SyNidus Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Would it be viable to run triple heldrakes against space marines? Particularly in my night lords army where i’m planning to use them to clear primaris infiltrators and other screening units to make way for raptors next turn. Other than, what about using them to threaten the enemy backline right from the start? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360131-triple-heldrakes-viable-in-the-marine-meta/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 How durable are they these days? I have been looking at the firepower sweep potential of FW flyers myself instead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360131-triple-heldrakes-viable-in-the-marine-meta/#findComment-5433656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 They've got the standard daemon engine profile in T7, 12W with 3+/5++ so along with Infernal Regeneration to add a wound back each turn it's decent medium armour. However it's not anything particularly special either, so an opponent with ranged AT guns can take one out if he wants to focus some attention - which is likely when he sees what it could do to his plans! That's where taking some more would help though, and a distraction carnifex has uses too The D2 weaponry would certainly help a lot against 2W models, especially the Baleflamer to negate the movement penalty to hitting but that might just be painting a bigger target on it here? I'm still interested in adding a Heldrake to my forces (perhaps that should be after a second Maulerfiend?), so I'll be interested to hear more from people who've used them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360131-triple-heldrakes-viable-in-the-marine-meta/#findComment-5433723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Heldrakes are reasonably but not amazingly durable, they just don't do any real damage. Even with damage 2 they're lucky to kill more than a single primaris marine on a charge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360131-triple-heldrakes-viable-in-the-marine-meta/#findComment-5433989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreaterChickenofTzeentch Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Heldrakes are reasonably but not amazingly durable, they just don't do any real damage. Even with damage 2 they're lucky to kill more than a single primaris marine on a charge. Yep. Heldrakes are harassment units and character killers. They also do a decent job at soaking overwatch for other units in a pinch. I believe Don Hooson had some success with 3 of them in his Purge list for a while befor switching to Hell Blades for better compatibility with the Renegade Trait. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360131-triple-heldrakes-viable-in-the-marine-meta/#findComment-5433996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 One thing I've been considering for clearing out infiltrators is a small, cheap bike squad. Three bikers, two with flamers and a combi-flamer on the champion. If you don't make an Advance move, you're looking at 3D6 auto hits backed by 12 bolter shots (and another 2 at BS4+) for 89pts. If needed, you can Advance 20" up the table and still get all those flamer hits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360131-triple-heldrakes-viable-in-the-marine-meta/#findComment-5434320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Within Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Night lords helldrake's would be okay as it can trap units in combat. However theyve not got great damage output. However if they receive a points drop they might become more viable Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360131-triple-heldrakes-viable-in-the-marine-meta/#findComment-5434355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Ruminahui Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 If you don't intend to be regularly advancing the bikes into flamer range, I would go with a stormbolter on the champ rather than a combiflamer - less expensive, and on a biker it always pumps out 4 shots. IMHO, if you intend to use the unit as an objective grabber/general harasser, the extra range is worth having to roll to hit, and the cheaper cost is just an incidental and added bonus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360131-triple-heldrakes-viable-in-the-marine-meta/#findComment-5434400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Incompetence Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Night lords helldrake's would be okay as it can trap units in combat. However theyve not got great damage output. However if they receive a points drop they might become more viable Night Lords Heldrakes can't trap units in combat either. The stratagem you're referring to specifically bars units with the <vehicle> keyword from using it. However, they do benefit Night Lords greatly by helping them get Vox Scream off on whatever unit you want due to their amazing mobility and speed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360131-triple-heldrakes-viable-in-the-marine-meta/#findComment-5434822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
techsoldaten Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 The basic role of Heldrakes in a NuMarine meta is disruption. You use their movement to keep your opponent from moving forward early game, maybe try to split their forces. They compete with Raptors and Bikes for this role, with the benefit of being able to move over impassable terrain. But here's the thing about Heldrakes the other's don't have, it's that base. Your opponent can move over it but not put models on it. Position the Heldrake where it controls movement and your opponent is at a disadvantage. Turn the base to cover the widest possible area and you can do some interesting things. In a recent game versus NuMarines, I was able to position 2 Heldrakes to choke off an Ultramarines advance. A couple squads of Intercessors got split off from his HQs going around the Heldrakes, meaning they didn't get rerolls in subsequent turns. A Redeemer was not able to move forward until the Heldrakes were destroyed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360131-triple-heldrakes-viable-in-the-marine-meta/#findComment-5434911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyNidus Posted November 27, 2019 Author Share Posted November 27, 2019 Thanks for the discussions and feedback. I think techsoldaten's idea about flyer bases is an interesting one. I am curious to see how much a heldrake price drop would affect viability. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360131-triple-heldrakes-viable-in-the-marine-meta/#findComment-5435306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekhitar Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 The heldrake is a flier, but it is not Aircraft. Your opponent cannot move through it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360131-triple-heldrakes-viable-in-the-marine-meta/#findComment-5436735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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