If Dark Angels were a Supplement

[Zustiur]

Let's ignore the question of should we/shouldn't we be a separate Codex, and simply have some fun imagining what a theoretical Dark Angels supplement would look like if we had been released as a supplement to Codex Space Marines this time around. Friendlier gaming groups may be happy to incorporate all of these rules until such time as GW decides to update our codex. I'll try to keep this as much in line with existing supplements as possible (I only have the Imperial Fists supplement for reference). For this reason, I'm also trying to avoid straying too much into wishlist territory. This is a 'what would GW do' thread, not a 'what do I want' thread. We already have a great thread for wishlisting.

 

Side note: I personally feel that some Dark Angels fans go plasma mad. Yes we have a supply of older and more reliable weapons; no that doesn’t mean we only use plasma or that we’re actually favouring it in our training. I’ve therefore been a little more subtle with the plasma changes than you might expect.

 

Let’s get started.

 

First up, a page unique to Dark Angels supplement, this doesn’t match any existing 6 supplement because those books don’t require it.

 

* Paragraph removing the use of these datasheets from the main Space Marine codex:

** Chaplain in Terminator Armour

** Company Champion

** Ancient in Terminator Armour

** Terminator Squad

** Terminator Assault Squad

** Vanguard Veteran Squad

** Sternguard Veteran Squad

** Ironclad Dreadnought (1)

** Centurion Assault Squad (1)

** Centurion Devastator Squad (1)

** Thunderfire Cannon (1)

** Stormhawk Interceptor (1)

** Stormtalon Gunship (1)

1= I'm excluding these out of tradition, but see no specific fluff reason why we can't have them.

 

* Paragraph making the following modifications to existing codex Space Marines datasheets:

** Captain replaced with Master

** Units which gain the Deathwing Keyword

*** Librarian (2)

*** Primaris Librarian (2)

*** Librarian in Terminator Armour (2)

*** Librarian in Phobos Armour (2)

*** Master in Terminator Armour (2)

*** Master in Cataphractii Armour (2)

*** Cataphractii Terminator Squad

*** Tartaros Terminator Squad

*** Venerable Dreadnought

2= These units also gain the Inner Circle rule

** Units which gain the Ravenwing Keyword and the Jink rule

*** Land Speeders

*** Attack Bike Squad

*** Bike Squad

 

JINK

If this unit Advances, it gains a 4+ invulnerable save against all shooting attacks until the start of your next Movement phase. In addition if this unit Advances, it treats bolters and plasma talons as Assault weapons until the end of the turn.

 

INNER CIRCLE

This unit automatically passes Morale tests. In addition, you can re-roll failed hit rolls in the Fight phase for attacks by this unit that target a Heretic Astartes unit.

 

And now for the usual supplement pages:

UNIQUE DATASHEETS

As per the current Dark Angels codex, except:

* Azrael gets Chapter Master re-worded to the new standard wording.

* Azrael's Lion's Wrath changes to 1 mortal wound rather than slain.

* Belial ignores modifiers to hit in the shooting phase (I included this because of his fluff about accuracy)

* Sammael On Corvex replaces Plasma Cannon with Heavy Plasma Cannon

* Interrogator-Chaplains switch to the new Litanies wording and may take two litanies and use two litanies per round.

* Asmodai gets primaris treatment (he's my guess out of all the characters that may get updated)

* Chapter Ancient gets options for four different banners (they may have different point values):

** Chapter Standard (as current)

** Standard of Fortitude. 5+ Feel No Pain bubble just like the Blood Angels standard

** Standard of Devastation. All Dark Angels units within 6" are treated as having stood still for the purpose of Bolter Discipline.

** Standard of Retribution. +1 to Attack Characteristic within 6". Does not stack with Ravenwing or Deathwing banner.

* Plasma Talons switch to Rapid Fire 2

* Plasma storm battery becomes heavy 2d6, and only does a single mortal wound for overheat. Delete the clause about not being able to use it for the rest of the battle. I see it as an on par alternative to the Marco Plasma Incinerator with lower strength and AP, but higher damage. Also, there’s clearly two barrels on the model, hence 2d6.

* Stasis Grenades become a weapon profile option: Models in a unit which is hit by one or more weapons with this special rule suffer a -1 penalty to their hit rolls until the end of the turn.

* Rad Grenades become a weapon profile option: Models in a unit without the Vehicle keyword which is hit by one or more weapons with this special rule reduce their Toughness characteristic by 1 until the end of the turn.

* Ravenwing Standard gains the usual +1 to leadership, does not stack with other banners

* Deathwing Standard gains the usual +1 to leadership, does not stack with other banners

* The Nephilim Jetfighter could take a leaf out of the Stormhawk's book; +1 to hit units that Fly. -1 to be hit by units that Fly. Either that, or change its fluff to say 'ground attack' instead of 'air superiority'.

 

UNFORGIVEN

In this section you'll find rules for Battle-forged armies... blah blah blah.

 

ABILITIES

If your army is battle forged, then in addition to the Detachment abilities gained from Codex: Space Marines, units in your army with the Combat Doctrines ability (see Codex: Space Marines) gain the Legacy of the Lion ability so long as, with the exception of Unaligned units, every unit from your army is a Dark Angels unit or every unit from your army is from the same Dark Angels successor Chapter (see below).

 

GRIM RESOLVE

You can re-roll all hit rolls of 1 for this unit whenever it shoots (including when firing Overwatch) so long as it did not move in its prior Movement phase.

In addition, this unit can never lose more than one model as the result of any single failed Morale test.

 

LEGACY OF THE LION

Whilst the Devastator Doctrine is active, you can re-roll hit rolls in the Shooting phase for a unit which did not move in its prior Movement phase. (i.e. all hits instead of just 1s but not in overwatch).

Whilst the Tactical Doctrine is active, units with the Ravenwing keyword can re-roll all hit rolls of 1 when they shoot (including when firing Overwatch).

Whilst the Assault Doctrine is active, units with the Deathwing keyword can re-roll all hit rolls of 1 in the Fight phase.

 

Alternative suggestion: Whilst the Tactical Doctrine is active, you gain 1 Command Point at the start of the Battle Round. Note that this counts against the 1 per Battle Round limit for Brilliant Strategist.

 

Alternative, alternative suggestion: some sort of boost to swords of all types. I prefer the first idea though but I feel this option is the closest to what GW would likely do. None of the other chapters get a different rule for each doctrine and they seem to have a love affair with the idea of Dark Angels being a gun-line that somehow is also in combat.

 

SUCCESSOR CHAPTERS

Usual text, with Angels of Absolution as the example and noting Grim Resolve as an option for Inheritors of the Primarch.

Possible additional clause allowing Azrael to lead successor Chapters in his role as Supreme Grand Master.

 

Warlord Traits

If your Warlord is a Character model from a Dark Angels successor Chapter...

usual wording applies.

 

Chapter Relics

Usual wording applies for Relics of the Rock vs Special-Issue Wargear

 

Stratagems

Usual text

 

Psychic Powers

Usual text

 

Tactical Objectives

Usual text

 

 

 

WARLORD TRAITS

1 Fury of the Lion - no change

2 Courage of the First Legion - no change

3 Brilliant Strategist - no change

4 Huntsman - no change

5 Master of Manoeuvre - no change

6 Stubborn Tenacity – 5+ if the Warlord has the Terminator keyword

 

RELICS OF THE ROCK

Foe-Smiter - no change

Shroud of Heroes - no change

Mace of Redemption - no change

Lion's Roar - changes to deal 1 mortal wound instead of slain

The Eye of the Unseen - no change

Power Field Generator 3" bubble of 5+ Invulnerable save for Infantry and Bikes

 

SPECIAL-ISSUE WARGEAR

Heavenfall Blade

Artificer Armour

Master-Crafted Weapon

Digital Weapons

Displacer Field (4++ save), can consolidate in any direction

Volkite Fusil – 9”, Pistol 1, S5, AP-1, D3. Replaces a bolt pistol.

 

INTERROMANCY DISCIPLINE

1 Mind Worm – reduced to Warp Charge 5. This effect lasts until your next Psychic phase.

2 Aversion – no change

3 Righteous Repugnance – reduced to Warp Charge 6

4 Trephination – reduced to Warp Charge 6. Instead of 2D6, pick the highest, it’s 1D6 with a roll of 1 or 2 counts as 3 instead.

5 Engulfing Fear – reduced to Warp Charge 5

6 Mind Wipe – reduced to Warp Charge 6

 

STRATAGEMS

16 stratagems; starting with the usual 3 strats for double warlord trait, warlord trait for non-warlord and sergeant with special issue wargear (limited to heavenfall blade, master crafted weapon, digital weapons, Volkite Fusil).

 

Deathwing Assault – now 1CP/2CP. Otherwise unchanged.

 

Never Forgive, Never Forget! – no change

 

The Lion and the Wolf – no change

 

Hunt the Fallen – no change from FAQ version

 

Weapons from the Dark Age – 1CP, 2CP if more than 5 plasma weapons in the unit

 

Intractable – 1 CP for Infantry and Bikes. 2CP for vehicles

 

Speed of the Raven – no change

 

Secret Agenda – no change

 

Fortress of Shields – Can be used in any phase and lasts until the end of the turn.

 

Ravenwing Attack Squadron – Copied across from Vilgilus. Makes the Vigilus version obsolete.

 

Summon the Deathwing – 2CP Use this Stratagem at the end of the Movement phase. A Deathwing unit may use its Teleport Strike ability to arrive as reinforcements on the battlefield wholly within 6” of a Ravenwing Bike or Ravenwing Attack Bike unit and more than 5” from any enemy models.

 

Salvation Through Suffering – 2 CP Use this stratagem in any phase, when a Dark Angels unit from your army within 3” of an objective marker would lose a wound. Until the end of the phase, roll one D6 for that wound and for each other wound a model in that unit would lose this phase. On a 4+ that wound is not lost.

 

Stasis Grenade – 2 CP Use this stratagem in the Shooting phase. Select a Character model with the Inner Circle keyword to make an attack against an enemy Character model. If that attack hits, the target model may only be chosen to fight in the Fight phase after all other eligible units have fought, even if they charged or have an ability that would allow them to fight first. This effect lasts until the beginning of your next turn.

 

TACTICAL OBJECTIVES

I’m not sure what to do with these. I’m open to suggestions! Here are the problems as I see them:

11 Not One Step Back. It’s fine, unless you draw it in turn 5, 6 or 7 in which case, it may be impossible to score. It would work slightly better if cards were drawn at the start of a battle round instead of the start of a turn, but it’s still flawed.

12 No Forgiveness. Is fine

13 Confess! Requires that your army contain an Interrogator-Chaplain or Librarian. This should be scrapped entirely and a new objective made.

14 Seize and Interrogate. Fine.

15 Flawless Strategy. This cannot be scored on turn 1, or turns 4-7. It’s only possible on turn 2 and 3 IF you included both Ravenwing and Deathwing in your army, haven’t deployed that Deathwing unit yet and haven’t lost your Ravenwing unit(s) already. This should be scrapped entirely and a new objective made which does not have any impact on how your list is built.

16 The Path of Redemption. Make a suicide charge. No really. Just die. This should be scrapped entirely and a new objective made.

 

 

I’m not going to waste time speculating on points values for our unique units this close to the release of Chapter Approved 2019. I'll save that for wishlisting after it's released.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Seems spot on. Sometimes I wish DA went back to supplement so we could have all the goodies that base Codex has.

[jaxom]

Part 1

 

Let's ignore the question of should we/shouldn't we be a separate Codex, and simply have some fun imagining what a theoretical Dark Angels supplement would look like if we had been released as a supplement to Codex Space Marines this time around…. I'll try to keep this as much in line with existing supplements as possible (I only have the Imperial Fists supplement for reference).…This is a 'what would GW do' thread, not a 'what do I want' thread.

 

I love the idea. Any critiques or suggestions I’m offering up are based on mirroring the design decisions we’ve seen so far in the supplements. I’m basing this on my reads of all the supplements. If you can get a hold of one to read then the Ultramarines supplement is the most useful for this exercise because they have the most unique datasheets (a unit with sold models unique to that chapter). 

 

Side note: I personally feel that some Dark Angels fans go plasma mad. Yes we have a supply of older and more reliable weapons; no that doesn’t mean we only use plasma or that we’re actually favouring it in our training. I’ve therefore been a little more subtle with the plasma changes than you might expect.

 

The Salamanders supplement suggests we do the opposite; the designers took the flamer paradigm and ran with it. The Dark Angels paradigm started trending to plasma around 4th edition and never stopped. We have, over time, seen the introduction of a super-plasma land speeder, plasma-mantleted bikers, and plasma cannons in tactical squads (in editions where codex tactical squads couldn’t take them) and in our terminator squads.

 

First up, a page unique to Dark Angels supplement, this doesn’t match any existing 6 supplement because those books don’t require it.

 

 I don’t think this is necessary for two reasons. The first is that the supplements never remove options (I’m not sure how to phrase the whole Black Templar/Librarian thing, but I don’t consider that to be equivalent). The second has to do with how we can alter C:SM units (what they are or how they act) using stratagems, warlord traits, and detachment rules.

 

 

* Paragraph making the following modifications to existing codex Space Marines datasheets:

 

** Captain replaced with Master

 

** Units which gain the Deathwing Keyword

 

To summarize my additional thoughts here: we can take a page from the Raven Guard and Iron Hands. The background section can establish the unique Dark Angel names for positions; e.g. like how the Raven Guard have Shadow-Captains (captains) and the Iron Hands have Forge Fathers (techmarines).

 

JINK

…. 

INNER CIRCLE

They’re not really universal for the army. Jink should be a datasheet ability and I’ll talk about Inner Circle when we get to Warlord Traits and Stratagems. 

 

UNIQUE DATASHEETS

 

As per the current Dark Angels codex

 

Okay, this one’s a deep dive, so please bear with me. I don’t think it’s a big deal, in the goal of becoming more like a supplement, to remove Deathwing Terminators and Ravenwing Bike/Attack Bike/Land Speeder units. There are other places we can add mechanics and flavor to modify the already existing C:SM units to replace the loss. Already in existence are Skilled Riders stratagem and Intractable stratagem before we even start having to make more. If we look at what our Deathwing and Ravenwing boxes can build, each kit’s existence is still justified by their build options just looking at truly unique units in addition to the units that are in, or similar enough to be replaced by units in, C:SM. 

 

The Deathwing box builds (using C:SM naming conventions):

1. Captain in Terminator Armor (already a C:SM unit)
2. Ancient in Terminator Armor (already a C:SM unit)
3. Apothecary in Terminator Armor (unique to supplement)
4. Company Champion in Terminator Armor (unique to supplement)
5. Deathwing Knights (unique to supplement)
6. Lieutenant in Terminator Armor (unique to supplement, maybe, I think we need to work in a Talonmaster equivalent for the First Company)

The heavy weapons and any unused weapons (storm bolters, powerfists, etc) or other extra bits can be saved to spruce up a normal terminator box (like an upgrade sprue, except you also got characters or a unit of DW Knights, too). The Watcher in the Dark could easily be a pre-game equipment stratagem. The only problem is the plasma cannon. C:SM Terminators don’t have access to that in the Terminator Heavy Weapons list. Possible solutions: make it a weapon option for the Lieutenant in Terminator Armor (Ravenwing lieutenants get twin-linked assault cannons, ‘nuff said), have it be a pre-game equipment stratagem, or have it be special-issue wargear.

 

The good Ravenwing box builds (using C:SM naming conventions):

1. Captain on Bike (already a C:SM unit)
2. Ancient on Bike (unique to supplement)
3. Apothecary on Bike (unique to supplement)
4. Company Champion on Bike (unique to supplement)
5. Black Knights (unique to supplement)

The bad Ravenwing box is the one with the Ravenwing upgrade sprue and the bikers with a core design from second edition. Let it die. Instead, we could see it bundled in with the Land Speeder kit (much more recent with, what, a 5th edition release?) and sold as a Talonmaster box.

 

[jaxom]

Part 2

 

* Azrael gets Chapter Master re-worded to the new standard wording.

 

* Azrael's Lion's Wrath changes to 1 mortal wound rather than slain.

 

I’d even go so far as to make it permanently Str8 D2 and doesn’t overheat; we’ve seen that with other relic plasma weapons.

 

* Belial ignores modifiers to hit in the shooting phase (I included this because of his fluff about accuracy)

 

 

Belial has the Huntsman warlord trait; he can snipe characters with a storm bolter. If you want more rules to reflect his fluff then a 5+ or 6+ Ignore Wounds because of his ridiculous pain tolerance would work well.

 

Additionally, Belial (as MotDW in its First Company form) is an opportunity to stress that even our C:SM datasheets are Deathwing. Change his Rites of Battle so Dark Angel units reroll 1s to hit, but if they have the terminator keyword they can reroll any misses and/or that they gain Defenders of Humanity even if not a Troop.

 

* Sammael On Corvex replaces Plasma Cannon with Heavy Plasma Cannon

 

I’m guessing this is just so Sammael can’t explode himself with a single shot? I recommend Sammael’s Rites of Battle be altered similarly to Beliel’s (just the reroll part) except for bike, land speeder, and flyer keywords. 

 

* Interrogator-Chaplains switch to the new Litanies wording and may take two litanies and use two litanies per round.

 

I’d drop the Interrogator-Chaplain as a unique datasheet because I think it makes more sense that the model eventually gets dropped (currently “Temporarily out of stock Online”) and consolidated with the generic model. More detail later, but I think Interrogator-Chaplain should be a character upgrade stratagem (the sort where you spend CP before the battle and it gives more stuff to a character). The two litanies per round is the realm of Masters of Sanctity  (iPA: Fire & Fury; I think it’ll be shoe-horned into C:SM eventually)

 

* Asmodai gets primaris treatment (he's my guess out of all the characters that may get updated)

 

Shrug, he has the most recent model and is intensely conservative, but it could be a nice change of pace from captains, chapter masters, and librarians. Other special character chaplains have gotten two litanies per round; let’s give it to Asmodai, too.

 

* Chapter Ancient gets options for four different banners (they may have different point values):

….

 

** Standard of Fortitude. 5+ Feel No Pain bubble just like the Blood Angels standard

 

** Standard of Devastation. All Dark Angels units within 6" are treated as having stood still for the purpose of Bolter Discipline.

 

** Standard of Retribution. +1 to Attack Characteristic within 6". Does not stack with Ravenwing or Deathwing banner.

These should be ANCIENT only relics. Chapter Ancient should not a unique datasheet and instead we have a Chapter Ancient stratagem (PA: Fire & Fury; I think it’ll be shoe-horned into C:SM eventually). We gain design room and list flexibility by streamlining the effects. We can then load the relic banners with more interesting powers.

 

[jaxom]

Part 3

 

* Plasma Talons switch to Rapid Fire 2

 

* Plasma storm battery becomes heavy 2d6, and only does a single mortal wound for overheat. Delete the clause about not being able to use it for the rest of the battle. I see it as an on par alternative to the Marco Plasma Incinerator with lower strength and AP, but higher damage. Also, there’s clearly two barrels on the model, hence 2d6.

 

* Stasis Grenades become a weapon profile option: Models in a unit which is hit by one or more weapons with this special rule suffer a -1 penalty to their hit rolls until the end of the turn.

 

* Rad Grenades become a weapon profile option: Models in a unit without the Vehicle keyword which is hit by one or more weapons with this special rule reduce their Toughness characteristic by 1 until the end of the turn.

 

I’d either leave them as is or change how they are altered. For example, Stasis and Rad Grenades could be Special Issue Wargear. I feel that changes to the stats of unique weapons in unique units (plas-talons, PSB, flails and halberds) is more in the realm of wish-listing and/or tweaking unit power.

 

* Ravenwing Standard gains the usual +1 to leadership, does not stack with other banners

 

* Deathwing Standard gains the usual +1 to leadership, does not stack with other banners

 

The Death Ancient can be removed  in favor of conformity to C:SM and we end up using the Ancient in Terminator Armor. Ancient on Bike would be the supplement’s version of Ravenwing Ancient. Both should have the same Astartes Banner rule as the other ancients and leave any special effects for relics.

 

* The Nephilim Jetfighter could take a leaf out of the Stormhawk's book; +1 to hit units that Fly. -1 to be hit by units that Fly. Either that, or change its fluff to say 'ground attack' instead of 'air superiority'.

Word. Based on descriptions, the Neph should be like the Stormhawk, with the Interceptor rule, while the Dark Talon should have Strafing Run. I consider this appropriate as to match the combat roles of similar units throughout the game.

 

gain the Legacy of the Lion ability 

 

Personally, I think this would be a great place to define the army as Unforgiven; “gain the Unforgiven ability.” Legacy of the Lion is, however, a more similar name to the other doctrine modifying rules.

 

 

GRIM RESOLVE

 

You can reroll all hit rolls of 1 for this unit whenever it shoots (including when firing Overwatch) so long as it did not move in its prior Movement phase.

 

In addition, this unit can never lose more than one model as the result of any single failed Morale test.

 

I’d give it a little quality of life adjustment similar to other Chapter Tactics between C:SM1 and C:SM2. Basically the same, but you can always reroll 1s on Overwatch so you don’t have to try and remember if the unit moved last turn (this is more of an issue, for me at least, in end game and after I’ve playing for awhile). In addition, or alternatively, to give it the little boost that many other Chapter Tactics got, make the bonus apply to all attacks rather than just shooting (so intractably staying in combat for a second turn, instead of falling back, gives the bonus; I think that’s very narratively appropriate).

 

Part 4

 

LEGACY OF THE LION

 

Whilst the Devastator Doctrine is active, you can reroll hit rolls in the Shooting phase for a unit which did not move in its prior Movement phase. (i.e. all hits instead of just 1s but not in overwatch).

 

Whilst the Tactical Doctrine is active, units with the Ravenwing keyword can reroll all hit rolls of 1 when they shoot (including when firing Overwatch).

 

Whilst the Assault Doctrine is active, units with the Deathwing keyword can reroll all hit rolls of 1 in the Fight phase.

 

Alternative suggestion: Whilst the Tactical Doctrine is active, you gain 1 Command Point at the start of the Battle Round. Note that this counts against the 1 per Battle Round limit for Brilliant Strategist.

 

The doctrine bonus should only apply to a single doctrine. Based on the other supplements I think the low hanging fruit is +1 to wound rolls with plasma weapons during Tactical Doctrine. However, as an alternative, I think a more useful doctrine bonus which also fits the implacable nature of the Dark Angels could be: Whilst the Tactical Doctrine is active, when resolving an attack made with a Heavy weapon by a model with this ability, add 1 to the hit roll. It effectively negates moving and shooting heavy weapons (very nice for terminators, land speeder chasses, etc.) and makes stationary heavy weapons very reliable.

 

Alternative, alternative suggestion: some sort of boost to swords of all types. I prefer the first idea though but I feel this option is the closest to what GW would likely do. None of the other chapters get a different rule for each doctrine and they seem to have a love affair with the idea of Dark Angels being a gun-line that somehow is also in combat.

 

I disagree for a variety of reasons, but the two big ones are that most of our actual close combat units don’t have swords and that being a supplement makes the Dark Angels as melee capable as any other codex chapter that doesn’t go for a melee bonus chapter tactic.

 

Possible additional clause allowing Azrael to lead successor Chapters in his role as Supreme Grand Master.

 

It wouldn’t be appropriate to mix-and-match chapter keywords in this way. It doesn’t match any other supplement and the Ultramarines of the Indomitus Era are noted as having particularly close ties with and deploying with their successors as well. Other Unforgiven have their own chapter masters and the Chapter Master stratagem lets players make their own.

 

1 Fury of the Lion - no change

Groovy.

 

2 Courage of the First Legion - no change

 

This trait, Grim Resolve, high leadership, and the Rites of War warlord trait (C:SM, 6” fearless bubble and gain Defender of Humanity) are all part of why I don’t think our terminator units need to be immune to Morale tests if one really wants to push the stubborn angle in how they build their list.

 

3 Brilliant Strategist - no change

 

Groovy.

 

4 Huntsman - no change

 

Groovy. I think it wouldn’t be too much of a power spike compared to the narrative gain if it also let the character reroll wounds in close combat against FALLEN enemies.

 

5 Master of Manoeuvre - no change

 

Here’s another place we could recapture some of that Ravenwing flavor for the C:SM units. Master of Manoeuvre is currently kind of silly in that half its effect (reroll Advance) is useless for bikes (Turbo-boost) and near entirely useless for land speeds (does anyone Advance or Charge with land speeders on a regular basis?). Retain that power by having it also give a 4+ invulnerable save against shooting to bikes and land speeders within 6” that Advanced in the previous Movement phase. Sammael already gets Master of Manoeuvre, you could take it on a Talonmaster, etc.

 

6 Stubborn Tenacity – 5+ if the Warlord has the Terminator keyword

I’d use the similarity to Iron Resolve warlord trait (C:SM, +1W and 6+ ignore wounds) as a reason to replace Stubborn Tenacity with something else.

Edited December 7, 2019 by jaxom

[jaxom]

Part 5

 

 

RELICS OF THE ROCK

 

I’m just cover most of these in a more free flow manner to simplify things. The supplements all have 7 relics and 8 special-issue wargear. The special-issue wargear always includes Adamantine Mantle, Artificer Armour, Master-Crafted Weapon, Digital Weapons, and one type of bolt ammunition.

 

Foe-Smiter - It has the stats of a master-crafted stormbolter; no need for it to exist with Master-Crafted Weapon in special-issue

 

Shroud of Heroes - C:SM and the supplements are some of the design team’s best work in fitting the narrative and themes of a chapter into its relics. Shroud of Heroes has a nice narrative, but its effects tell me nothing about the chapter’s methods of war. Ghostweave Cloak (C:SM, Phobos only) has the same effect. I’d either redo the effect or drop it.

 

Dropping Foe-Smiter and Shroud of Heroes opens up two spots which we can fill with two of the sacred standards. Add in the third sacred standard and we have four more spots. Three can be filled with Mace of Redemption (update to replace either a power maul or a crozius arcanum because it fits so well with chaplains), Lion’s Roar (I agree with the QoL change), and Eye of the Unseen. I disagree with the power-field generator because I think it detracts from Azrael’s wargear and I feel it doesn’t have thematic heft. I think a relic force weapon or something for our Librarians  would be a good place to narratively reinforce the special role Librarians have in the chapter.

 

I’ll take a longer look at the sacred standards if it seems like others think they should definitely make the cut.

 

SPECIAL-ISSUE WARGEAR

 

Similar approach to the relics. Artificer Armour, Master-Crafted Weapon, and Digital Weapons are a must. That leaves four spots and one must be bolts.

 

Nemesis Bolts - Rumored to have been created by the Dark Angels during the dark days of the Horus Heresy as an alternative to Vengeance rounds. Each bolt round has a rad-membrane coating to penetrate armor and a core explosive load of molecular acid capable of overcoming even a space marines regenerative capabilities. [it’s a depleted uranium round which explodes acid all over your insides; I imagine it was popular with the Dreadwing] When you give a model this Relic, select one bolt weapon (see Codex: Space Marines) that model is equipped with. When that model is chosen to shoot with, you can choose for that weapon to fire a nemesis bolt. If you do, you can only make one attack with the weapon. When resolving that attack, the weapon wounds INFANTRY and MONSTER units on a roll of 2+, has an Armour Penetration characteristic of -3 and a Damage characteristic of 2 for that attack.

 

Heavenfall Blade - C:SM gives us access to The Burning Blade (which is very similar) and our named characters all get theirs automatically. I’d go with Blade of Caliban instead for a few reasons. First, the Heavenfall Blade fluff in the current codex is for the Blades of Caliban (I don’t know if it’s a retcon or a mistake). Second, this would let use give one to our Company Champions. Third, the difference is one less attack but one more strength and Str7 very nice. Fourth, if we let sergeants can take one which would let us make mini-characters who won one of those Unforgiven contests were a Calibanite sword is the reward (I’m leaning away from this making the sergeant list for reasons I’ll give later).

 

Displacer Field - I’d rather go with Shroud of Heroes for the name and/or fluff. If we use the Auric Aquila (from the Imperial Fist supplement) as a template then it’ll grant another bonus in addition to the 4++. Auric Aquila’s is ignore Psychic phase mortal wounds on 5+. Maybe a bonus in melee against enemy characters?

 

Volkite Fusil – Relic and SIG weapons don’t change the weapon type because it would require altering the model. Instead, this is where I’d put Stasis Grenades. Fluff description stays the same. When you give a model this Relic, select one grenade weapon [e.g. frag, krak, etc] or grenade launcher weapon [e.g. Captain in Terminator Armour’s wrist-mounted grenade launcher] that model is equipped with. When that model is chosen to shoot during the Shooting phase or Overwatch, you can choose to fire a stasis grenade. If you do, make D3 attacks with the weapon.  Until the beginning of your next turn any unit hit reduces its Movement and Charge rolls by 1” for each hit and may only be chosen to fight in the Fight phase after all other eligible units have fought, even if they charged or have an ability that allow them to fight first.

 

INTERROMANCY DISCIPLINE

 

Where the changes to bring these in line with the Warp Charge values in the supplements?

 

[jaxom]

Part 6

 

STRATAGEMS

 

16 stratagems; starting with the usual 3 strats for double warlord trait, warlord trait for non-warlord and sergeant with special issue wargear (limited to heavenfall blade, master crafted weapon, digital weapons, Volkite Fusil).

 

 

Knight of The Order - In a rare few, the chivalry and the honor of the Dark Angels legion still shines and reminds the Chapter of all they have lost and what they may one day regain. - Double Warlord Traits

Inner Circle - Those who enter the Unforgiven’s deepest circles of knowledge often become heroes of the Imperium, aware of the irony that their actions are driven by the unending hunt. - Warlord trait for non-warlord

Deathwing Sergeant - Inducted members of the Deathwing may be returned to serve in other companies as a way to gain leadership experience and to ensure their unknowing brothers do not stray from the path set for them. - Special issue wargear

 

If you like the changes I suggested regarding Stasis Grenades then I’d put them on the sergeant list (Intercessor sergeant with auxiliary grenade launcher or Aggressor Sergeant with fragstorm grenade launcher would open some interesting possibilities) and make a change to Black Knights to let the sergeant take the grenade launcher.

 

Deathwing Assault – now 1CP/2CP. Otherwise unchanged.

 

I’d like to see play tested because Deathwing Assault it becomes a lot more powerful with Combat Doctrines and Bolter Discipline. Bring down 10 terminators with storm bolters during Tactical Doctrine and combo it (reroll auras and/or Fury of the First stratagem). You could have 40 Str4  AP-1 shots with something like a 94% chance to hit and rerolling 1s to wound; you could then do it again in the Shooting phase having spent a total of 4 CP with this change. 

 

Never Forgive, Never Forget! – no change

 

Most of it is the same as Death to Traitors! stratagem from C:SM. We could use the opportunity to change the mechanics and use it to reinforce the Inner Circle and/or Deathwing narrative for characters and terminators.

 

The Lion and the Wolf – no change

 

Great fluff, terrible waste of space with limited stratagems. I’d add “Those who win these legendary duels are marked for greatness” to the end of its fluff description and it gives +1WS +1A +1Ld to a DARK ANGELS INFANTRY model as a straight upgrade. Or use this as either the two warlord trait or the sergeant gets special-issue wargear access. This is the one I’d be most likely to drop in order to add a chaplain upgrade to interrogator-chaplain and give them the fear aura.

 

[jaxom]

Part 7

 

Hunt the Fallen – no change from FAQ version

 

Make a similar change to the end so charge reroll works for CHARACTER, TERMINATOR, and BLACK KNIGHT units and we keep it working even getting rid of DEATHWING and RAVENWING.

 

Weapons from the Dark Age – 1CP, 2CP if more than 5 plasma weapons in the unit

 

 Groovy, but may be unnecessary depending on how one interprets the Blood of Baal stratagem pricing. There are some that scale really well with unit size, but don’t have variable cost.

 

Intractable – 1 CP for Infantry and Bikes. 2CP for vehicles

 

I’m of two minds on this. On one hand, I like the change. On the other hand, I think the original strategy made no sense based on its name and the previous editions of Dark Angels. If I were aiming for something similar, in line with other supplements, and a better narrative fit then I’d make it 2 CP and the unit’s weapons all become Pistol until the beginning of your next turn.

 

[jaxom]

Part 8

 

Speed of the Raven – no change

 

Groovy.

 

 Secret Agenda – no change

 Groovy.

 

Fortress of Shields – Can be used in any phase and lasts until the end of the turn.

 

Replace DEATHWING with TERMINATOR, etc etc. 

 

Ravenwing Attack Squadron – Copied across from Vilgilus. Makes the Vigilus version obsolete.

 

Which one? Assuming we free up stratagem space (with Lion and The Wolf or Stasis Grenade), then we can have both. 

Swift Strike - 2 CP - as per Vigilus, works for BIKE and LAND SPEEDER units.

Signal the Attack - 2 CP - as per Vigilus except, works for BIKE and LAND SPEEDER units, the bonus applies to the entire army.

 

Summon the Deathwing – 2CP Use this Stratagem at the end of the Movement phase. A Deathwing unit may use its Teleport Strike ability to arrive as reinforcements on the battlefield wholly within 6” of a Ravenwing Bike or Ravenwing Attack Bike unit and more than 5” from any enemy models.

 

I’m wary of this because it breaks a major design convention of 8th edition. Bonuses to charge rolls? Sure. Rerolling charge rolls? Sure. Deploying closer than 9” to the enemy? Not so sure. We could easily keep it safe by giving the Terminators something like +2” to charge or reroll charge for 1 CP when on the turn they deploy within 6” of a BIKE.

 

[jaxom]

Part 9 (last part)

 

Salvation Through Suffering – 2 CP Use this stratagem in any phase, when a Dark Angels unit from your army within 3” of an objective marker would lose a wound. Until the end of the phase, roll one D6 for that wound and for each other wound a model in that unit would lose this phase. On a 4+ that wound is not lost.

 

I think it’s too similar to The Shield Unwavering while being much more powerful. I’d take a phrase from the old third edition codex and run with it. No Surrender, No Retreat - 2 CP - Use this Stratagem at the end of your turn. Select one objective mark. Until the start of your next turn, friendly units within 3” of the objective marker automatically pass Morale tests and successfully Overwatch on a roll of 5 or 6.

 

Stasis Grenade

 

See previous comments. We could use the open spot to have a stratagem for upgrading a character 

 

TACTICAL OBJECTIVES

 

It’s late and I’d need to review mission stuff before looking at these in order to give them and your suggestions a fair shake.

 

[Zustiur]

 

Part 1

 I don’t think this is necessary for two reasons. The first is that the supplements never remove options (I’m not sure how to phrase the whole Black Templar/Librarian thing, but I don’t consider that to be equivalent). The second has to do with how we can alter C:SM units (what they are or how they act) using stratagems, warlord traits, and detachment rules.

The existing 6 supplements haven't removed any options, because they haven't needed to. I think going from Codex to Supplement is justification enough to break the pattern for that particular issue.

 

Okay, this one’s a deep dive, so please bear with me. I don’t think it’s a big deal, in the goal of becoming more like a supplement, to remove Deathwing Terminators and Ravenwing Bike/Attack Bike/Land Speeder units. There are other places we can add mechanics and flavor to modify the already existing C:SM units to replace the loss. Already in existence are Skilled Riders stratagem and Intractable stratagem before we even start having to make more. If we look at what our Deathwing and Ravenwing boxes can build, each kit’s existence is still justified by their build options just looking at truly unique units in addition to the units that are in, or similar enough to be replaced by units in, C:SM.

I strongly disagree. Given the history of Codices stretching way back to 2nd edition, I do not see GW merging Deathwing and Ravenwing into standard Terminator or Bike units. I wrote my list of exclusions based on that same tradition. I was stunned when we gained Hunters and Stalkers, but I don't think that is a sign we're suddenly going to replace all of our unique twists on existing units with standard equivalents.

 

The Salamanders supplement suggests we do the opposite; the designers took the flamer paradigm and ran with it. The Dark Angels paradigm started trending to plasma around 4th edition and never stopped. We have, over time, seen the introduction of a super-plasma land speeder, plasma-mantleted bikers, and plasma cannons in tactical squads (in editions where codex tactical squads couldn’t take them) and in our terminator squads.

True enough. I expect plasma-madness will take over and it will indeed be something like +1 to wound with plasma weapons during the Tactical Doctrine. I let my personal desire overrule my intention of matching existing trends.

Part 2....

[Re: Interrogator Chaplain unique datasheet]

I’d drop the Interrogator-Chaplain as a unique datasheet because I think it makes more sense that the model eventually gets dropped (currently “Temporarily out of stock Online”) and consolidated with the generic model. More detail later, but I think Interrogator-Chaplain should be a character upgrade stratagem (the sort where you spend CP before the battle and it gives more stuff to a character). The two litanies per round is the realm of Masters of Sanctity  (iPA: Fire & Fury; I think it’ll be shoe-horned into C:SM eventually)

This, along with many other changes you suggested really rubs me up the wrong way. It's exactly this sort of option removal that drove the tyranid player out of our group. If loss of unique units (or conversion from datasheet to stratagem) is the cost of moving to a Supplement, then I say, long may we continue to be a separate Codex. I find the idea of conversion from unique datasheet to stratagem awful because it severely limits what you can do in your army; both through stratagems of that type often being 'one use per game' and through how quickly we'd run out of CP. I already find that Dark Angels struggle to get as many CP as regular marines due to our fondness for Elites and Fast Attack. I don't want to see the few CP I can get vanish before I even deploy.

 

Shrug, he has the most recent model and is intensely conservative, but it could be a nice change of pace from captains, chapter masters, and librarians. Other special character chaplains have gotten two litanies per round; let’s give it to Asmodai, too.

True, I was forgetting about age of the models. Here's the logic behind my guess:

* Azrael has the lion helm. If the Lion returns, I believe Azrael will lose that relic (and probably die at the same time). I therefore do not see Azrael becoming primaris until the Lion wakes up and I don't think we'll see the Lion before we see Russ or one of the others.

* Ezekiel has the whole 'too busy to get a better bionic' thing going on. Though I'm struggling to find the fluff I remember reading about that.

* Belial is a terminator, there are no primaris equivalents (at least in my view)

* Sammael is mounted, there are no primaris bikes/skimmers yet, though that said, there wasn't a jump pack like Kava'an Shrike's either.

* Sapphon has been forgotten

* Bethor became a generic entry

* Namaan is dead (?). Also, no primaris scouts because they're the same as regular scouts.

 

 

Part 3...

[Re: Deathwing Ancient unique datasheet]

The Death Ancient can be removed  in favor of conformity to C:SM and we end up using the Ancient in Terminator Armor. Ancient on Bike would be the supplement’s version of Ravenwing Ancient. Both should have the same Astartes Banner rule as the other ancients and leave any special effects for relics.

I could see the terminator ancient happening, though their banner rules are vastly different. There is no ancient on bike to merge with, so the unique entry would undoubtedly remain as is. Again, moving rules from datasheets to stratagems or relics doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Re: Legacy of the Lion]

Personally, I think this would be a great place to define the army as Unforgiven; “gain the Unforgiven ability.” Legacy of the Lion is, however, a more similar name to the other doctrine modifying rules.

I prefer 'Legacy of Caliban' as a name, but who knows what they'll call it.

 

[Re: Grim Resolve]I’d give it a little quality of life adjustment similar to other Chapter Tactics between C:SM1 and C:SM2. Basically the same, but you can always reroll 1s on Overwatch so you don’t have to try and remember if the unit moved last turn (this is more of an issue, for me at least, in end game and after I’ve playing for awhile). In addition, or alternatively, to give it the little boost that many other Chapter Tactics got, make the bonus apply to all attacks rather than just shooting (so intractably staying in combat for a second turn, instead of falling back, gives the bonus; I think that’s very narratively appropriate).

That'd be a nice change. Balance-wise, I think Grim Resolve needs a redesign. Other than not needing to support units with a Captain, it's a horribly restrictive rule.

 

 

[Re: Courage of the First Legion]

This trait, Grim Resolve, high leadership, and the Rites of War warlord trait (C:SM, 6” fearless bubble and gain Defender of Humanity) are all part of why I don’t think our terminator units need to be immune to Morale tests if one really wants to push the stubborn angle in how they build their list.

[Re: Master of Manoeuvre]

Here’s another place we could recapture some of that Ravenwing flavor for the C:SM units. Master of Manoeuvre is currently kind of silly in that half its effect (reroll Advance) is useless for bikes (Turbo-boost) and near entirely useless for land speeds (does anyone Advance or Charge with land speeders on a regular basis?). Retain that power by having it also give a 4+ invulnerable save against shooting to bikes and land speeders within 6” that Advanced in the previous Movement phase. Sammael already gets Master of Manoeuvre, you could take it on a Talonmaster, etc.

I don't like Courage of the First Legion, but I doubt we'd see any change to it. Moving Jink to an aura effect around our warlords would be awful. It's hard enough to use now due to the reduction in fire-power. Having to advance AND be near the warlord... we may as well not have it at all.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Zustiur

[Zustiur]

 

Part 5

 

 

RELICS OF THE ROCK

 

I’m just cover most of these in a more free flow manner to simplify things. The supplements all have 7 relics and 8 special-issue wargear. The special-issue wargear always includes Adamantine Mantle, Artificer Armour, Master-Crafted Weapon, Digital Weapons, and one type of bolt ammunition.

 

Foe-Smiter - It has the stats of a master-crafted stormbolter; no need for it to exist with Master-Crafted Weapon in special-issue

 

Shroud of Heroes - C:SM and the supplements are some of the design team’s best work in fitting the narrative and themes of a chapter into its relics. Shroud of Heroes has a nice narrative, but its effects tell me nothing about the chapter’s methods of war. Ghostweave Cloak (C:SM, Phobos only) has the same effect. I’d either redo the effect or drop it.

...

 

SPECIAL-ISSUE WARGEAR

 

Similar approach to the relics. Artificer Armour, Master-Crafted Weapon, and Digital Weapons are a must. That leaves four spots and one must be bolts.

 

Nemesis Bolts - ...

 

Heavenfall Blade - ...

 

Displacer Field -...

Volkite Fusil – ...

 

INTERROMANCY DISCIPLINE

 

Where the changes to bring these in line with the Warp Charge values in the supplements?

 

 

I only have the Fists supplement to compare with. That has 6 relics, not 7. My mistake on the Special Issue, I worked from memory instead of counting.

I was working on the assumption that they'll be lazy and re-use existing relics where possible but you raise some good points.

Foe-Smiter could become Assault 4, D2 like Dorn's Arrow.

Shroud of Heroes; I see this as a 'we have old stuff'. It's like the cloaks the Custodes use in the Blood Games. I forget the name of it I'm afraid.

I didn't realize they all have unique bolts. Nemesis bolts sound about right. It'd either be non-vehicles or something focussed on Characters (to emphasize hunting the fallen). I associate 'nemesis' with Grey Knights/Daemon hunters though. Perhaps another name is required.

 

I hadn't thought about the overlap between burning blade and Heavenfall/Blades of Caliban. Hmm. We are highly associated with swords though, so I still feel a sword is appropriate. Perhaps it could be a D3 sword? S6, D3 and keep the extra attack.

 

I lifted the Displacer Field from the 6th edition codex. I think we'd be likely to see the return of old relics rather than introduction of new ones. I went with 'consolidate in any direction' as a simple way of mimicking its old scatter effect.

 

Good catch on the volkite, we wouldn't get that due to the weapon swap issue. I was struggling to think of another item to get up to 6 special issue items. I have no idea how to get up to 8 unless the sacred standards became Special Issue instead (not my preference, but I could see it happening).

 

The warp charge changes were a combination of matching existing supplements and deliberate balance buff. I genuinely believe we have one of the weakest disciplines currently. I'd take the standard powers instead if I could. Dropping the warp charge would be necessary for me to consider Interromancy, especially with the ones that require another roll after passing the psychic test.

 

 

Deathwing Assault – now 1CP/2CP. Otherwise unchanged.

 

I’d like to see play tested because Deathwing Assault it becomes a lot more powerful with Combat Doctrines and Bolter Discipline. Bring down 10 terminators with storm bolters during Tactical Doctrine and combo it (reroll auras and/or Fury of the First stratagem). You could have 40 Str4  AP-1 shots with something like a 94% chance to hit and rerolling 1s to wound; you could then do it again in the Shooting phase having spent a total of 4 CP with this change. 

 

Never Forgive, Never Forget! – no change

 

Most of it is the same as Death to Traitors! stratagem from C:SM. We could use the opportunity to change the mechanics and use it to reinforce the Inner Circle and/or Deathwing narrative for characters and terminators.

The Lion and the Wolf – no change

 

Great fluff, terrible waste of space with limited stratagems. I’d add “Those who win these legendary duels are marked for greatness” to the end of its fluff description and it gives +1WS +1A +1Ld to a DARK ANGELS INFANTRY model as a straight upgrade. Or use this as either the two warlord trait or the sergeant gets special-issue wargear access. This is the one I’d be most likely to drop in order to add a chaplain upgrade to interrogator-chaplain and give them the fear aura.

Very good catch on Deathwing Assault combined with Fury of the First. I have to admit to ignorance on a lot of the generic marine stratagems as I only play primaris in my Crimson Fists, so many of those strats are useless to me. With the ability to combine them, the current 2/3 CP is appropriate, but then, I don't imagine GW thinking that through either...

 

Hadn't noticed the similarity of Never Forget and Death to the Traitors. Hmm. Make it Deathwing Only and activate on 4+ vs Heretic Astartes. Cannot be paired with Death to Traitors.

 

I doubt Lion and the Wolf will change, unless it becomes the name of the Sgt Special Issue Wargear strat. I'm pretty sure all of the supplements have at least one fluff based dud like this. For example Fists have full rerolls in melee vs Iron Warriors and +1 to wound buildings.

 

 

Part 7

Intractable – 1 CP for Infantry and Bikes. 2CP for vehicles

 

I’m of two minds on this. On one hand, I like the change. On the other hand, I think the original strategy made no sense based on its name and the previous editions of Dark Angels. If I were aiming for something similar, in line with other supplements, and a better narrative fit then I’d make it 2 CP and the unit’s weapons all become Pistol until the beginning of your next turn.

How about this;

Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase, when a Dark Angels unit is within 1" of an enemy unit. Until the end of the phase, that units may fire its weapons as though it were not within 1" of the enemy unit. It is still unable to select enemy units that are within 1" any units from your army.

It needs better wording but the idea is to flat out ignore being locked in combat, shoot anyway and then still have to fight as normal.

 

 

Ravenwing Attack Squadron – Copied across from Vilgilus. Makes the Vigilus version obsolete.

 

Which one? Assuming we free up stratagem space (with Lion and The Wolf or Stasis Grenade), then we can have both. 

Swift Strike - 2 CP - as per Vigilus, works for BIKE and LAND SPEEDER units.

Signal the Attack - 2 CP - as per Vigilus except, works for BIKE and LAND SPEEDER units, the bonus applies to the entire army.

 

Summon the Deathwing – 2CP Use this Stratagem at the end of the Movement phase. A Deathwing unit may use its Teleport Strike ability to arrive as reinforcements on the battlefield wholly within 6” of a Ravenwing Bike or Ravenwing Attack Bike unit and more than 5” from any enemy models.

 

I’m wary of this because it breaks a major design convention of 8th edition. Bonuses to charge rolls? Sure. Rerolling charge rolls? Sure. Deploying closer than 9” to the enemy? Not so sure. We could easily keep it safe by giving the Terminators something like +2” to charge or reroll charge for 1 CP when on the turn they deploy within 6” of a BIKE.

I was thinking of Signal the Attack and accidentally called it Ravenwing Attack Squadron.

There are already units which can deep strike closer than 9". I see no issue with being able to do this under such restricted circumstances. Make it 7" if you like, that way it's functionally equivalent to +2 to charge rolls for a lot if situations.

 

 

Part 9 (last part)

 

Salvation Through Suffering – 2 CP Use this stratagem in any phase, when a Dark Angels unit from your army within 3” of an objective marker would lose a wound. Until the end of the phase, roll one D6 for that wound and for each other wound a model in that unit would lose this phase. On a 4+ that wound is not lost.

 

I think it’s too similar to The Shield Unwavering while being much more powerful. I’d take a phrase from the old third edition codex and run with it. No Surrender, No Retreat - 2 CP - Use this Stratagem at the end of your turn. Select one objective mark. Until the start of your next turn, friendly units within 3” of the objective marker automatically pass Morale tests and successfully Overwatch on a roll of 5 or 6.

I lifted that from the White Dwarf article.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Zustiur

[jaxom]

Groovy, I misunderstood. The expectation is that the Dark Angel supplement would have to inherently go a bit further than the current ones; it would be more like the the 3rd edition supplement in organization?

[Bryan Blaire]

I think if the C:DA were to go back to a Supplement to the C:SM, it would have to inherently go farther than current Supplements to make it all work.

 

While I'd be just fine with that happening, I don't think it really will and I don't believe that there would actually be anything truly gained by that happening except an extra book for us to buy, boosting GW in the wallet department.

[ValourousHeart]

Personally I like the idea of all Marines becoming supplements to C:SM.  How often in editions past have we been frustrated by not having access to new units that the SM codex got.  Or points and upgrade options.  I still believe we have a fully fleshed out book with lore and unique units even if we get changed to a supplement.

 

I'm just going to address these points.

JINK

If this unit Advances, it gains a 4+ invulnerable save against all shooting attacks until the start of your next Movement phase. In addition if this unit Advances, it treats bolters and plasma talons as Assault weapons until the end of the turn.

 

* Sammael On Corvex replaces Plasma Cannon with Heavy Plasma Cannon

* Plasma Talons switch to Rapid Fire 2

* Plasma storm battery becomes heavy 2d6, and only does a single mortal wound for overheat. Delete the clause about not being able to use it for the rest of the battle. I see it as an on par alternative to the Marco Plasma Incinerator with lower strength and AP, but higher damage. Also, there’s clearly two barrels on the model, hence 2d6.

* The Nephilim Jetfighter could take a leaf out of the Stormhawk's book; +1 to hit units that Fly. -1 to be hit by units that Fly. Either that, or change its fluff to say 'ground attack' instead of 'air superiority'.

 

GRIM RESOLVE

You can re-roll all hit rolls of 1 for this unit whenever it shoots (including when firing Overwatch) so long as it did not move in its prior Movement phase.

In addition, this unit can never lose more than one model as the result of any single failed Morale test.

 

LEGACY OF THE LION

Whilst the Devastator Doctrine is active, you can re-roll hit rolls in the Shooting phase for a unit which did not move in its prior Movement phase. (i.e. all hits instead of just 1s but not in overwatch).

Whilst the Tactical Doctrine is active, units with the Ravenwing keyword can re-roll all hit rolls of 1 when they shoot (including when firing Overwatch).

Whilst the Assault Doctrine is active, units with the Deathwing keyword can re-roll all hit rolls of 1 in the Fight phase.

 

Alternative suggestion: Whilst the Tactical Doctrine is active, you gain 1 Command Point at the start of the Battle Round. Note that this counts against the 1 per Battle Round limit for Brilliant Strategist.

 

JINK - Personally I think JINK and Icon of Old Caliban have their rules reversed.  JINK in 2nd edition made RW units harder to hit not harder to kill.  Also it only required that we move just a little, it did not require that we give up shooting.  We also had a little thing back then called Skilled Rider that let us ignore penalties for moving and shooting.

 

If everyone is insistent on keeping JINK as an invulnerable save, then we should change the rule to match SKILLED RIDER from C:SM with a minor change.  SKILLED RIDER in C:SM is a stratagem, whereas JINK should remain a rule on our datacard.  As such add a minimum move requirement to activate.  Require RW units to move more than half of their move characteristic and they gain a 4++.  If they advance JINK improves to a 3++.  Alternatively the minimum move requirement could be a set distance instead of half the move characteristic similar to how flyers have a set minimum move distance.

 

 

GRIM RESOLVE - Should have an * for RW and DW.

If RW units move less than half their move characteristic they count as stationary for the purposes of GRIM RESOLVE and shooting heavy weapons.

DW units always count as stationary when chosen to shoot in the shooting phase, unless they advanced.

 

 

 

CORVEX - should only suffer 1MW.

 

VENGEANCE - Either replace the plasma storm battery with 2 heavy plasma cannons, or keep plasma storm batter profile and remove the weapon cannot be fired clause.  I think that the higher minimum rate of fire is better than the higher minimum damage, but I'll leave that up to you guys.

 

 

NEPHILIM JETFIGHTER - Might be easier to just make the weapons rapid fire or assault.

* I feel that this will fix most vehicles in the game that people expect to move and shoot.  And we know this concept works because of all the example we have in non-imperial/chaos codexes.  In fact it is only Imperial and Chaos codexes that insist on using the same weapon profile for both man-portable weapons and similar weapons mounted on vehicles.

 

 

DOCTRINES - From what I've seen from the other supplements they get 1 thing that effects their whole army during 1 DOCTRINE.  So I don't think we should get something for everyone during each of the DOCTRINES.  A chapter should prefer to be in a single DOCTRINE.

 

DA are supposed to be tactical geniuses, so it would make sense to me that we would get to freely switch between the DOCTRINES each turn.  At the start of each turn we get to pick which DOCTRINE is in effect.  No requirement to go in a specific order.  In addition to that we could have a Stratagem 1CP/3CP - Pick 1 unit (1CP), that unit gets the benefit of a 2nd DOCTRINE this turn.  For 3CP you can select a 2nd unit, both units benefit from the same 2nd DOCTRINE.

 

 

*EDIT*

MASTER OF MANOEUVRE - This warlord trait isn't bad for GW units, but it is next to useless for RW units.  Not sure if getting rid of this WT is the right solutions because I can see it does have some use and benefit.  It just doesn't make sense for Corvex or Sableclaw.  I'm wondering if Sammie wouldn't be better off with just a +3 inch to his auras.  Chalk it up to having better communications gear on both of his rides.

Edited December 9, 2019 by ValourousHeart