Sword brethren rules

[Rannik the White]

I picked up a large force of Templars a few months ago and used the Space Marine Codex.  But with the new codex I can't find the Sword Bretheren.  I have looked at the upcoming Faith and Fury and don't see them.  where would they be?

[ThirtySixNights]

Sword Brethren haven't had their own rules (I can't even remember if they did in 5th). So now they're just what Templars call their veterans.

 

So Company Veterans, Vanguard Veterans, etc etc.

 

However, I should add..

 

The Vigilus (I think) campaign book has a special strategm that turns company veterans into Seord Brethren (gives them befitting special rules)

[tvih]

Yeah, the unit called Sword Brethren hasn't been around since we got moved into the main SM codex. The models are still kickass and with some converting you can equip four them in a variety of ways to adapt them to different veteran squads if you want. I've magnetized all except the lightning claw guys at their wrists now, though it's been quite some time since I actually used them and the other 5 are in fact still unpainted. Lazy me!

Edited November 23, 2019 by tvih

[Indefragable]

Hypothetically speaking, if GW decided to (re)make Sword Brethren as a unit, how would they fit into the codex? Replace Vanguard Vets? Replace Company Vets? Would a unit all its own, separate from those two be justified?

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

I'd make them replace company and vanguard vets, be able to squad up to 10, have the bodyguard rule, and can take jump packs. They come stock with a storm shield and master crafted power sword, but can exchange the sword for a combi weapon or any of the SGT melee weapons, and the sword for any of the melee weapons or any of the SGT pistols. SGT has access to relic blade. Then I'd give them the vigilus strats without needing to spend CP to unlock them.

 

So basically just vanguard vets with bodyguard and the strats.

[Schlitzaf]

Ruleswise; SwordBros are best represented in terms of rules translation into Company Veterans. And with Vigilus Specialist Detachment make melee monsters.

[Acebaur]

Ruleswise; SwordBros are best represented in terms of rules translation into Company Veterans. And with Vigilus Specialist Detachment make melee monsters.

I disagree. I think Vanguard, Sternguard, Company Vets, and Terminators are all accurate representations of Sword Brethren

[Schlitzaf]

 

Ruleswise; SwordBros are best represented in terms of rules translation into Company Veterans. And with Vigilus Specialist Detachment make melee monsters.

I disagree. I think Vanguard, Sternguard, Company Vets, and Terminators are all accurate representations of Sword Brethren

Lore or rules translations? The 4th Edition Sword Brothern rules (essentially copies and pastes 4th Ed SM Vet rules at the time) you could mix and match melee & range weapons in the same squad which Stern and Vang cannot. Are best translated with the flexibility represented in company veterans (+ our specialist detachment). For Terminators I could those too but for the rules/model translation of our 4th Ed Unit I’d go company veterans.

 

Lore wise; Vang & Stern are fine lore translations of SwordBros to Rules on tabletop but in terms of rule translation & support from 4th to 8th Company Veterans

Edited November 23, 2019 by Schlitzaf

[Medjugorje]

I think one Option dont exclude the other . Company Veterans are the more common Version who fight near to other high ranked BT .The other have their Special preferences in Terms of taking the "holy bolter" with Special Munition and others with Jump Pack and for sure - Terminators are best of the best^^.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Medjugorje

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference fluff wise. All four are types of veteran units, the only difference being the rules.

[Acebaur]

 

 

Ruleswise; SwordBros are best represented in terms of rules translation into Company Veterans. And with Vigilus Specialist Detachment make melee monsters.

I disagree. I think Vanguard, Sternguard, Company Vets, and Terminators are all accurate representations of Sword Brethren

Lore or rules translations? The 4th Edition Sword Brothern rules (essentially copies and pastes 4th Ed SM Vet rules at the time) you could mix and match melee & range weapons in the same squad which Stern and Vang cannot. Are best translated with the flexibility represented in company veterans (+ our specialist detachment). For Terminators I could those too but for the rules/model translation of our 4th Ed Unit I’d go company veterans.

Lore wise; Vang & Stern are fine lore translations of SwordBros to Rules on tabletop but in terms of rule translation & support from 4th to 8th Company Veterans

Kind of? The 4th squad could take bolters or BP and ccw, but not mix them. The only thing that it could do was take a heavy and a special weapon and ccw weapons but there was no point in doing that back then because you couldn't charge after shooting rapid fire or heavy weapons. So everyone just took TLC and PS.

 

But that is beside the point. My point was that all of those units I mentioned are SB fluff wise as we no actual SB unit. So pick your flavor and go to town.

[Schlitzaf]

Ace we do have Sword Brothern specialist detachment. Which is company veterans only

[redmapa]

Ace we do have Sword Brothern specialist detachment. Which is company veterans only

 

Which in my opinion is a mistake, a huge part of Black Templars identity is the fact that as a Chapter they are the most willing to adapt to any situation which is why the Chapter doesnt have any formal organization until it has assessed what the Crusade needs to operate and win and that, for Veterans, is reflected in the fact that all Sword Brethren are taught how to operate anything that they may need to achieve victory, like Terminator armor.

 

All units in the codex that are Veterans would also be our Sword Brethren, in terms of rules they should all get the Sword Brethren keyword to reflect what they are within our chapter. Company Veterans are but one unit that is essentially the inner circle of the Company's leaders but Sword Brethren are so much more than that.

[Acebaur]

 

Ace we do have Sword Brothern specialist detachment. Which is company veterans only

 

Which in my opinion is a mistake, a huge part of Black Templars identity is the fact that as a Chapter they are the most willing to adapt to any situation which is why the Chapter doesnt have any formal organization until it has assessed what the Crusade needs to operate and win and that, for Veterans, is reflected in the fact that all Sword Brethren are taught how to operate anything that they may need to achieve victory, like Terminator armor.

 

All units in the codex that are Veterans would also be our Sword Brethren, in terms of rules they should all get the Sword Brethren keyword to reflect what they are within our chapter. Company Veterans are but one unit that is essentially the inner circle of the Company's leaders but Sword Brethren are so much more than that.

 

 

 

I think GW was afraid it'd be OP if they gave it to all veterans

[Ciler]

Likely. +1A to 5 company vets on foot isn't the same impact as +1A to 10 VV with jump packs.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Or a FNP on Assault Termies...

[Palmu]

Aye, I'm fairly sure they restricted the units that could go big because the Strats are really darn good, and can be somewhat balanced on units of max. 5.

[Medjugorje]

 

 

Ace we do have Sword Brothern specialist detachment. Which is company veterans only

 

Which in my opinion is a mistake, a huge part of Black Templars identity is the fact that as a Chapter they are the most willing to adapt to any situation which is why the Chapter doesnt have any formal organization until it has assessed what the Crusade needs to operate and win and that, for Veterans, is reflected in the fact that all Sword Brethren are taught how to operate anything that they may need to achieve victory, like Terminator armor.

 

All units in the codex that are Veterans would also be our Sword Brethren, in terms of rules they should all get the Sword Brethren keyword to reflect what they are within our chapter. Company Veterans are but one unit that is essentially the inner circle of the Company's leaders but Sword Brethren are so much more than that.

 

 

 

I think GW was afraid it'd be OP if they gave it to all veterans

 

I think they just want to give the model Sword Brethren a dedicated rulepack. Thats it.

 

 

@Ciler: but something we have now in a lithany. ( I think it was just a rush update ), if they had overthought it a Little bit they had the Option to cost it 2CP for Units with >5 Models.

 

@Palmu - they doesnt restrict it because it would be too good for Terminators or Vanguards, they never had the idea to give them anything... it was just about a Bonus for strictly BT Units ( Helbrecht, Emperors Champion and our Sword Brethren models...in Addition they put captains, the old command squad and other Champions into it because they were are now the same unit just that Helbrecht is a Special Version of it .... ).

Edited November 25, 2019 by Medjugorje