Two Waves or Three Waves of Melee?

[NeuronFlux]

I built two drop pods this week and have been throwing Helbrecht (using the new warlord trait, +1 charge/adv) with some veterans and crusaders out first turn. It's been pretty fun, but I think I need a second wave of melee attack.

 

I was thinking jump pack vets and assault terminators coming down from deep strike on round 2. I was thinking of a jump chaplain as well, that would deploy normally so I can get him up the board with his litany to support this wave.

 

Now, do I push it one further and go for a 3rd wave (crusaders in a LRC)? Or do I put the remainder of my points into long range AT that deploys normally at the beginning of the game (repulsor executioner, predators, etc)?

[Medjugorje]

2 waves in reserve (10 man Terminators and 10 Vangurads) is what i prefer

[Ciler]

Keep in mind your chaplain will NOT be able to buff anyone since litanies are said at the beginning of the round, ergo before your chaplain comes from deep strike.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Keep in mind your chaplain will NOT be able to buff anyone since litanies are said at the beginning of the round, ergo before your chaplain comes from deep strike.

He knows that. His plan is to have the chaplain deployed on the table, but forwards, then advance it to meet the droppers.

[Palmu]

Bike Chappy would probly be better in that regard, then.

 

And I think it's smart to have enough units to go for either two or three waves interchangeably. I mean the possibility to drop everything in the second wave or to keep something back as a third wave. Like an anti-knight melee unit that can only be dropped after any chaff protecting the Knight is gone, but can just be dropped along the second wave if the situation is good.

 

In general, keeping something in reserve any longer than necessary is risky since it gives the enemy less units that can threaten them, making their life easier.

[Ciler]

 

Keep in mind your chaplain will NOT be able to buff anyone since litanies are said at the beginning of the round, ergo before your chaplain comes from deep strike.

He knows that. His plan is to have the chaplain deployed on the table, but forwards, then advance it to meet the droppers.

 

Same problem actually, some litanies (fires of devotion +1A comes to mind) require that the "target" unit be near the chaplain when they are said. If your unit is still in it's pod, you're in trouble.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Depends on the litany?

[Ciler]

Yes, some require a specific target chosen when the litany is said (the +1A one, the 5+++ one), some merely require that the unit is within 6' of the chaplain (the reroll ones)

[Sword Brother Adelard]

You've also got the one from the standard litany list which adds charge distance, which is really useful for any deep strikers.

[Khornate individual]

So are these first turn charges out of the pods?  I thought you had to stand around for a turn after exiting pod before you could charge.  If not, that's pretty awesome!

[Ciler]

So are these first turn charges out of the pods?  I thought you had to stand around for a turn after exiting pod before you could charge.  If not, that's pretty awesome!

That was I think a 7th edition rule. As of 8th you can charge after disembarking any vehicle (unless otherwise specified) and drop pod have a specific rule that allows them to come in round 1 (most Deep Strike type abilities are only available round 2 in matched play). That being said, the drop pod rule specify that your squad must disembark 9' or more from enemy models, which makes for a long charge (although we Templars have it somewhat easier on that topic).

[Khornate individual]

Huh, I thought drop pod being placed on table counted as movement, so you disembark then have to wait to charge (guess that's what changed?).  Either way I'm liking this faith and fury book coming out, I have a huge templar army with 12 pods, 3 land raiders and an even bigger khorne army.  Gonna be some fun stuff for both!

[Palmu]

Said 9" issue can be circumvented by our CT, our newest and best WT and the Canticle of Hate Litany for Chaplains. That's three different methods of making a charge out of deepstrike more likely.

 

We also have the Advance+Charge Stratagem, which means that our Concealed Positions units have essentially guaranteed charges on the first turn of the game, depending on the deployment type of course (whereas before the opponent could simply deploy sufficiently far away from their frontline to avoid such charges), making our first turn all the more devastating.

 

I cannot stress how powerful the Canticle of Hate is now, however. Using it for an alpha strike was a niche tactic before, because a +3 even with a re-roll still fails on every 9th attempt, essentially an 11% chance of failure, but now that we have Ancient Breviary, the failure rate of that litany is well below 2%, skyrocketing its reliability. It isn't very resource intensive to take a Chaplain on a bike, recant the Litany on the first turn, zoom 20" forward and hand your drop-pod units +2" to charge. And a 7" charge with re-rolls to either one or both dice is quite a bit more reliable...

Edited November 24, 2019 by Palmu

[Medjugorje]

Keep in mind your chaplain will NOT be able to buff anyone since litanies are said at the beginning of the round, ergo before your chaplain comes from deep strike.

 

the most important lithany is an Aura for himself - canticle of hate is still the best lithany for our assault army. I like the Relic for 2dice rolls for each lithany. So its very likely that this two Units from reserve will arrive a CC-Fight.