Prot's Awakening. A tale of my Eldar Folly.

[TrawlingCleaner]

 

 

 

 

 

With your mad good painting skill I would love to see you paint the ynnari charachters and then try them out. I have heard they can boost a wraith unit but I don´t know if it´s true.

 

That's nice of you to say. I would love to try them but I have difficulty understanding their role in Craftworlds. I don't understand really how they fit. Do they just "co-exist" within craftworld detachments? Or do they break the detachment Craftworld rules? The Psychic power seem extremely Ynnari specific. I'm not sure how to get real mileage out of them. Maybe it is better to use Shining Spears and Harlequins and not a pure Craftworld list with those characters? Again, it's kind of completely uncharted territory for me. But yes, I'd love to paint/ use the models... if they work.

 

As I understand it, as long as there are no Special characters in a detactchment, they can be dropped in. This works for CWE, DE and Harlies and you lose no rules. But most tournaments will put you down as Aeldari rather than Craftworld as it technically becomes soup

[SkimaskMohawk]

I know the feeling of trying to paint up the models you like and then trying to fit together a list that doesn't make playing 8th a complete waste of time.

 

For the ynnari, I understand that you have to take one of their hqs in a detachment and then it becomes ynnari. You lose access to the <craftworld> keyword and all the eldar codex stuff like relics and traits, but gain the ynnari ones and their special rules in return. You would become soup because you'd have a craftworld (or two) detachment and then a ynnari one.

 

But, ynnari stuff seems to work well for wraith based lists, since Lords and blades tend to like hitting on 2s. Also the wraith seers can be pretty mean when you stack the warlord traits on them.

[MasterAO]

You can include Yvraine, the Yncarne or the VIsarch in a battle forged Craftworld detachment and it will still count as a battle forged Craftworld detachment (and gain the craftworld abilities for being from said Craftworld). However, you cannot include any named character (other than Yvraine, the Yncarne or the Visarch) or the Avatar of Khaine in that detatchment. 

[Prot]

I know the feeling of trying to paint up the models you like and then trying to fit together a list that doesn't make playing 8th a complete waste of time.

 

For the ynnari, I understand that you have to take one of their hqs in a detachment and then it becomes ynnari. You lose access to the <craftworld> keyword and all the eldar codex stuff like relics and traits, but gain the ynnari ones and their special rules in return. You would become soup because you'd have a craftworld (or two) detachment and then a ynnari one.

 

But, ynnari stuff seems to work well for wraith based lists, since Lords and blades tend to like hitting on 2s. Also the wraith seers can be pretty mean when you stack the warlord traits on them.

 

 

I noticed that a lot of the Ynnari powers seem focused on close combat. My Wraithknight probably is not going to benefit (because he'd be in a different detachment?) But if I put... let's say Yncarne in a detachment with Craftworld shining spears, can he enhance them? 

 

Further to that... if there is a Warlock nearby (from a different detachment) can he cast Protect (or a Farseer's Guide for that matter) on that Shining Spear unit?

 

You can include Yvraine, the Yncarne or the VIsarch in a battle forged Craftworld detachment and it will still count as a battle forged Craftworld detachment (and gain the craftworld abilities for being from said Craftworld). However, you cannot include any named character (other than Yvraine, the Yncarne or the Visarch) or the Avatar of Khaine in that detatchment. 

 

Okay so this is the best answer yet. :) 

 

But I want to understand a few differences:

- If I include Yvraine, the Yncarne, or the Visarch in my Craftworld detachment, does it become soup? Or is it still craftworld?

- If I have a different... Craftworld Battalion Farseer/Warlock, can a power they cast target Ynvraine/Yncarne/Visarch? Or the Shining Spears in my previous example?

- If I have my fictional Yncarne detachment and he/she is with the Shining Spears, can I he/she still use the Inevitable Death ability to 'teleport' on and around the table?

- Does it make more sense to have a Shining Spear Detachment with Yncarne remain "Craftworlds" or does it make more sense to turn that detachment into "Ynnari"? 

[SkimaskMohawk]

So you can plop the special character into a craftworld detachment and have it keep the craftworld stuff (essentially the character is just riding along). This you from getting strength from death or the stratagems and some very limited use out of the psychic powers.

 

But, if you instead make that detachment ynnari, you lose your craftworld keyword and the ability to be affected by craftworld traits, psychic powers and stratagems. Your ynnari spears wouldn't benefit from doom or jinx.

 

If you do the latter of the two, your army becomes soup.

 

Yncarne can always teleport to a destroyed unit, regardless of detachment or player ownership.

 

If you want your melee guys to hit on 2s and the bikes able to be resurrected and use Ynnead's Net then you want to make the detachment ynnari.

[Prot]

Thanks. It’s an interesting choice for sure. I was thinking of the bikes but there’s probably better options.

[Karhedron]

Against my better judgement I'm still holding on to the idea of playing the Wraithknight. I just love the model and want to paint one up and actually take it to a tournament. This definitely conflicts with taking Wraithguard/blades in my opinion because points get scarce, and I find you can really only 'protect' / buff a single unit like that.

I find Wave Serpents are the best way to support Wraithguard/blades. If your psykers are buffing the Knight, putting the Wraithguard in a tough, fast shell is the next best thing. It helps that you don't need CPs of psychic powers to make this effective. Current Iron Hand Dreadspam tends to favour Leviathans with stormcannon arrays and Wave Serpents really neuter their shooting as they will only average 8 wounds against a Serpent (less if you LFR). That means 2 300+ point Dreads arerequired to kill a 150 point transport.

 

The key is threat overload so at least 2 Serpents loaded up with your favourite flavour of Guard backed up by a Wraithknight with psychic powers and a Wraithlord or 2 with Glaives Advancing behind will make a very menacing 2nd wave. The trick is to have multiple, fast-moving T7/8 units hitting his lines together and overwhelming part of his army before the marines can crack open all those targets with his firepower.

 

Eldar Triumvirate look amazing to me. A real challenge to paint, especially that Yncarne. (No idea how to use any of these in any really meaningful way. )

Yvraine is the easiest to use as you can pop her in a detachment as a support psycher to help spam some more mortal wounds. Not particularly exciting but reasonably effective.

 

The Visarch is really just an Ynnari Autarch with a slightly better sword. His only real value is if you have taken the other two and you want a 3rd Ynnari detachment.

 

The Yncarne is a precision tool in my experience and his value is all about his redeploy ability. On paper, he looks worse than a Tzeentch daemon price yet costs more points. But his ability to deploy near a destroyed unit can potentially make him a nightmare for your opponent, particularly if you find ways to use this ability in his turn rather than yours. Suddenly your opponent will think twice about wiping out that small infantry squad on an objective as they know the Yncarne will pop up like a demented jack-in-the-box and charge in your turn. You can also use it to pull the Yncarne out of trouble if necessary.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Karhedron

[Prot]

 

Against my better judgement I'm still holding on to the idea of playing the Wraithknight. I just love the model and want to paint one up and actually take it to a tournament. This definitely conflicts with taking Wraithguard/blades in my opinion because points get scarce, and I find you can really only 'protect' / buff a single unit like that.

I find Wave Serpents are the best way to support Wraithguard/blades. If your psykers are buffing the Knight, putting the Wraithguard in a tough, fast shell is the next best thing. It helps that you don't need CPs of psychic powers to make this effective. Current Iron Hand Dreadspam tends to favour Leviathans with stormcannon arrays and Wave Serpents really neuter their shooting as they will only average 8 wounds against a Serpent (less if you LFR). That means 2 300+ point Dreads arerequired to kill a 150 point transport.

 

The key is threat overload so at least 2 Serpents loaded up with your favourite flavour of Guard backed up by a Wraithknight with psychic powers and a Wraithlord or 2 with Glaives Advancing behind will make a very menacing 2nd wave. The trick is to have multiple, fast-moving T7/8 units hitting his lines together and overwhelming part of his army before the marines can crack open all those targets with his firepower.

 

 

The more I play this overall theme, the more I think you're right. 

- There is a very competitive eldar player at the store who's been playing a 10 man axe/shield squad on foot getting all the buffs. It seems to be formidable if not 'competitive' but he's able to lend all buffs on the 10 man Axe squad while his back line is full of Vibros (9 I think) and 3 Fire Prisms (plus a lot of Dire Avengers).

 

- In my variant there's too much to protect, and it's slow. A bad combo.

 

- I was experimenting with 1 x 5 axes and 1 x 5 D Scythes in 2 Serpents. It's just so costly that if I'm trying to mix in a Wraithknight, or something along that cost line, I suffer immensely with inefficiencies throughout the rest of the list. IE: Poor shooting phase, low character support, and/or poor board coverage.

 

- Those 2 groups of Wraiths (175 + 185) and the serpents with Vectored engines (which I think are a must) ( 149 x 2) = 658 pts.  That's actually a lot for something that has mostly zero killing potential until T2-3. 

 

- The cheapest Wraithknight I use is 374.  Add in the 658 = 1,032 pts. Now that's half the list that is more or less dedicated to the end game and will kill nearly nothing but the lowliest of chaff (in the open) until Turns 2-3. 

 

- My HQ which has accidentally turned into a support group for all these units is sitting at 474 points. That takes me to 1506 with no T1 threat, and possibly no T-2 damage. That HQ, is Skyrunner HQ's (Warlock/Farseer/Autarch) and Spiritseer. That's crazy when you think about it.

 

- When ALL of this 1506 Points is deployed, it is 2 vehicles, the Knight, and some HQ's huddled between the vehicles. 

 

- Troops are very vanilla at 178 points and are so cheap they are little more than kill points for opponents. But they are there for the Battalion and can usually hold on to an objective for 1-2 turns. (1,681 points).

 

- So here we are with 319 points to do some heavy lifting, mostly shooting because I have zilch from an army that's supposed to be very good at it.

 

- I've been throwing in the Wraithfighter because in T1 it allows me SOME form of threat, and if you're lazy in deployment I can snipe characters. (Plus it still looks cool imho and fits the Wraith theme.)

 

So I ask if this is even realistic in a competitive environment or a pipe dream. I have won with this army a few times, but it is so hard to play. It has zero room for error. Sometimes I swear the points I fill with the Vibro's save my bacon. I have none of the competitive staple units:

- Dark Reapers (no points to keep them hidden in a vehicle (I won't take them without a vehicle as they get annihilated by marines every time.)

- Shining Spears. Just too expensive in my list.

- Crimson Hunters. Love them, but I think they are super overrated right now and LVO finally showed this to be true.

- Night Spinners. Great, no points. I think you need 2 minimum. I've been running 1 once in a while.

- Fire Prisms. No points for these units.

- Wraithlord. I found the assault ones aren't working for me in this list. With Expert Crafters, using 1 or even 2 EML you do get great mileage out of them, and I think they are great in that role, protecting a fire base since the fists still clobber deep strikers pretty good. Just no points available.

 

Every list I make that gets better, drops Wraith units. That's just a fact. As mentioned earlier when I win it's because I made zero mistakes (or nearly zero) and the psychic phase went off without a hitch.

 

Studying LVO there's very little success with pure Craftworlds. I know marines are just that good right now (it's why I stopped playing mine).

 

Sorry for writing an essay but I wanted to cover everything I've experienced with the Wraith units and their issues as I tweak the list.

 

 

 

 

[NatBrannigan]

Luckily for me i'm not a fan of the Wraith Knight model at all. Trying to fit 20 Wraith Guard / Blades into a list is hard enough but I think they could do well. Plenty of ways to get deep striking Wriathblades fairly reliably into combat and I've got no issues taking 2 Wave Serpents for the 5 man Guard squads since they're useful to have anyway. After that I've playing about fitting a Wraith Seer in (no LOS required D-cannon looks a dangerous tool, especially with Mark of the Incomparable Hunter) but other Wraiths are tricky. 

 

Not sure if you consider 20 odd Wraithguard and a Wrath seer enough to keep the theme of your army? Unfortunately after a certain point the more Wraith like you make it the less competitive it'll be. Tools like Spears and Fire Prisms are too useful and cover too many weaknesses of the Wraith units not to look at.

[Prot]

 I agree with the weakness stuff,and the view of Fire Prisms and Spears. 

 

Actually I'm on the fence about the flyers. That's another model I love (the flyers) but I really believe they are a red herring. ITC made them bigger, but I just don't think they're working in this marine meta at all, and Tau has never had a problem bringing them down.

 

But yes, I confess I love the Wraithknight.

 

I played another game vs. AdMech. I took a pretty big whoopin'. I went first too, and got very lucky with the Wraithknight. I got Fortune on him which is huge. I think he took 20 Wounds in the Admech T1!

 

I know the Wraithknight is another under performing slug in the Eldar line up, but for 374 points.... Wow did he ever take a lot of firepower. 

 

So the way the Wraiths work in this list is I have 5 Dscythes + 5 Axe/shield dudes in two vanilla wave serpents. The Wraithknight absorbed so many wounds I had free reign in the AdMech deployment zone for one turn.

 

I blew up a Skorpius Tank in T2, along with an Onager, but he had a ton more..... My Wraithknight did have enough wounds left to do a decent 'stomp' fest on some Fulgurite Priests. 

 

The Knight died, and to my surprise the firepower of the Admech totally wiped both Wraith squads (even with Protect and the improved invulnerable save).

 

So by Turn 3 all I had left was a few Night spinners, and my some of my HQ and the Vibro's. Certainly not enough to take on the Onagers and remaining Skorpius. I got as far as tying them up for a turn, but could't keep the pressure up.

[NatBrannigan]

What weapons did you take on the Knight? It's CP heavy but you can put him in the Vigilus Wraith detachment and give him the Spirit Seers 4++ for 2 CP a turn. That way you can kit him out with a pair of Heavy wraith cannons? Of course thats a CP for the detachment and then 2 CPs a turn which is a lot...

 

One of the Goonhammer guys played around with a Wraith Knight for a while, might be worth checking his reports out? I think it was the only Wratihy thing he had though. 

[Prot]

Thanks to some people on the forum here I did try that Vigilus detachment. I can't get a double Battalion in, and your suspicion is correct... it's just way too CP hungry for me. But yes, it was very cool while it lasted. Those games where you are hot on that 4++ is a lot of fun, and those Heavy Wraith Cannons look really cool (again I'm a fan of the aesthetic of the model so maybe it's just me!)

 

Also it was recommended to me that I check out Goonhammer for that reason, and I did. But his experiment was definitely short lived.I did read his reports though for sure. A lot of this was brought up (several pages ago) in this thread, so I've kind of come full circle with the Wraith units.You're right in that it's the only Wraith thing he brought, so he wasn't suffering from the footprint/board control issue I currently fight against.

 

What I like is my version is sitting at 374 with the suncannon shield. The other version can get lucky and pound some serious wounds off of vehicles. Often I thought... (and I know this is crazy) but since the CA19 point reduction I actually thought it might be worth running 3 Wraithknights! (Probably for certain with that detachment.) 

 

I've seen people play heavy competition (ITC / LVO / etc) with 3 chaos superheavies

[Prot]

So a minor update....

 

After being sidetracked a bit, I decided to pull out the Eldar project for a game tonight and give it another go.  I may end up changing direction within this army, but for now I'll see if my past experiences give me a better chance of winning with the Wraith based list.

 

I won't know who I play but the list should be something like:

 

-Farseer Skyrunner

-Warlock Skyrunner

-Autarch Skyrunner

-Spiritseer

 

- 2 x 5 Rangers

- 5 Dire Avengers (Bladestorm)

 

- 5 Axe Wraiths in Serpent 

- 5 D Scythe Wraiths in Serpent

 

- Wraithlord w/EML

- 2 x Nightspinners

- 3 x Vibro Cannons

 

- Wraithknight Suncannon and Shield.

 

I just suffered a loss (a week ago?) against AdMech. It was brutally one sided. This list doesn't change at all. I had first turn vs. AdMech and I thought it was going very well, and I even suffered very few losses in T1, and made close combat in my T2 but after his retreat, the AdMech were able to unload a crazy amount of firepower killing every 'wraith' keyword on the field and I just couldn't come back from that. It was scary though because I saw even without anything going 'wrong' or failing any buffs, my army disappeared like a fart in the wind.

 

I continue the wraith dream, but it may end here. The Wraithknight has this bizarre side effect. For 374 points can I truly say anything catches bullets better? Probably not, I think the problem is the Suncannon, and Scatters really don't do a darn thing. The random shots can make for a nothing turn of results, and really the WK needs to get into CC and stomp.

 

I think the WK is okay, however mixed with more Wraith units is where I believe I'm struggling to see a return on the investment. The axes don't shoot. The DScythes are short, and that makes getting First Blood or threatening in T1 very hard.

 

I still think the flyers are incredibly overrated in today's meta. (But keep in mind I only use "eldar" flyers). However when I pull the WK, I get two in, and they change the dynamic by increasing my first round killing power substantially. But they die very easily in the meta I'm in.

 

So there's give and take. There's very little room for mistake with this low model army, and it has to move a lot to be effective. But I still believe it has the tools. Perhaps unless I face Tau. Tau just have everything needed to deflect a lot of what I'm doing here.

 

We'll see. If anyone has some list advice, I still have some time to make some minor changes.

[Prot]

Finished a Wraithlord finally!

(More pics: https://prot40k.blog/2020/02/09/prots-chaos-knights-and-eldar-hobby-update/ )

- I had a game against Blood Angels. It was rough.

Basic highlights/low lights:

- I went second. But got the map where you play the long way, or 24" away with Hammer and Anvil.

- My Wraithknight was untouched in T1 as a result, I get to put Fortune on him in T2 and send him up against a Vindicator using Ghostwalk to ensure my T1 charge. It was a risk, but my opponent rolled super duper hot. I took a Vindicator round in face, and he rolled 6 damage to boot... that was overwatch!

- His twin Whirlwinds were super annoying. They out ranged me and my twin Night spinners, and my Vibro's. I had no deep threat so they went uncontested and plinked away at me all game (They are an amazing value now at... I want to say sub 90 points each?)

- Vibro Cannons had their worst game ever. That's okay, I have a good sample size now and know they just got unlucky.

- Wraithknight kills a Vindicator, and then dies unceremoniously from tons of shooting from Termie missiles, Vindicator shots, Librarian Dreadnought fire and Smite... etc. I hardly saved any Fortune rolls. He dies T2. It's worth its own debate, however the big discussion in my mind with this guy is: Is he worth the one-two turns he lasts in this meta? He did tank a full turn of firepower for the army, He killed half a vindicator in return.

- Let me see if I can upload a picture or two here.....

So I take 6 wounds going in, destroy the vindicator, but am easily taken down by whirlwinds, another vindicator, and some termies, and the Libby Dreadnought.

I counter with some nasty counter punch from my Wraith Axe/shield dudes. I only passed one out of 4 powers this turn, and as a result I was seriously on my back foot:

- My Wraiths here get a charge off (previous turn) from their Serpent, and they receive Protect. I fail Jinx on his termies. I fail Smite. I fail Fortune on the Wraiths. It was bad even with rerolls AND Seer Council in effect.

- I only kill 2 Termies, fail to hurt his Libby Dread. This combat would go on for 3 turns, before I finally win it with only 2 of my 5 Wriaths Left. I rolled horribly all game but this squad made good on most of their Invuln saves.

- I was fearful of losing my HQ's because as my frontline of Wraiths dissipated I could see a problem hiding my HQ's.

- The following scene on the top of the table (the other half of my deployment zone) was even more depressing, and bordered on the obscene!

- So here's basically how this unfolded:

- BA Deepstrike 2 characters with Banners to help with rerolls, attacks, etc. The third character he comes in with is the white guy. I have a nickname for him I can't say on the forum, but I think he's technically a Sanqinary HQ guy...crazy good in any game I've faced him. Nearly godlike. His body guard ALSO came in with him (the black dudes.. Sanquinairy guard.).

- the BA May have made all their charges against my Wraiths at the bottom of the table with his Termies, and scouts, etc, but here, in this picture, he fails EVERY single charge against my Loaded Wave Serpent. He was really disappointed in this, but I don't think it was a huge deal because I am very confident her could not have 'wrapped' the vehicle from there, and therefore my DScythe Wraiths would have gotten out anyway... but there you go, he fails a few charges, and therefore won't charge with the rest anyway.

- So in my turn I get my dudes out of the Serpent, they fire all Scythe Flamers who I believe were hit 9 times. (not great, but with a 2+ save, he's in trouble.) OF COURSE he plays " Transhuman Physiology"!!! So my 'to wound' rolls turn into a 4+ instead of... I believe a 2+. And since I failed "Doom" there's literally nothing I can do about it. I do 3 wounds total. He saves 1 on a 6+ and another on his 5++ FnP! I take out exactly one half of one model! That has left me in such a bad state, and he is now free to attack at will.

- Now his turn comes up, he moves all those guys and this is even crazier... he can't stop me from overwatch (he doesn't have the 'no overwatch relic toting Smash Captain' in this list). So I'm thinking this is it right? He charges with the entire Sanquinary Guard, I hit 11 times in overwatch! YES! Take that space goons... no Transhuman Physiology this time!!! I wound him 10 times as a result. His save is 6+ (because I failed Jinx).

(Drumroll please...) He rolls five 6 up saves, and then three 5++ FnP saves. Meaning, I have wounded him a staggering, 1 time. That means in two turns of shooting, I have now removed a grand total of 1 model from that squad. I am backed in my zone up there, and now he has charged my best defense to those goons, and the White HQ is (bizzarely) pulling ahead to take on a Serpent. The other HQ's split up and start punching Vibro Cannons in the face.

I'm in HUGE trouble. His Guard annihilate the poor, useless, Dscythe Wraiths, but somehow his super HQ literally falls 1 wound short of killing my Wave Serpent. This is key, you'll see why in a minute....

- I quickly figure out my best case scenario. Down field is still out of the question. I take a healthy Wave Serpent, and charge downfield towards his remaining Vindicator. That works, I have shut it down for a turn....

- I get all buffs off on my Axe Shield Wraiths. With 3 models left, I kill his Termies, and Libby Dread (Finally! But in my defense without Psychic buffs, this army and this squad particularly are lethargic).

- The big problem is at the top of the board though. I now have 'decent' control of the bottom of the board, and am about to overtake him in Maelstrom points, even though I'm going extinct faster than... err, the Eldar race.

- I retreat my 1 wound Wave Serpent from his "White" Sanquinary Hq. I ignore his banner HQ's even though they are destroying my Vibro's for single kill points every turn.

- I hit his White Sanguinary HQ with Jinx, and Doom. Then (another drum roll please): I shoot my 2 Night Spinners, 5 remaining Rangers, Wave Serpent Cannons, and Wriathlord EML at his HQ and with all those buffs, I fail to kill him. I have nothing left to shoot at him. He feels like he's going to live because my closest 'stabby' unit is my Wraithlord at 11 inches! But then I tell him I am dispersing the shields from my 1 wound Serpent at him (I saved 1 Cp for this moment). I get it off, and put 2 wounds on him, he fails his FnP and I get 4 points out of that kill, which includes Slay the Warlord.

- He still has a full sanqinary Guard squad, and Banner HQ's, and Whirlwinds, with Intercessors and one Vindicator, but he loses the game.

Insane. I shouldn't have won at all. I think my opponent disagreed with me, but my honest assessment was he was blowing the heck out of my army and his aggressive HQ lost him the game. I think he was saving so much stuff, and getting used to touching, and therfore annihilating everything he touched, that he thought his HQ would do the same, but it didn't happen with that serpent. Then his HQ became the closest model to many of my units and I barely did it, but pulled off the kill that would net me victory.

So while this is a 'win'. I consider it a 'playing win'. Which is how most of my games go with this army. I'm typically quite out destroyed and nearly tabled with most of my games with my Eldar. It's not a great army, and MUST have psychic firing on all cylinders. It's definitely one of my least forgiving, and difficult armies to play.

I am happy to have won, but it felt a bit... dirty how I had to do it. I was severely depleted. At this point I think I am dissasembling some of the list. The Wraithknight has to go. I need some mobility back. I don't do near enough damage.

When I asked my opponent what he felt in my army was most damaging. He had trouble finding a unit that did anything of consequence, but he did think the dual Night Spinners were really decent against his Primaris units (I had no cover on my army).

And that's the latest from my Eldar Follies.

[Ulfast]

I think its great that you keep fighting with your eldars and don´t be ashame for a win. 

[NatBrannigan]

At this point i'm thinking your next purchase should be some new dice and maybe a lucky rabbits foot? A common theme seems to be people rolling hot against you!

 

I'm not convinced by the D-scythe Wratihs myself, good on overwatch but I'd pretty much always want the cannons unless i'm advancing and then shooting expensive 1 wound models like Vanguard Vets. They're also more expensive so i'm a cannon man all the way.

 

That Wraith Knight... I'm just not sure. It's a lot of firepower to tank mind you.

 

Are you getting much use out of the Autarch or Night Spinners? Not seen them really mentioned in any battle reports yet.

[Prot]

At this point i'm thinking your next purchase should be some new dice and maybe a lucky rabbits foot? A common theme seems to be people rolling hot against you!

 

I'm not convinced by the D-scythe Wratihs myself, good on overwatch but I'd pretty much always want the cannons unless i'm advancing and then shooting expensive 1 wound models like Vanguard Vets. They're also more expensive so i'm a cannon man all the way.

 

That Wraith Knight... I'm just not sure. It's a lot of firepower to tank mind you.

 

Are you getting much use out of the Autarch or Night Spinners? Not seen them really mentioned in any battle reports yet.

 

Hehe... you wouldn't believe this but I ordered some new dice. I really couldn't believe how well my opponent made those invuln 6 ups and FnP.

 

I feel the same way about most of the units you mentioned:

Wraithknight - Not great, but he takes a lot of hits.

Autarch - Good observation. I think it's a combination of two things: 1. I use him too conservatively. 2. He's being used for reroll aura's in the backfield too much.

Night Spinners - They did alright this game. I flip between using 1 or 2. This game they took out the Blood Angel Suppressors, and earlier (and most importantly) they took out all 3 Eliminator dudes. (Removing cover, and having a damage two shot was nice.). However, you're right there are games they just sit there and plink away at nothing... like Orks for example is a bad match up for them.

 

I broke down and ordered a bunch of stuff. I'm really stuck, but I think I'm moving away from some of this expensive stuff as it has too low a return on investment.  

 

I still want to bring some fun units back in... Banshees I want to experiment with. Because I want to make the list more aggressive. So cheap Banshees, some Shining Spears, and maybe even Yncarne. 

 

Not sure exactly how to do this, but my list was so defensive the last few games, I really can't push back. Also I really didn't like how the Hammer and Anvil map worked against my slower, low model count. I couldn't interact with his twin Whirlwinds all game. If he had access to Thunderfires it could have been worse. 

[NatBrannigan]

Thunderfires will get a massive points hike soon i'm sure, maybe Whirlwinds as well.

 

Nightspinners do look good to take out hidden units, either 2 or 0 for me I think.

 

Maybe drop the Autarch? That would free up a fair number of points and i'm not sure the backfield re-rolls are worth the investment, especially with Expert Crafters in the mix. Any list I look at starts with 3 Fire Prisms at the moment because linked fire is superb and they can reach out and kill something big. I know their not Wraiths but they are nasty and reliable.

 

On the Wraith front have you looked at a Wraithseer at all? An actually affordable model from Forgeworld with some decent rules. For 135 points with a D-cannon it looks a bit of a beast. 6+ FNP for a Wraith unit from a psychic power as well.

 

Shining spears seem to be a staple of tournament lists as well and you've mentioned them, I think they need a fair bit of psychic support though which you've mentioned is already getting trick to juggle. Tricky these Space Elves aren't they...

[Prot]

I agree.. in my style of list the Autarch isn't that great. He does however get me one or two CP a game which is nice.

 

And I've just added a Spiritseer to the list. The Wraith with Axes are a fun unit. They are working, but they don't do any significant damage. I'm making some slight modifications as I need to have more substantial damage in the list and not just stuff that lives. Wraiths and Serpents are great, but they don't really kill anything. 

 

I'm trying to get Reapers back in. The Wraithknight obviously has to go for me to get some of these units in. We'll see.. maybe the flyers too as much as I don't think they are a good match up in a lot of cases, I realize I have to be able to get to my my opponents' back line.

[Kolgrim DeathHowl]

The Wraithlord turned out really nice, the design is really well done!

[NatBrannigan]

Axe Wraiths out the Webway? Looks well worth it on a big unit and several tricks to help get that charge off available as well. 

[Prot]

I haven't liked them out of the webway. They are either super focused by the opponent, are you have to put them in the middle of nowhere. Also you have to remember their 'buffing' units have to catch up to them or be where they need to be to support them. It gets tricky. 

 

The shooty Wraiths are okay out of the webway.

 

Alternatively a guy at my GW store is playing 10 on foot, as I was doing for a while, but the Serpent is very good at extending the units' immediate threat range, and it carries a support Spirit Seer to the party as well. No one likes shooting at the Serpent which is a bonus and although Serpents don't do anything, I have found added value in taking the Wraith units out, then charging the Serpents into multiple combats before the Wraiths charge.

 

The biggest problem here is I think if you're a Wraith unit fan (as I am) then you want to use more of them. But you hit this diminishing return number. The trick is finding out the number. In early games when I used 3 squads of Wraiths AND the Wraithlord I just had no real damage in the army, and way too small of a footprint.

 

So as I trim the Wraith component, those units are replaced with much more potent (if fragile) units.

[NatBrannigan]

I'm looking at 10 Axe / Shield Wraiths out the Webway. Spiritseer in a Wave Serpent with the Falchou's wing relic will easily keep up with them. Assuming you take the Vigilus detachment that gives those Wraiths re-roll charges which is a good start. Ghostwalk gives them +2 to charge rolls which starts to make that charge out of deep strike very reliable. The Wraith Seer also has a power that lets you roll and additional die and discard the lowest which pushes those odds even higher. It would be harder for the Wraith seer to keep up assuming you want to shoot his weapons but I like the look of it. 

 

Just proving you right when you say lots of Eldar units need Psychic support but that's just how Eldar play, and it's pretty fluffy really.

[Prot]

The 10 dudes with axes is tough to deep strike. I don't mind starting it on the table, but of course you're running your buffs exclusively on that unit to keep it alive, as it gets heavily targeted (this is partially why I switched to a Serpent based 5 man unit).

 

So I decided to go outside the box and perhaps make a more dynamic, and 'fun' list with hopefully some punch by picking up a Yncarne! Here are my 2020 army considerations for anyone who's curious: http://prot40k.blog/2020/02/18/my-40k-prospects-for-the-2020-season/

 

I never really post WIP pics, so here he/she is so far. I started with some contrast just to get the details brought out, I made my own contrast to do the purples, and just then went to town a bit on it.

 

So it started like this:

 

And a few hours later it looked like this:

 

 

And that's a few hours in and not a ton of progress. The colour shift in the energy stuff is pretty close and the base purples are mostly done now but the hair needs more work, and the rest of the model is.... well a ton to paint really. lol

Edited February 18, 2020 by Prot

[SkimaskMohawk]

I was thinking of getting yncarne in the near future. How is the assemble and how hard would it be to do a sub assembly of spirit energy and her just by herself?