely going to still use some. Like I said above I might keep using them until GW itself breaks them. I mention them because I used to use them often enough. I like them. As I said they are the only indirect fire unit we have/had. hopefully people see they are now in the legends and sell them cheap on ebay, I will pick up more. My gaming group has always played competitively, both internally and with others outside it, even our fun games tend to be that way. 

Wait, the lobba may be 8 points but you still have to pay for the grots and the big gun platform to put it on.  Just looked, it was 8 for the big gun, 18 for the lobba and 4 for 2 grot gunners minimum before any newer points adjustments from any CA points changes. The minimum used to be 28 points each.  Points may have been adjusted in 2017? Not seeing anything in CA 2018. 

On the off chance they are 2 power that could come out to 40 points. (If I recall it was a 20 to 1 points to power conversion.) 

 

[Kierdale]

The ‘Big Gunz’ itself is 8 points but that’s without Grot gunners or wargear. You have to pay 2 points for each gunner and 18 for the lobba weapon (or 15 for a kannon, 18 for a zapp gun).

30 total.

(Not 40, my mistake :D)

[Warhead01]

I goofed my math but I was a Kannon fan and have 6 of them and at one point thought about rounding up at least 12 more.  kinda glad I didn't.

[Warhead01]

Oh, and on the topic of rumored models, the rumor of the new Ghaz and maybe more? If they are too cool for school I will be back to build and paint them. 

[XIXWYRMEXIX]

If a single lobba is 30 points they are not worth it. I will not use them. Waste of points for what they give you. That's a lot more expensive than they used to be. 

 

New ghazkull would/will be awesome if true. I never use him but I wouldn't mind a new model to aquire, he is a cool model. Too bad I can no longer just use my old one as a warboss in MA... because you know our warbosses don't get to have that option anymore. 

[Warhead01]

If a single lobba is 30 points they are not worth it. I will not use them. Waste of points for what they give you. That's a lot more expensive than they used to be. 

 

New ghazkull would/will be awesome if true. I never use him but I wouldn't mind a new model to aquire, he is a cool model. Too bad I can no longer just use my old one as a warboss in MA... because you know our warbosses don't get to have that option anymore. 

Lobbas were kinda tricky. Being single units once they were deployed made shooting them a lot less optimal that rolling a full batch together. The sneaky gunners being yet another unit, from the index, made bigguns/Mek Guns a little ridicules I think. i mean because people were using that extremely competitively and it was just silly. I really liked the Kannons and managed to swat a few flyers out of the sky with them, the D6 damage is a sleeper, it'll jump on you when your not looking!

I think honestly that the Smasha gun would easily replace my kannons at this point. 

As this is rumors and I guess speculation I would imagine maybe a  supplement to bring in any new HQ's or units just like Marines got things over the last few years before their new codex and chapter supplements. If the codex is mostly as it should be a small supplement to fill out codex Orks with a few more things wouldn't be unreasonable. I am thinking of the shadow spear box from ?last year? or when ever that dropped. 

I'd keep my expectations of new cool things set to low until the real rumor train takes off in a few months. 

I'll be happy to see the GW page showing off any new cool minis, hopefully they got the vehicles out of their system and can move on to better things. I'd  plunder a planet for a paulsa rokkit. Just sayin'.

[XIXWYRMEXIX]

Yeah I have been looking at the tractor cannon. I will have to see.

 

Yet another rumor in relation to what your saying in regards to supplements- PA4 is supposed to focus on space wolves and orks. Something should happen there. And not be a vehicle lol. Which would be cool. Though other than a new ghazkull I personally don't expect any new units or minis. If they happen I will be happy but I think it will be fluff, stratagems, etc.

[Azaiel]

A plastic weirdboy would be a fitting release with psychic awakening for Orks IMHO.

[Guest Triszin]

My worries are losing warboss in mega armor.

 

 

On rumors of pa.

 

If there is a box set with Ragnar, I expect him to be against a new megaboss armored warboss under ghaz in the box.

 

Beast ghaz will be a stand alone kit. He's primarch teir

[Warhead01]

I don't know what pa it. I have been out of the loop.

[Brother Casman]

PA is Psychic Awakening, GW's current set of campaign books.

[XIXWYRMEXIX]

In regards to the pa, the pa books continue the campaign but they also contain additions and supplements to different armies. PA2 the one that just came out has rues for the black templars space marines, the next pa willl have newer rules for blood angels, etc etc. The 4th pa rumor says it will be spacewolves and orks, with a rumored new ghazkull model. 

[Warhead01]

There's a chapter approved review covering the points changes by some git with a pointy ears name on youtube.
I don't recall hearing anything about grots going up in points buy I may have missed that. Hopefully it was just a bad rumor.