Argent Shroud Retributors / Mortifiers

[Kastor Krieg]

Have the codex but haven't been able to browse it yet. Coming off this:
https://nightsatthegametable.com/blog/2019/11/25/new-adepta-sororitas-sisters-of-battle-codex-review/

Argent Shroud: When a unit with this conviction Advances, in can fire ranged weapons as if it has moved without Advancing.

6" Move Retributors, thus Advancing 12" and firing with no penalty, with four 24" threat range Heavy Flamers, two Armorium Cherubs to permit two models firing twice... or four 36" threat range Multi Meltas, two of which fire twice. Yikes.

Same for a unit of max FOUR Mortifiers with two Heavy Flamers each, mere 56 pts per model, 18" Advance, 8" range = 26" threat range on heavy flamers.

Double yikes? :o

[Commander Dawnstar]

Sadly Mortifiers don't benefit from Order Convictions as they don't have an Order keyword.

[Kastor Krieg]

Oh, well, OK. Like I said, didn't delve into the dex yet. But the point on Argent Retributors with multimeltas or heavy flamers stands, they can ridiculously extend the threat range and that can surprise people.

[Lemondish]

Oh, well, OK. Like I said, didn't delve into the dex yet. But the point on Argent Retributors with multimeltas or heavy flamers stands, they can ridiculously extend the threat range and that can surprise people.

Absolutely, though I'm thinking it likely more efficient to run 2 multi-melta with 2 cherubs in 2 separate squads to spread the threats.

 

How many ablative bodies are normally included in these units?

[Kastor Krieg]

It's a 5-10 unit. You can have 0-2 Cherubs per unit, no need to spread them thin. If you want to min max, I'd do 2+ units of "Superior + 2 bolters + 2 m-meltas", with 2 Cherubs per unit, so that the m-meltas fire 4 times.

[Atrus]

Sadly Mortifiers don't benefit from Order Convictions as they don't have an Order keyword.

But they do get to benefit from Sacred Rights yes? Those fails with passion or divine guidance sound nice.

[taikishi]

Just double-checked my copy of the Codex. Mortifiers don't have Acts of Faith, Shield of Faith, Sacred Rites, Zealot or an <Order>.

[1126PLL]

My Argent Shroud Retributors will be 2 squads of 10, with 4 MMs each, a Simulacrum, and the neato thinger with the cherubim.

I will also have 1 with 4 Heavy Flamers. No Cherubim though.

Edited November 30, 2019 by 1126PLL

[ERJAK]

They're not bad but like...you're still just shooting multi-meltas and heavy flamers. Investing a huge amount of points in them is a hard sell when you stop to think about the fact that IH devastator squads are out their with 54" range Ap-4 Lascannons with native reroll 1s to hit and still not getting taken.

 

Reclusiarch Kriegs idea is how much I would really want to invest, though I must say my mind definitely rebels at the idea of having a unit that's only really worth shooting once per game.

 

Also mortifiers with 2 heavy flamers are 64pts not 56, in addition to no rites, no zealot, no Conviction, no SoF.

 

Even still, morifiers are great on paper and I hope they turn out to be good on the table.

[1126PLL]

They're not bad but like...you're still just shooting multi-meltas and heavy flamers. Investing a huge amount of points in them is a hard sell when you stop to think about the fact that IH devastator squads are out their with 54" range Ap-4 Lascannons with native reroll 1s to hit and still not getting taken.

 

Reclusiarch Kriegs idea is how much I would really want to invest, though I must say my mind definitely rebels at the idea of having a unit that's only really worth shooting once per game.

 

Also mortifiers with 2 heavy flamers are 64pts not 56, in addition to no rites, no zealot, no Conviction, no SoF.

 

Even still, morifiers are great on paper and I hope they turn out to be good on the table.

I don't think you're giving Multi-Meltas enough credit really. IH Devastators with lascannons are far more expensive than Rets, making running them as a unit of 10 much harder (and therefore they're considerably less durable). It's not a "huge amount of points" in Rets. It's like 200-odd, for a 10 girl squad with 4 multimeltas that can advance and shoot with no penalty and have some pretty fantastic stratagems and supporting rules.

 

Plus, they don't have the mobility that the Rets have (they can't advance and shoot).

 

Plus, they can't get 2d6/highest for damage.

 

Plus, they can't get +1 damage.

 

Plus, they can't automagically restore a multi-melta without rolling, and the Apothecary that does it (with a roll) is expensive compared to the hospitaller.

 

Plus, they can't make any of the damage dice an auto-6.

 

Plus, they have other options, which is perhaps the most crucial point. What else do you suggest for anti-tank? the new 170 point Exorcist? pfft.

Edited November 30, 2019 by 1126PLL

[CaptainMarsh]

Mortifiers may not be able to benefit from Order, Acts of Faith, or Sacred Rites, but they are an Adepta Sororitas model and can thus Advance and Charge for 1 CP. Not a bad day at all.

[tvih]

Comparing retris to marine devastators in terms of validity is indeed a bit of a fool's errand since marines can indeed take a million other things instead, while we lack the options to do so.

 

I'm not sold on the 2 MM units some are suggesting though, considering using stuff like Storm of Retribution for just two weapons instead of four seems inefficient.

[Purifying Tempest]

I'm thinking one or two maxed units of mortifiers (4 or 6 each, who knows...) storming up the field with all those heavy bolters mixed with some over-the-shoulder type support would be a scary thing to deal with.  I think Rets coming in behind them, probably decently far behind them, lobbing melta shots forward would be a bit of icing to deal with the few units those mortifiers aren't threatening sufficiently.  I highly doubt your opponent is going to be able to ignore the Mortifiers, and it leaves a bigger void in his targeting priority for those Rets to squeeze in a few rounds before they're the priority.  Can also toss in a couple of ablative bodies + Hospitaller if you want to protect that investment (and/or want to spend more points to do so...).

 

Also, not that I've seen lots of Devastators in IH silliness, I don't keep up a terrible amount, but I didn't think their anti-tank was coming from Devastators...

 

Even then, for 2CP you can make your Retributors probably just flat out better for the round, unless T8 with an invulnerable (aka: Knights) are your target.  And then, at the end of the day, Devastators can't threaten silly damage hits with Miracle Dice lurking around.  It may not happen or be in your plan, but I'm sure your opponent will take notice of your stock of MD when those melta hits start sliding through... especially if Storm of Retribution is active on that squad, and god forbid you have a Dialogus lurking around, too.  There's way too many ways to alter MD.

 

All that said, Argent Shroud is probably not the conviction you want for this.  Ebon Chalice, Sacred Rose, and Valorous Heart would probably be a lot better for this tactic, quite possibly in that order.  Shout out to Valorous Heart if you play in Alaitoc flier spam meta.  Pretty sure they'd think that crap was "cute" at best.