Having different model types in a squad?

[Kolgrim DeathHowl]

So I just found out if you have a Terminator in your vet group they don't have morale checks. I see alot of people put like 1-2 Termies, 1-2 bikers in a group of vets. So my understanding is the whole group can then fall back and shoot? The termies I have right now are really just close combat weapons but is it good to then just add 1-2 of both types to a squad of vets, rather than a full squad of Termies or Bikers? And do you think it would be better to arm the termies with guns rather than ccw's, or I could put 1 of each in the squad also. 

 

Excuse me I'm super new to playing the game here so I feel like everything I ask is noobish lol.

[Mobius0288]

Right idea but wring models.

 

Veteran units are unique in that they allow you to add 3 distinct models:

 

Vanguard Veteran - allows your veteran unit to fall back in the movement phase and shoot in the shooting phase

Biker - allows your veteran unit to fall back in the movement phase and charge in the charge phase

Terminator - your veteran unit is immune to morale tests while it is alive

*Blackshield - allows the unit to heroically intervene, but must always intervene if able too

 

I personally like the shooty terminators the best because they are generally cheaper. I also tend to use mine has bullet sponges so kitting them out as shooty gives them a more likely chance to do something before my unit gets shot at. I do have a couple close combat termies I use but it's more for fun (Lightning claws). A heavily kitted out close combat veteran unit can get expensive and isn't entirely optimized in terms of being able to output in the shooting phase and fighting phase. You can still go pure close combat, it's just that the odds are better when you include a little bit of both. You'll also find that it is REALLY easy to spend too many points on toys and not have enough bodies spread out on the table.

 

The optimized vet unit looks something like this:

Sgt - Storm bolter, chainsword

Vet - Storm bolter, storm shield

Vet - Storm bolter, storm shield

Vet - Storm bolter, storm shield

Vet - Storm bolter, storm shield

Terminator - Storm bolter, power maul

Terminator - Storm bolter, power maul

Vanguard Veteran - bolt pistol, bolt pistol

 

Now you can absolutely up or downscale this to flavor, transport or points limitations. Power mauls are the cheapest option for termies with the best chance at wounding, while still allowing them to shoot. They could take storm shield but they have to take thunder hammers too, which greatly increases the price of the model. In this case, the storm shields are cheaper to put on vets and preserves the terminators to be used against low AP weapons. If you were take one purely for morale purposes (larger sized vet units, like 7-9 vet models), then you could put whatever you want because you'll want him to die last anyway.

 

I don't run perfectly optimized units but here is an example of my "close combat" kill team that I run every game:

Sgt - Storm bolter, power axe

Blackshield - Storm bolter, power axe

Vet - Storm bolter, storm shield

Vet - Storm bolter, storm shield

Vet - Storm bolter, storm shield

Vet - Frag Cannon

Terminator - Storm bolter, power fist

Terminator - Lightning claws

Vanguard Veteran - Bolt pistol, power sword

 

Still lets me shoot in the shooting phase, as well as deal some close combat damage to most types of units, while still having a little bit of durability with the storm shields and terminator saves. Though the model with lightning claws can't shoot, he can still chuck a grenade when he gets close enough.

 

Could you run a pure close combat squad with storm shields, hammers and power weapons? Sure. The tricky part we tend to have is delivery to your target. If you run mixed models, you only have the blackstar available to you (12 unit capacity, termies and VVs take 2 slots, bikers take 3). Also understand that even if you put them all in our gloriously looking blackstar, chances are decent that it could be shot down before you can unload your cargo. The other option would be deep strike but the issue here is you have to roll a 9" charge when they arrive. Again, not a guarantee they will make it in... and if you don't make it, chances are really good your opponent could focus fire on that unit as it tends to be the closest/biggest threat on that following turn.

 

All that to say I think our best bet is having a mix of close combat and shooting in our vet units. Enjoy the special and heavy weapons as well but don't go crazy on the points. You will need to balance that with the HQs, anti-tank and transports you want. A few tactics like the teleportarium stratagem and beacon angelis relic can help with transport issues to a degree. I dodged bikers because I tend to use them as fast attack choices rather than including them in veteran units. I use them for screens and harassing on turn 1.

[Kolgrim DeathHowl]

Thank you for the info I learned alot of stuff I didn't know, I'm just trying to learn as much as I can so when I go to play at the local shops I'm not a super noob lol. I'm going out of town this week to my aunts old house mainly to pick up my old 40k stuff I have from the early 2000's. I was doing SW then I hadn't played but I have about 1.5-2k point army half painted half primed. Maybe eventually I'll add a detachment of them to my army, but for now I'm going to go with the Eisenhorn + DW army while I learn to play better.

 

Edit: I ordered some Terminator Bolt Pistols so I can have a couple shooters in the mix, instead of buying another box of termies.