Medjugorje Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 Hello Brothers, I already have Psychic Awakening 2 (but just in german language). First thing I´ve done was to read the fluff (ironic because everybody think I am a Power gamer in my area - 8. edition 36 tournaments so far but Black Templars will always be my true love). First thing at all: The Black Templars , one of the Imperial Fists Successor chapters are one of the biggest (in german "größten" could also translated into "greatest" ) and most feared Space Marine Chapters. The Black Templars deny the limit of 1000 Marines.. Each crusade depends on 1000s of MArines !!!! THATS more then I expected. AWESOME YES YES YES, GW ZEAL templargdt, Champion Rawne, redmapa and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmu Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 Try to find anything about Draco and his excommunication, I'm the most curious about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted November 27, 2019 Author Share Posted November 27, 2019 Try to find anything about Draco and his excommunication, I'm the most curious about that. in the BT Supplement there is nothing more. Maybe in the whole story arc (but i dont think so) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirnov Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 For a second I though Honda was back %) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 For a second I though Honda was back %) Honda hasn't logged in since April... :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted November 27, 2019 Author Share Posted November 27, 2019 does anybody know him private? Is ererything ok so far? btw... no more lore except a bit fluff - not huge amount fluff to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 If there's still only supposed to be four main crusades on average at a time so that's still not necessarily much more than previous statements about large numbers (but far more than the around 1600 which is around the most common conservative estimate when I tried adding things up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted November 27, 2019 Author Share Posted November 27, 2019 thousands mean at least 2000 per crusade. If there are 3 big ones it means minimum 6000. --> not bad at all and Guy Haleys blog statement was " a little bit over 1000" in 2014 --> thats history and not valid anymore painting.for.my.sanity 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 "Thousands" per Crusade seems like an excessive statement if it really says that. Most marine ops by any chapter don't require even a company of marines, never mind a full chapter's worth, never mind several. Same goes for Templars. There wasn't a full thousand Templars in Armageddon even, unless this change means Helbrecht flat out lied or never said their numbers. After all, wouldn't be the first time our BL representation is tossed away. Mind you, I'm not saying it's bad at all that there's more Templars than in a standard Chapter, that was the implication in our codex's era. But the new info should be sensical and not needlessly retcon other known factors. Even considering the post-Cadian era it is hard to see "thousands" gathering for a single operation regularly. Dosjetka 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 There actually was more than a 1000 marines at Armageddon, 1200 according to the 4th edition codex with the majority staying with Helbrecht fighting the Ork fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 There actually was more than a 1000 marines at Armageddon, 1200 according to the 4th edition codex with the majority staying with Helbrecht fighting the Ork fleet. It's been a long while since I read said Codex but I don't recall it flat out mentioning such numbers? In BL fiction (was it Helsreach?) the number Helbrecht gave was just a bit under 1000. In any case, fielding more than a thousand, never mind several, in a single location regularly - I don't see how that would not have gotten them into trouble at least pre-Guilliman. I guess that's one problem with such statements if they're not placed into a timeline. Still, even with all that said I do still find it a bit difficult to care about BT lore specifics since we got "rolled". Anything I may care about may get changed at any time for no reason at all. And if I wanted to go purely with "headcanon" I would've made a custom chapter to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 I don't think I've ever seen a single order of battle for a crusade which numbers in multiple thousands. There were eventually around 1300 at Armageddon. (I say 'eventually' as Helbrecht lied to Imperial Command as to how many he had before the orks arrived to ensure he got fleet command, he then had to leave the campaign to go to Fergus to get the rest and come back.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirnov Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 One thing to remember that chapter strength limits only 'combat strength', so it counts only those bodies who do the fighting. Specialists like techmarines and apothecaries, pilots. etc go over the quota, so every chapter has more than 1000 actual marines at full strength Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamansky Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) On the last pages of the 4th edition codex there is a report containing estimated numbers of The Donian Crusade (985.M39). The total number of ground troops is 837 men, including neophytes, scout bikers and tank crews. 694 of the number are Ininitiates, including Marshal and Castelans, techmarines, apotecaries, 'jump packs' and TDA. Fleet assets, dreadnoughts and crews of 38 Thunderhawks (3 crew members+1 navigator each) were not included. Edited November 28, 2019 by Shamansky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Tvih get in trouble with who? The Black Templars have never cared what others thought of them and aren't beholden to answer to anyone. Also keep in mind that a full strength codex chapter is actually more like 1200 marines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Not caring about what others think of you doesn't protect you from repercussions though :P Celestial Lions got craplisted for a lesser offense towards Imperial authority than having "thousands" of marines. Dosjetka 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmu Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 The Celestial Lions problem was that they ONLY had a thousand marines. Very easy to bully. Hadda, Acebaur, Dosjetka and 3 others 6 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 Not caring about what others think of you doesn't protect you from repercussions though Celestial Lions got craplisted for a lesser offense towards Imperial authority than having "thousands" of marines. The celestial lions are not the Black Templars. Its not about numbers or anything. Its about your reputaion... and the Black Templars are one of the most famed Chapters. Its not as easy as to work against the celestial lions. The Celestial Lions problem was that they ONLY had a thousand marines. Very easy to bully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 The Black Templars have also made themselves plenty of powerful "enemies" who'd like to see them brought down a peg. Just take a look at what happened to the Space Wolves during the Months of Shame, and they're a Founding Chapter. The Templars are protected by both their reputation and the fact that they don't tend to operate at Chapter strength, so taking them out would prove incredibly difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymnblade Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Depending on just how many Primaris reinforcements we got, they might account for the discrepancy. I kind of dislike the idea of 4 crusades numbered in the thousands, vs dozens the size of a company or two, though. The latter meshes better with each player representing their own crusade. Dosjetka and Shamansky 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Glad they unretconned the size. Forward progress on getting back to the golden age lore. Champion Rawne, Volt and Medjugorje 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyB Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Depending on just how many Primaris reinforcements we got, they might account for the discrepancy. I kind of dislike the idea of 4 crusades numbered in the thousands, vs dozens the size of a company or two, though. The latter meshes better with each player representing their own crusade. Both-and. Four main crusades, each numbering in the thousands, and innumerable smaller crusades. Anyone who tells you "that's not true, because GW said/didn't say" is trying to steal your fun ZEAL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciler Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Tvih get in trouble with who? The Black Templars have never cared what others thought of them and aren't beholden to answer to anyone.The inquisition, if memory serves, which is perhaps the only imperial organisation a space marine chapter could and should rightfully be concerned about. Concerned, not afraid, mind. Dosjetka 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted November 29, 2019 Author Share Posted November 29, 2019 The Black Templars have also made themselves plenty of powerful "enemies" who'd like to see them brought down a peg. Just take a look at what happened to the Space Wolves during the Months of Shame, and they're a Founding Chapter. The Templars are protected by both their reputation and the fact that they don't tend to operate at Chapter strength, so taking them out would prove incredibly difficult. no... its still their allies. With the whole Imperial Fists successor chapters and huge parts of the ecclesiarchy our Chapter have very very very loyal and influential allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
templargdt Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 I was incredibly thrilled to read the fluff for the Templars in F&F back to 'thousands of marines'. Awesome. Back to the 4th edition codex numbers, I think it said on the last page estimated to be six thousand marines. Then I read more. ‘By our blades will the xenos canker be excised from the galaxy. By our flamers will the heretic and the traitor be consumed in the fires of damnation. We are the Emperor’s final word to all who would deny Humanity’s divine mandate; vengeance is coming.’I was reading and thinking "yeah, nice." And then I see the quotation is from... Grimaldus. YES. Nice work GW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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