Some more noob questions

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Falcons are not bad though. Pulse lasers are rare but they're great for killing Primaris and chipping wounds off tanks. Toss a Crystal Targeting Matrix on it and apply weaponized light to your enemy.

 

When discussing the various grav tanks on the Eldar FB group the best advice I think I saw was something along the lines of: if you're taking one HS grav tank, take a Falcon. If you're taking multiple HS grav tanks, take Fire Prisms.

[Karhedron]

When discussing the various grav tanks on the Eldar FB group the best advice I think I saw was something along the lines of: if you're taking one HS grav tank, take a Falcon. If you're taking multiple HS grav tanks, take Fire Prisms.

There is some wisdom in that. 2 Prisms with the Linked Fire stratagem are outstanding. 1 on its own, not so much.

 

Having said that, Expert Crafters makes even a single Prism almost as good as a linked one.

[Prot]

Interesting idea. I think with Expert Crafters that there could be some validity in the solo Falcon.

 

Plus it gives me a place to put some Avengers.

 

My thinking right now is I'm trying hard to put together these models and I won't have enough time to finish my reapers up for the game. So I think the Falcon will be worth trying.

 

2 x X8 -3AP 3Damage

 

Not bad. The reroll will help mitigate the paltry shots, and move and shoot disadvantage this unit has.

 

Conversely the Prism is 35 points more, and I can see how without the advantage of the Strategem, there is no advantage I can really see for that 35 points.

 

Also worth noting in the middle point value between these two units is my 4 man reaper squad firing 3 x S8 shots, and a 2D6 indirect. (perhaps the best value yet?) But most of my army is made to be a bit tougher.

 

 

 

So, I'll try the Falcon. I'll put 6 Dire Avengers in it, and let's see what happens. 

 

As a side question. Should I put the extra points into a heavy weapon on my Second Wraithlord (to match the first with Brightlance?) Or upgrade the Heavy weapon on the falcon?

 

Thanks guys.

[Karhedron]

As a side question. Should I put the extra points into a heavy weapon on my Second Wraithlord (to match the first with Brightlance?) Or upgrade the Heavy weapon on the falcon?

I think it is pretty much equal. My reasoning is that a Falcon in a good position can remain stationary whereas a Wraithlord will often benefit from moving forwards in order the threaten assault so is more likely to have the -1 to Hit penalty.

 

On the other hand, the Falcon already has a pulse laser to benefit from Expert Crafters. Seeing as it is only 1 reroll per unit, putting an extra heavy weapon on a unit that doesn't currently have one will potentially net you an extra reroll per turn. It also has the advantage that you don't need to convert to fit a weapon to a Wraithlord (although replacing the Falcon's scatter laser is pretty trivial).

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Going back to the Falcon, take a star cannon for the second turret gun. Doubles your shots, still multidamage. Edited November 28, 2019 by Iron Father Ferrum

[Prot]

Yea I think I’ll have to so that. I realized I didn’t have quite the points to do a full purchase of a Brightlance however the falcon is upgrading the cannon to a brightlance and that fits for only 10 points.

 

Another thing I like about the falcon idea over the Reapers for this list is the addition of a vehicle that can hang back a bit and shoot. The Reapers in this list would be on their own since the list is more aggressive.

 

So as I put the finishing touches on for my list tomorrow I realized I haven’t got a clue on the WL traits or relics. Again since I’m just picking up the army... I could be completely missing something but nothing sticks out at me.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Prot

[Slasher956]

wont help you for tomorrow... but the rumours are points drops on the  wraithbldes, wriathlords, falcons & warlocks/spirtseers :s

 

However yeah I agree that reapers do need baby sitting, either by an autarch or farseer for max probability... HOWEVER do remember that they dont care about BS alterations... they hit on 3s if they walk or stand still... they dont care if you have a -2 to being shot or if the target counts shooting BS of 6+*.. they will hit you on a 3+!   So they are not as slow or static as people think just because they have heavy weapons.

 

EDIT - WLTs ... depending on who your warlord is.. if its the autarch (or spirtseer) then take the +1 wound and 6+ FNP (fates messenger) .. if you have a long range weapon on a character then I'd look at the mark of the incomparable hunter....For a forward warlord babysitting the wraithblades then you could look at ambush of blades.

 

For the farseer ... seer of the shifting vector to for that sudo CP re-roll once per round

Edited November 29, 2019 by Slasher956

[Emicus]

I'm bringing 2x lances on my lords, but they are my backfield fire support. Wraithblades in 3cannon serpents roll up the field, scything down screens and trying to squeeze angry ghost elves into juicy close combat.

 

War walkers are better though (but I will live and die on this theme)

[Prot]

Thanks guys. Looking forward to seeing some point drops on Wraith units! Would love to see the Wraith Knight go down as well.

 

So anything stick out in my theme for a potential Relic?

 

@Emicus,

 

Yea this might be a bad idea, but I intend on being pretty aggressive with my army. Not sure it has chaff clearing ability, or the survivability for it, but hey, it's how I roll. :D

[Slasher956]

just a thought.... you could go Wraith Host formation from Vigilu defiant...

 

then you have the extra warlord trait - re-roll charges in 6" & the warp-spawn bane relic - (replaces witchstaff (spirtseer only basicallly) ignores invus on psykers & demons

 

 

EDIT - standard relics though... for the farseer on bike I'd go star of vaul for 6 shots from the twin shuriken cats on the bike.. If your Autarch is your warlord then  I'd give him the shimmerplume of achillrial espically if you has fates messenger to make him as hard to kill as possible for an eldar (-1 to hit, T4, W7, sv of 3+/ 4++ & a 6+FNP).  3rd spot goes for kurnos' bow to one of the spirtseers (the one babysitting the wraithblades for that 4+ woud to be AP -3)

Edited November 29, 2019 by Slasher956

[Prot]

I'll have to look into the Vigulus formation. I do have the book at home, but may not have enough time to fully read the rules. Also I'm only going to have about 9 CP for the start of the game so I'm not sure I'll try the detachment my first game with the new army.

 

My Warlord was looking like the Farseer.... the Autarch might be a better choice just because I think he'll be a lower level target compared to the main psyker buffing/debuffing. Some good ideas for the relics. Thank you.

[Emicus]

Also.... You sold your ultramarines???????

[Prot]

Also.... You sold your ultramarines???????

 

I guess the cat's out of the bag...

 

Yup. I do get a lot of requests combined through here, and my Instagram and my blog. Usually they ask for commissions (which I don't really do) but the odd army offer comes along. 

 

I even said I wasn't looking to sell it. It was my third Ultra army, and I can't see painting a 4th. But I was made an offer I just couldn't refuse. So it's time for a new chapter.

[sultansean]

Ok here's some of my general thoughts. 

 

Falcons with Expert Crafters and a missile launcher are quite nice. You can sit way back at 48" and have three las cannon like guns. 

 

If wave serpents are going to be transporting they should be Cheap (Shuriken cannons and Catalpults), Fast (Advancing, so assault weapons are nice), and Survivable (Vectored Engines). With three short ranged Wraithguard units if you ram 3 Serpents into the centre of his lines that are -1 to be hit and -1 damage that is some decent threat overload. You opponent either has to commit guns to kill them, or face the Wraiths when they disembark.

 

20 Guardians coming out of the web way guided and on a doomed target are pretty awesome. Don't forget that you can take wounds on the weapons platforms, which if you have cast Protect on them will have a 2+ save.

 

Wraith lords with Expert Crafters are very good as well, and you don't have to feel bad about taking them.

Relics. They are all pretty sad, especially for a home-brew craft world. Faolchus Wing is nice for a Farseer if you don't have the points for a jet bike. Schimmerplume is good for an Autarch. 

 

Warlord Traits: If you don't want to use the Index option banshee mask on your sky runner Autarch then An Eye on Distant Events (No Overwatch) is a must take in my opinion. Otherwise Seer of the Shifting Vector is good on a Spiritseer. Mark of the Incomparable Hunter could be fun on a Wraithseer with D-Cannon, if you want to lean into the Wraith theme with Forge World.  

[Karhedron]

Wraithknights are sadly underwhelming. GW seems to have consigned them to some sort of purgatory for being over-powered in 7th edition.

Looks like the Wraithknight has come down 30 points in the latest Chapter Approved with the Scatter Shield also receiving a discount. Whilst I would have preferred a power up, he is reaching the level where he is actually not bad for his points.

[Prot]

Yea the Wraithknight reduction totals  45 points! That's pretty tempting.

 

Actually overall I guess my list was extremely over valued since CA19 has me seeing a reduction in 145 points!

 

So far I have swapped blade Wraiths with Axe/Shield Wraiths. To me it's an easy upgrade for the heavy hitting stuff I see out there. 

 

After my game I'm considering moving some weapons around. The Falcon was kind of lethargic, but I think it's more all these 1 shot weapons that do real damage. But then again I already have a plethora of S6 and it doesn't cut the mustard vs. knight equivalents. T8, multi wound is definitely a problem for me.

 

Still not sure what direction to take. The Twin Brightlances on the Serpent was again... difficult to take advantage of. I clearly liked the advantage of a transport, but the -1 to hit kind of sucks on these 1 shot weapons.

 

This leaves me with 99 spare points after upgrading a single Wraith Squad to have axes/shields. 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Prot

[Captain_Krash]

How did the game go? 

 

Krash

[Prot]

How did the game go? 

 

Krash

 

Reported in the forum: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360305-batrep-mini-1-eldar-vs-orks/?p=5440157

[Captain_Krash]

Oh man my apologies 

 

Krash

[Prot]

Oh man my apologies 

 

Krash

 

No worries. It's easy to miss.

 

I am tweaking the list right now and have found with some minor adjustments, I can get in a Night Spinner!

 

So my ultimate goal is the Artillery units with Vibro cannons, but for now I have this Night Spinner model so I want to try it out.

[Captain_Krash]

Did you like how your Wraithguard performed? What about fielding two units with Axe/shield?

 

Krash

[Prot]

The Wraithguard were an amazingly fun balance to the list.

 

The list, kind of like eldar themselves, had a strange balance. We see so much of one unit x3 in competitive lists over and over. This is a layer of machines, carrying Elite infantry, and walkers all supported heavily by Psykers. 

 

I think the balance with 3 different Wraithguard units was interesting, but I think going to two axe squads might be too much? The D Scythes were so handy. The Wraithcannons really didn't get to fire at proper targets, however let me say that if I hadn't got super duper lucky with the Wraithlord in close combat saving on Fortune so much, I would have really needed those Wraithcannons.

 

The problem with my list... maybe all eldar lists(???) is I only have about 4-6 shots at any given time (from range) that have any real damage potential to hard target. 

 

Right now close combat wise I have 2 Wraithlords, and 1 squad of Wraiths. 

 

With the point reduction I'd love to get a sword set in even, but with the discount to axes and shields... yup probably those axes instead.

 

I wouldn't call this a competitive list. I'm sure you saw in the batrep my opponent turned down his competitive Orks a bit. :)

[Prot]

So the second game was pretty bad. And I realized my list mimicked some very typical Dark Eldar lists, but they do most of the things I was attempting a lot better.

 

The Talos annihilated my Wraithguard squad (even doomed, and me getting the charge off).

 

The "heavy" weapons on boats for DE were far better than my heavies all on platforms that took move/shoot penalties. Not to mention the DE have a built in invuln and "spirit stones". This was a really hard match up in every way. His transports are just as difficult. If I moved at -1, then his transports are -1, I really had tremendous trouble hitting and then doing damage.

 

Wraith units were drowned in poison. 

 

Lessons learned. I'm not able to go toe to toe with a very average tournament DE list. 

 

I also realized that while behind the 8 ball on such a match up, this makes my Psychic phase even more critical. There just can't be a miss on Jinx against a unit like Talos. 

 

 

 

So changes to the list:

 

I'm dropping Wraithlords, and a Wraith squad in favour of a WraithKnight.

 

I'm dropping the Falcon (just didn't do anything in 2 games.  In favour of 3 Vibro cannon Artillery units (just trying to squeeze more of out of Expert Crafters).

 

I'm dropping the Autarch Skyrunner. I'm finding he's not really that great in CC. Which is fine, but the re-roll 1 aura isn't as helpful in my very mobile list where stuff is all over the place. I have a low volume of shots from my units. Expert Crafters seems to help more, and maybe I'd feel different with multiple Reaper units, or even multiple Night Spinners.

 

This helps put in two Warlocks. Allowing me to shore up my psychic issues to get a better chance with the 1's turns into 2's on the Farseer and Warlocks.

 

Finally I pulled out one Serpent, and I'm using a mini- guardian blob (I don't have enough chaff clearing) and putting in a Hemlock Wraithfighter (can take advantage of Wrath of the Dead).

 

I'm working hard on the fighter, so hopefully it'll be done this week!

 

Lots of changes. Maybe it won't work but I do believe I was going in a bad direction for long term play with the army. We'll see.

[Emicus]

That is a *lot* of changes in one go, can it even be called tweaks at this point?

 

With a 'fresh' army i think it's important to get to know it bit before making any changes, less so changing it wholesale.

 

Yes you lost badly against dark eldar but what could you have done differently? Was the mission or terrain particularly helpful? Was your Wrath guard being transported or teleporting, did they do something mission critical before being poisoned to death?

 

Were you able to zone him out?

 

And yeah -2 to hit sucks but there is melee..

 

I know your environment is exceptionally cut-throat, but people keep saying the best generals win regardless of list.... Can you chop your falcon into a night spinner?

 

Which WK build will you take?

Edited December 10, 2019 by Emicus

[sultansean]

Vibro Cannons look great, and Guardians are a very versatile unit, I think those are good changes. 

 

The Wraithknight, I am interested to hear about. Even with the points drop it still does not seem like a competitive choice to me. Although I understand it is also a place holder currently.