First game and assessments.

[Nichodemus10]

I played my first game with the new sister codex last night. Battled with the Dark Eldar/Yannari and was completely slaughtered though upon assessment we think that he was rolling hot and I was rolling poor which exacerbated the problem, but still seemed prevalent.

 

For my list I didn't do too much to build with the new mechanics, and just took the models that I already had to make a brigade (oops, we counted it as a brigade, but I only had 2 HQs). 1751 points (kind of him to let me go over).

 

Canoness (relic pistol, blessed weapon)

Celetine and two Geminae

 

Hospitaller

Mistress

Repentia (two squads of five)

 

6 Battle sister squads: (10 person 1HB 2SB, 10 person 3SB, 5 person 2 flamers, (2)5 person 3 SB, 5 person no upgrades.

 

2 Seraphim Squads (a 10 and a five person with 4 inferno, power weapon and plasma pistol)

5 Dominion Squad (4 melta guns)

 

Exorcist (conflagration rockets)

Retributors (2 five person, 4 multi Meltas, 4 Heavy Bolters)

 

Rhino

Immolator.

 

Game assessments of and units.

Canoness: Seemed good, but wasn't ever in a position to do anything special. Re-rolling ones was good, though I positioned her poorly and didn't get to use this as well as I needed. I miss being able to take a combi plasma and putting near my Retributors though...that does seem like an issue).

 

Celestine: She seems the same, miss having the Geminae with her as she made an 8 in charge and they missed it which sucks hard.

 

Hospitaler: Stood by the Retributors and recovered a multi-melta...which covers her points back...Seems like something I might want another of.

 

Mistress and Repentia: So I forgot that they have a 5+ feel not pain save so... Without it, and I am believing even with it, I do not understand how these ladies cost more than Genestealers per model. If you castle up around them to get their invulnerable up to a 4+ sure, but that is going to take a relic and a lot of points...Just did not seem worth it to me though I will try again.

 

Battle Sisters: These seemed fine. I do think I want some 5 person units with a multimelta as I felt I could really shoot down some infantry, but struggled to crack open the venoms and raiders that the tasty morsels were hiding in. In the future I will be dropping the heavy bolter as storm bolters seem better as my sisters seemed to be on the move, and often in close range.

 

Seraphim: These ladies are still good, I had some die early to a ridiculous set of saves (missed 4 out of five on the first volley of fire on the five person squad). I should have deep stuck them as getting the inferno shots off of the deepstrike stratagem seems like it would be good now).

 

Dominions: These ended up not being worth it, in the future I will be replacing them with another unit of Seraphim. Not being able to scoot up with their tank is just poor, so they ran up, fired at a tank on turn one; it made its invulnerable saves, and then my unit died.

 

Exorcist: Was shooting at Venoms and Raiders all night, and my dice were poor. Scored 0 wounds. I will try again and likely use the stratagem to get a reasonable number of shots, 

 

Retributors: Multmeltas were good, Heavy Bolters, just did not preform as well as I would have liked, and seemed redundant with the sisters that I did have so I would switch them to MultiMeltas in the future.

 

I took Sacred Rose which did seem good, though I regret no taking Ardent shroud as advancing and shooting would have been really good. (though overwatch on a 5+ is also really good).

 

I got +3 on deny tests, and re-roll moral checks; which both seem on the pretty low end...I think if I had Spirit of the Martyr or Devine Guidance these would have seemed good. (Though spirit of the Martyr seems really time consuming)

 

My Wishlisting after playing Dark Eldar which seems like they have the things that I want...

Rhinos need to come down in points...Or we need a venom like transport to scurry our sisters around the table. I think I would like to bring 4 rhinos to protect my sisters, but at 250 points that just isn't due able if you want to have any command points.

Repentia need a reminder tag on them that they have feel no pain...or at least I need to remember this in the future. I still think these need a 2 point reduction in cost.

Geminae need to share a charge roll with Celestine...I think it would be easy to fit in that if they are within 3" of her and she makes a charge roll they should be able to use the same charge roll if charging the same unit.

Canoness needs her Combi weapon back...I just miss it soo much.

 

Otherwise I did think the Codex seemed good, On a day one read and play I missed several of the stratagems that could have been useful, and think that there is promise in the dex which was sorely lacking in the Betadex.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shard of Magnus]

Any first impressions of miracle dice from the game? I’m curious on your experience vs the theoretical discussions that have been going on.

[ERJAK]

Any first impressions of miracle dice from the game? I’m curious on your experience vs the theoretical discussions that have been going on.

Also which interpretation he went with. Because my heart says multidice but my sense of practicality says assume the weaker option so I'm not left flat footed if they DO go with single dice.

[Nichodemus10]

Yeah. I meant to write about miracle dice.

They were good, but I feel that I under used them. Also my miracle dice were consistently good rolls. (I think I had 2,3,5,5,6,6).

I ended up not using them as often as I should. Mostly trying to save them for damage rolls, then not using them when in full damage range of a multi melta. Using the fives to hit on overwatch was nice with special weapons.

I wish I could have used them for number of shots though... That is the time I really need a miracle roll...

The two was nice for moral, so it did seem like every number did have some value as a roll.

[CaptainMarsh]

As a note for your BSS: The Sister Superior can no longer take a Storm Bolter

Edited November 30, 2019 by CaptainMarsh

[Nichodemus10]

As a note for your BSS: The Sister Superior can no longer take a Storm Bolter

Well that is terrible news...I guess its time to start modeling chain swords and hand flamers.

[ERJAK]

 

As a note for your BSS: The Sister Superior can no longer take a Storm Bolter

Well that is terrible news...I guess its time to start modeling chain swords and hand flamers.

 

This is not technically true, actually. As long as the index options stay legal, as per GW's index option flow chart; or they forget to put SB on superiors into legends, you can absolutely still take stormbolters on sister superiors

Edited December 1, 2019 by ERJAK

[Kros Morotho]

"The Sister Superior can no longer take a Storm Bolter"

____________________________________________________

 

Dang.

 

What _can_ she take, then?

Edited December 1, 2019 by Kros Morotho

[ERJAK]

"The Sister Superior can no longer take a Storm Bolter"

____________________________________________________

 

Dang.

 

What _can_ she take, then?

Still a stormbolter until the indexes hit legends. After that I would take anything because your next best option is a combi-flamer an those are terrible.

[CaptainMarsh]

 

As a note for your BSS: The Sister Superior can no longer take a Storm Bolter

Well that is terrible news...I guess its time to start modeling chain swords and hand flamers.

 

 

* A bevy of combi-weapons, condemnor and boltgun and bolt pistol in replacement of the boltgun.

* Replace a bolt pistol with a...bolt pistol, hand flamer, plasma pistol, inferno pistol.

* Can take a melee weapon (Chainsword, Power Maul, Power Sword) separate or in exchange for the boltgun.

 

The index gives more options. That should remain legal *forever*, imho. Legends will likely move datasheets that only exist in the index and likewise over. I doubt wargear option-differentiating datasheets that exist in a codex and the index will be what we see ported into Legends.

 

Nonetheless, I am slowly but surely reworking my squads to relieve my Sister Superiors of their Storm Bolters.

 

 

[tvih]

Flowchart hasn't been allowed in a lot of places ever since it came out, never mind now that it's ancient already. Relying on it - or Legends - for anything at all is not a good idea.

[Purifying Tempest]

I hate that I am even advocating for this... but if you're looking for an "open-topped" transport much in the fashion of raiders or venoms... look at the Forge World Repressor.  It isn't exactly the same, but I think it will provide what you're looking for in terms of an armored box to shoot out of.  I personally dislike the tactic, and I have my reasons, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it is what you're looking for... and as of yet has not been legend'd out of the game, as far as we all know.

 

I think Dominions are going to take A LOT of adjusting to try to figure out a new battlefield role for them.  Losing the ability to scoot their transports up the field has been a massive blow to the unit, especially with nothing in return, not even a point decrease on the model.  This is my speculation here, but I think a squad of 10 Sacred Rose Dominions MAY have a role in the game if they're all kitted with Storm Bolters, and probably even more worth adding that this should shake up some primaris guys as well.

 

Scout move (can you advance since it is 1) pregame, and 2) treated as if it was the movement phase?)

turn 1 gives you a little more distance if you need to position better.  I wouldn't draw too near his lines, just hit that rapid fire range on a front-line unit.

Pop Blessed Bolts and The Emperor's Judgment to give you -2 AP, 2 Damage storm bolter shots (should be 16 of them), and then 12 more boltgun shots, and everything scores an additional hit on a 6.

 

I don't think the above trick will work very well on anything that isn't marine-tier garbage, but it is at least worth noting that it should do a fancy number on some infiltrators or intercessors early on.  But they have to be Sacred Rose to use The Emperor's Judgment, but I like that the stratagem includes all bolt weapons... something I think Blessed Bolts should have been extended to.

 

I know Heavy Bolter Retributors used to be an auto-include in the army, and I'm kind of disappointed that they've seemed to have fallen a tier in the codex.. and even their option with Storm of Retribution feels weak.  Heavy Flamer and Multimelta Retributors definitely got the better end of that whole deal.  That being said, I am liking how good those other two weapons are looking in the codex.  I think the Multimelta favor just about anything not named Argent Shroud or Ebon Chalice, but I still think both are standing a bit over the heavy bolter... especially if you stock up on Mortifiers who have them by default and treat them as assault even without the Argent Shroud conviction.  By the way, I think Mortifiers are going to be really good.

 

I've been putting a good bit of thought into Sacred Rose over the past day and see some things, just not had the chance to play them out to see if those things are really worth anything.

 

I keep peering at the Canoness with a bit of curiosity.  I've never really loaded them up with options, I always felt that their true strength is their cost.  Strapping her up with a bunch of options always felt like I was missing the point.  I typically ran naked (like boltgun + chainsword style) or with an Inferno Pistol + Power Sword to upgrade to the Blade of Admonition.  This seems to have gone by the wayside in the Codex, since she's being forced to take mandatory upgrades (ie: Boltgun + Power sword = mandatory Rod of Office and a 5 point tax for it).  I will likely go with a back-line Canoness to support my Rets/Exorcists with, she'll probably have a Boltgun + Power sword so she does get the Rod of Office for 54 points total, maybe toss the Inferno Pistol on her, points permitting (61 with the pistol).  Then probably kit out another Canoness very similarly to advance with her troops and mid-field units, this one would be more likely to have an Inferno Pistol since she'll be more likely to tangle with the bad guys, but this one is likely the one to have stuff like the Null Rod, but I can't really speculate here because I've not made the army.  Then the assault canoness will probably be equipped to support the front lines with some sort of shock weapon (blade of admonition, other relics).  I'll probably be playing double BN at the worst, with Celestine occupying the 4th HQ.

 

Also, you got like the WORST two Sacred Rites against Dark Eldar since they're not bringing any psykers and morale is probably the weakest phase of the game to tinker with.  I would have been trying to swap those out early with Battle Rites.

 

Sorry, just rambling some of my thoughts out in the open.  I've not been known to have the best of ideas, but I have them none-the-less.  Glad you enjoyed the codex, though!  It doesn't look super-star tier, but it looks at the very least like it will be fun to play.  At least I won't have to worry about running my friends off for playing it (oh, hi, Index rules)!

[Kros Morotho]

 

Nonetheless, I am slowly but surely reworking my squads to relieve my Sister Superiors of their Storm Bolters.

 

 

 

 

 

I guess I'll be doing the same. 

​What are the recommendations?

Edited December 1, 2019 by Kros Morotho

[Slasher956]

Question on the doms scout move.... is it before or after you know who’s going first ..inc seize rolls?

[Lemondish]

If Heavy Bolter Retributors were a good pick before, and they only got better, how is everyone so down on them?

[ERJAK]

Question on the doms scout move.... is it before or after you know who’s going first ..inc seize rolls?

They've never once clarified it so...dealers choice.

[ERJAK]

If Heavy Bolter Retributors were a good pick before, and they only got better, how is everyone so down on them?

They weren't that great of a pick before, tbh. They were decent for a dirt cheap anti-infantry option, but their output is just so incredibly low that they'll always be more of a slot filler than an actually strong unit. The 5pt nerf pretty much wiped out the benefit of move and shoot as well.

 

And as for the 'no flowchart' people, it's been allowed in every major event in north america, so if you're in NA you're fine, and you will DEFINITELY continue to use SBs on sister superiors until the last possible moment because losing them is a pretty massive army wide nerf. There's not really anything you could spend those 2-18 points on that would be more effective than a boatload of Stormbolters.

Edited December 1, 2019 by ERJAK

[Lemondish]

 

 

If Heavy Bolter Retributors were a good pick before, and they only got better, how is everyone so down on them?

They weren't that great of a pick before, tbh. They were decent for a dirt cheap anti-infantry option, but their output is just so incredibly low that they'll always be more of a slot filler than an actually strong unit.

Hmm...okay, if you say so.

[Kros Morotho]

With their ability to move and fire said Heavy Bolters, could they not provide a decent screen for a foot-slogging Buff-Canoness?

[ERJAK]

 

 

Nonetheless, I am slowly but surely reworking my squads to relieve my Sister Superiors of their Storm Bolters.

 

 

 

 

 

I guess I'll be doing the same. 

​What are the recommendations?

 

There aren't any, at least not for BSS. The pistols and combi-weapons are all terrible in comparison. 

[Lemondish]

I'm starting to think this thread is just becoming another negativity parade. Anybody else have an opinion?

 

ERJAK, your passion is one thing, but the utter disdain and disgust you hold for Sisters really makes me think you're a tad too biased to be a source of knowledge. How have your games gone? What style meta do you play in? I challenge you to say one good thing about this army

[ERJAK]

With their ability to move and fire said Heavy Bolters, could they not provide a decent screen for a foot-slogging Buff-Canoness?

That's a possibility.

 

HB retributors will never be a bad option, they're just more about utility, affordability, and being one of the few units in the army that can score a backfield objective while dealing damage down field.  Filling out a brigade with a unit or two of them is great and they'll be pretty tough to shift in valorous heart with a 4++.

[ERJAK]

I'm starting to think this thread is just becoming another negativity parade. Anybody else have an opinion?

 

ERJAK, your passion is one thing, but the utter disdain and disgust you hold for Sisters really makes me think you're a tad too biased to be a source of knowledge. How have your games gone? What style meta do you play in? I challenge you to say one good thing about this army , and wonder if maybe you can start thinking from the perspective of somebody who doesn't have a hard-on for winning LVO.

 

Hope to see or hear some more game experiences because all this theoryhammer is getting tiresome.

I don't hold disdain or disgust for Sisters, I just don't believe that thinking everything is rainbows and puppy dogs automatically makes it so. It's not MY fault you're afraid of reality.

 

Also, I don't appreciate the way you lie to people, especially new players, tricking them into investing their time and money into things that they're going to be disappointed with. It's one thing to look at the game from a more casual perspective, it's another thing entirely to actively spread disinformation the way you do.

 

This is a math game. Some things are facts. Whether you want to win LVO or not doesn't change the fact that a Retributors squad with 4 heavy bolters and a canoness reroll barely kills 1.5 intercessors on average.

[tvih]

While it's just one instance and a casual game, just yesterday while I was testing my first game with the marine codex in the table next to me Sisters handed a pretty decisive defeat to a bunch of Chaos Marines Dark Angels :P I'm planning on trying to get a 1000pt game of my own with the Sisters in the next week or so, if I can get my haphazard Dominion Squad sorted (painted). Or just drop 'em and a Canoness for Celestine... who knows! Regardless, my HB Retris will certainly be featured. They might not be the most amazing unit ever to exist but so what, few units are.

[Purifying Tempest]

HB Rets WERE good because a lot of our other options were worse, or we could do the job of the flamers/melta better elsewhere.

 

All Rets got a buff, but the HB ones got the least. As well.

 

Dominions are no longer the anti-tank specialists they once were, and Mortifiers are fairly good with heavy bolters. Like, we have tons of ways to get heavy boltera, which simply devalues them a lot more.

 

I think HB Rets simply aren't answering a question anymore, which makes them fairly weak. Exorcists well likely fill that backfield role, and help fill the gap left by dominions. I think also there is space for flamer and melta Retributors, as well. But I think HB will be falling out of grace... which is a good thing, because it means we have BETTER options.

 

Also, HB Rets were really good back when they could double tap with index AOF, that has been murdered. They've been shedding value since.